Double Elimination

[texas23]

Young was injured during the match, his arm was basically dangling, and somehow won the match with one good arm.

 

Reguardless, the format is flawed and needs some serious correction.

 

maybe that is why the score was so close, Young was injured.

[fiscon]

Well said YouthCoach, I believe you are on track......The bottom line is, this is the High School State Championship, with 32man brackets, there is going to be wrestlers who draw a bad position and could easily be eliminated due to the luck of the draw......you eliminate the luck of the draw by using the double elimination tournament. Someone needs to wake up and give these Tennessee HS wrestlers a chance to prove their selves. Some not so qualified wrestlers are slipping through the gaps and some better wrestlers are getting shafted due to this system.

 

I have decided to weigh in because I have been involved in the proposal that was put forth by Coach Blair of Brentwood, he mapped out a plan that would work with the current 32 man bracket and the 3 day format that is already in place using the double elimination format, the schedule he formulated did not have the kids wrestling to midnight, it is doable but something seems to be standing in the way. The proposal was sent to Ronnie Carter. Joe has worked on this proposal each of the last 3 to 4 years and has presented it to TSSAA in written format at least twice.

 

As for Indiana where I wrestled and coached before coming to Tennessee, they have the following format:

 

Sectionals - They have 32 Sectionals with 8 to 12 teams in each Sectional - Top 4 from Double Elimination bracket advance to the Regional

 

Regional - 16 Regionals - 8 man Double Elimination Bracket- Top 3 advance to Semi State

 

Semi State - 4 Semi States - 12 man Double Elimination Bracket - #1 in Regionals receive bye- Top 4 go to state

 

State - 16 man bracket - Friday/Saturday - Losers Friday night are eliminated. Winners Friday night advance to placing bracket Quaterfinal losers wrestle, winners wrestle for 5th, losers wrestle for 7th, Semifinal losers wrestle for 3rd- placing to 8. .

 

Just weighing in.

[fiscon]

I have a suggestion, and it will probably be unpopular, but I will present it anyway:

Have the current 10 Regional tournaments with the top 4 advancing to a Semistate. There will be 5 Semistates combining the Regions closest to each other, IE

Region 1 & 2 - Semi State 1

Region 3 & 4 - Semi State 2

Region 5 & 6 - Semi State 3

Region 7 & 8 - Semi State 4

Region 9 & 10 - Semi State 5

 

Each Semi State advances their top 3 placers to the State tournament. This makes the state bracket at 15.

 

The 16th man is added by a rotating assignment of Semi States on a yearly basis, IE

 

103 - Semi State 1

112- Semi State 2

119 - Semi state 3

125- Semi State 4

130 - Semi State 5

135 - Semi State 1

140 - Semi State 2

145 - Semi State 3

152 - Semi State 4

160 - Semi State 5

171 - Semi State 1

189 - Semi State 2

215 - Semi State 3

285 - Semi State 4

 

Or have the 5 4th place finishers come and wrestle a 5 man round robin on Thursday with the winner being the 16th man into the bracket.(I like this better, but not sure if it would fly).

 

The 16 man State bracket will be full Double Elimination to 8th place.Just a suggestion.

 

You could run the Thursday schedule for the Wrestle in matches, or start the 16 man double elimination matches on Thursday, however you could complete the 16 man in 2 days easy.

 

 

This would add 1 week of State qualifying to the season, The Semi State tournament could be done in 1 day.

 

Tell me what you think or if you think I'm crazy.

 

Brad Fiscus

Mat Control

[cobrakid8]

I would say start wrestling on Thursday's at 12 noon E.T instead of at 4. That is four more hours worth of wrestling and keep more mats on the floor until most of consolations are ended on Friday. I mean really how bad would a 4 start time on Thursday be when those from Memphis and some of Middle TN are already in Chattanooga because it is not worth driving during the day Thursday to get into Chattanooga. You could have the first, second and third round done on Friday. If your able to be done by 7 or 8 get in one round of consolations. Than Friday morning start at 10 and run through another round of consolations or the first and second round of consolations if not able to from the night before. Than at 2 start the semifinals. 5 you start second or third round of consolations and end with the matches to get to placing like it is now. Saturday would be set up the same. I mean really do we need the 2 hour or so breaks between many of these sessions? I would get so board during the state I would run over and play pool over at UTC gameroom for hours until my parents would call and let me know they were starting again. This could easily be do-able. And if not this the 16 man bracket double elimation would also suit me perfect. The whole reason as we all know is money. I mean they have to have those breaks so they can kick people out so you have to pay in for another session. Than they have to have semis at a time when they can get as many as possible in to watch the matches. And I promise you it is not because they care for the kids and want them to be exposed to as many people as possible. It boils down completely to money.

[shutout]

I would say start wrestling on Thursday's at 12 noon E.T instead of at 4. That is four more hours worth of wrestling and keep more mats on the floor until most of consolations are ended on Friday. I mean really how bad would a 4 start time on Thursday be when those from Memphis and some of Middle TN are already in Chattanooga because it is not worth driving during the day Thursday to get into Chattanooga. You could have the first, second and third round done on Friday. If your able to be done by 7 or 8 get in one round of consolations. Than Friday morning start at 10 and run through another round of consolations or the first and second round of consolations if not able to from the night before. Than at 2 start the semifinals. 5 you start second or third round of consolations and end with the matches to get to placing like it is now. Saturday would be set up the same. I mean really do we need the 2 hour or so breaks between many of these sessions? I would get so board during the state I would run over and play pool over at UTC gameroom for hours until my parents would call and let me know they were starting again. This could easily be do-able. And if not this the 16 man bracket double elimation would also suit me perfect. The whole reason as we all know is money. I mean they have to have those breaks so they can kick people out so you have to pay in for another session. Than they have to have semis at a time when they can get as many as possible in to watch the matches. And I promise you it is not because they care for the kids and want them to be exposed to as many people as possible. It boils down completely to money.

 

 

 

This would also give a chance to somebody to fine a way around kids wrestling on the edge of the mat and fleeing and who lose close matches because of it. Maybe not change the out come but more of a true " winner" would be found.

[trueblueraiderfan]

I have a suggestion, and it will probably be unpopular, but I will present it anyway:

Have the current 10 Regional tournaments with the top 4 advancing to a Semistate. There will be 5 Semistates combining the Regions closest to each other, IE

Region 1 & 2 - Semi State 1

Region 3 & 4 - Semi State 2

Region 5 & 6 - Semi State 3

Region 7 & 8 - Semi State 4

Region 9 & 10 - Semi State 5

 

Each Semi State advances their top 3 placers to the State tournament. This makes the state bracket at 15.

 

The 16th man is added by a rotating assignment of Semi States on a yearly basis, IE

 

103 - Semi State 1

112- Semi State 2

119 - Semi state 3

125- Semi State 4

130 - Semi State 5

135 - Semi State 1

140 - Semi State 2

145 - Semi State 3

152 - Semi State 4

160 - Semi State 5

171 - Semi State 1

189 - Semi State 2

215 - Semi State 3

285 - Semi State 4

 

Or have the 5 4th place finishers come and wrestle a 5 man round robin on Thursday with the winner being the 16th man into the bracket.(I like this better, but not sure if it would fly).

 

The 16 man State bracket will be full Double Elimination to 8th place.Just a suggestion.

 

You could run the Thursday schedule for the Wrestle in matches, or start the 16 man double elimination matches on Thursday, however you could complete the 16 man in 2 days easy.

This would add 1 week of State qualifying to the season, The Semi State tournament could be done in 1 day.

 

Tell me what you think or if you think I'm crazy.

 

Brad Fiscus

Mat Control

 

i could see this being done but i would like to throw in ---instead of having the two strongest regions wrestle each other every year (3-4) put it on a rotating basis--some years you wrestle your neighbor--some years you travel---the way it would be with yours 3-4 would beat each other up maybe the winner would only take 8-9 wrestlers where a team from a weaker 2 regions could take 13-14---if you rotate then it is just the luck of the draw

[fiscon]

i could see this being done but i would like to throw in ---instead of having the two strongest regions wrestle each other every year (3-4) put it on a rotating basis--some years you wrestle your neighbor--some years you travel---the way it would be with yours 3-4 would beat each other up maybe the winner would only take 8-9 wrestlers where a team from a weaker 2 regions could take 13-14---if you rotate then it is just the luck of the draw

 

After a long drive to the inlaws today, I thought about this some more, I don't think you would have to add another week to the season with the format I suggested, you would do the following:

 

The last weekend in January is currently used for the Region Duals, you could do the Region Dual matches during the week and use that weekend for the Regional tournaments, the 1st weekend in February would be the State Duals, the 2nd weekend in February would be the Semi State or Substate, and the third weekend could still be the State tournament.

 

In Indiana, not sure if they still do it the same way but they used to when I coached have the 1st rnd of the individual with the winning team from each of the Sectionals be declared the Sectional Dual champion, the Sectional Dual champions would meet during the following week to compete for the Regional dual title, the Region Individual would take place on Saturday, then the Semi State Dual tournaments would take place during the week, then the Semistate would take place on the following weekend, then next weekend would be the State Individual, and the weekend after that the Dual state would occur.

 

I thought about the rotating combination of Regions, but I am not sure that the Board would go for that due to travel expenses.

[trueblueraiderfan]

After a long drive to the inlaws today, I thought about this some more, I don't think you would have to add another week to the season with the format I suggested, you would do the following:

 

The last weekend in January is currently used for the Region Duals, you could do the Region Dual matches during the week and use that weekend for the Regional tournaments, the 1st weekend in February would be the State Duals, the 2nd weekend in February would be the Semi State or Substate, and the third weekend could still be the State tournament.

 

In Indiana, not sure if they still do it the same way but they used to when I coached have the 1st rnd of the individual with the winning team from each of the Sectionals be declared the Sectional Dual champion, the Sectional Dual champions would meet during the following week to compete for the Regional dual title, the Region Individual would take place on Saturday, then the Semi State Dual tournaments would take place during the week, then the Semistate would take place on the following weekend, then next weekend would be the State Individual, and the weekend after that the Dual state would occur.

 

I thought about the rotating combination of Regions, but I am not sure that the Board would go for that due to travel expenses.

you and i and everyone that supports wrestling including the kids that were eliminated without a chance to wrestle back know the answer to this situation is to have a true double elimination ----i am sure these wrestlers that have trained all fall and winter if not longer-- and have watched their weight all season--could really care less if they had to wrestle till midnight or 4 in the morning to have a chance to wrestle back for a medal---but now as of today's chattanooga paper the tssaa is considering cutting the number of weight classes--so instead of more kids seeing they have a chance to participate you will only have somewhere between 7-12 weight classes---the excuse they use is because of the forfeits when every team cannot field a full team--but why does that matter when as individuals the kids from these teams still have a shot at an individual state championship--kids have so much more to do these days then in years past--it takes a special dedicated kid to make it in high school wrestling--whether they are a state champion or not--and now they want to cut weight classes that will hurt the schools that do have a thriving wrestling programs

[fiscon]

you and i and everyone that supports wrestling including the kids that were eliminated without a chance to wrestle back know the answer to this situation is to have a true double elimination ----i am sure these wrestlers that have trained all fall and winter if not longer-- and have watched their weight all season--could really care less if they had to wrestle till midnight or 4 in the morning to have a chance to wrestle back for a medal---but now as of today's chattanooga paper the tssaa is considering cutting the number of weight classes--so instead of more kids seeing they have a chance to participate you will only have somewhere between 7-12 weight classes---the excuse they use is because of the forfeits when every team cannot field a full team--but why does that matter when as individuals the kids from these teams still have a shot at an individual state championship--kids have so much more to do these days then in years past--it takes a special dedicated kid to make it in high school wrestling--whether they are a state champion or not--and now they want to cut weight classes that will hurt the schools that do have a thriving wrestling programs

 

I will be surprised if that happens, but I have not read the paper to see the comments, the federation would surely not decide to do that. Were there not 32 men in each bracket? The answer was yes, so don't penalize the schools who do fill the weight class and the kids who fit into those weight classes because some cannot field a team. So what happens when the classes are cut and the schools don't have the kids to fill the specific weights they choose?

[StarRaider]

---but now as of today's chattanooga paper the tssaa is considering cutting the number of weight classes--so instead of more kids seeing they have a chance to participate you will only have somewhere between 7-12 weight classes---the excuse they use is because of the forfeits when every team cannot field a full team--

 

 

 

I nominate whoever came up with this lamebrain idea for a lobotomy or 6 minutes with D Mang.

[wosbodog]

There's one thing that no one seems to be taking into account. If we have all these mini tournaments instead of throwing everybody together into a 32 man bracket, then the guys are gonna have to keep facing the same opponents. Everyone will be restricted to only facing the wrestlers in the nearby area, instead of drawing potentially anybody in the state. Having a 32 man bracket lets more kids get exposure to what the sport is about, which is something we need.

 

I say keep the round of 32; instead we should do like tnko says and hold the division 2 tournament at a different building. That would allow for more time and not screw anybody over. If they needed to they could hold it a week earlier since there's no region tournament for d-2. And it's small enough that it could be held in a high school gymnasium. Then they could move the finals to the McKenzie Arena so you could see both championships in the same building, which is also important since it keeps our sport together as a whole and probably makes more money from tickets. I don't see why this method wouldn't work, as I'm sure plenty of schools would love the honor of hosting a state tournament.

[wosbodog]

And yeah, let's not tamper with the number of weight classes. That would be questionable at best, if everybody else, and nationals, didn't have 14 classes.