Non Faculty Head Coaches

[bigchief]

The recent graduate/substitute is the head coach, a campus security guy is the asst. coach. How is this possible under TSSAA rules.

 

Asiatic2412, If you are that concerned about the situation then by all means call Metro Athletic Director Scott Brunette at 259-8783 or Antioch High School at 641-5400 and quit dancing around the subject. Get your answer straight from the sources. There is no sense asking about it here. Seems to me that you don't like the choice of coach. That is a different matter altogether.

[MVM]

And there are alot of parents that do not need to be parents. But you have to pay a price to coach at certain levels and going to college is a price that you have to pay to coach high school ball. If you want to coach little league or travel ball then it does not matter what type of education you have. Talk to any college coach that you want your daughter to play for and ask them whay type of education they have --- it might matter.

 

By the way, they will all have at least a masters degree. Think about it.

 

Bear I know a couple of college coaches that do not have masters degree. Matter of fact many of the professional coaches do not have college degrees. Matter of fact there have been a couple of Presidents that only had High school degrees.

 

There is no doubt that having a college degree is a plus, I am not anti-college. However, I'll stick by my original statement...I want my child taught by the best teacher and coached by the best coach, regardless of a college degree.

 

Having a college degree does not intitle anyone to anything, it only provides opportuninties.

[cricket]

I went to college to teach and coach. If somebody that wants to coach at the high school level then he or she needs to get a degree in education and find a job in teaching and coaching, and then, and only then is it O. K. for them to coach at the high school level. These summer traveling teams are fine for the men and women who do not want to teach. We all know that there are certain expectations that we are held accountable for, and sadly softball is a sport that is sometimes overlooked when it comes down to coaching strengths. But you have to pay a price to coach and mine was a 4 year college degree, a 2 year masters degree and teaching all day before practice and games.

 

 

With all do respect Dancing Bear I am going to have to disagree with you. While I can appreciate your stand that high school coaches need teaching degrees, a degree does not make you a good coach. I don't mean that personally. What I am saying is I have seen in all sports great coaches without teaching degrees and great coaches with teaching degrees. Likewise, I have seen TERRIBLE coaches with degrees and Terrible coaches without. So I guess my opinion is every school should evaluate their individual programs to determine what type of coach is best for them. If you have a coach with multiple degrees and they can't win, have no respect from their players, and is in it for their own self gratification then I'd say that person might need to change jobs. However, if you have a non faculty, non degree person that has a winning program, respect of their players, and is in it for the kids why would you want to change. Because of a piece of paper? Sometimes experience is more valuable than education. Just because a person has been to college doesn't make them ready or necessarily qualified to be a head coach in high school. Also, someone who played the sport doesn't automatically make them a good coach either. I have seen players turn coach that were terrible.

You mentioned paying a price to coach. I think volunteering your time, because we all know coaching supplements are a joke, should account for something. Non-faculty coaches are coaching for the love of the game not as a livelihood. One more note-I don't think coaches degreed or non-degree should be coaching at the high school level if they have a kid on the team. It leaves too much for question.

[FridayMainEvent]

With all do respect Dancing Bear I am going to have to disagree with you. While I can appreciate your stand that high school coaches need teaching degrees, a degree does not make you a good coach. I don't mean that personally. What I am saying is I have seen in all sports great coaches without teaching degrees and great coaches with teaching degrees. Likewise, I have seen TERRIBLE coaches with degrees and Terrible coaches without. So I guess my opinion is every school should evaluate their individual programs to determine what type of coach is best for them. If you have a coach with multiple degrees and they can't win, have no respect from their players, and is in it for their own self gratification then I'd say that person might need to change jobs. However, if you have a non faculty, non degree person that has a winning program, respect of their players, and is in it for the kids why would you want to change. Because of a piece of paper? Sometimes experience is more valuable than education. Just because a person has been to college doesn't make them ready or necessarily qualified to be a head coach in high school. Also, someone who played the sport doesn't automatically make them a good coach either. I have seen players turn coach that were terrible.

You mentioned paying a price to coach. I think volunteering your time, because we all know coaching supplements are a joke, should account for something. Non-faculty coaches are coaching for the love of the game not as a livelihood. One more note-I don't think coaches degreed or non-degree should be coaching at the high school level if they have a kid on the team. It leaves too much for question.

 

 

I'll second that, Cricket. I get a sense that Bear is one of those coaches who would never accept any input from a seasoned travel coach just because he feels that "piece of paper" puts him at a coaching advantage! Many of these travel coaches have been around the game longer, faced better competition, and through trial and error come up with better ways to do things. As I stated earlier, a smart adminstrative coach will embrace these guys and take advantage of any free help they are willing to give.

 

As for as Bear mentioning that the person should have to go to college and show the commitment to coaching by completing the 4 to 6 years and get a degree. That is exactly why the 5 year stipulation was added. If a good coach has committed 5 years of his time to a particular program then he has earned the right to get a chance at coaching the team, provided a better suited faculty person is not available or willing to take the job. I do feel that a Non-faculty head coach obviously be considered only after a "qualified" faculty member is not found.

 

 

At Cascade, our Baseball program is very fortunate to have a non-faculty assistant named Scott Comstock who has been a huge asset to the school. Head Coach, Chris Parker was smart enough to realize what a valuable asset Scott is and they were able to make the State Tournament last season for the first time. The two of them have worked well together to make Cascade a strong contender again this season. Sometimes it is better for people like Bear to swallow a little pride and take advantage of the years of experience these travel coaches have to offer. (with or without a degree!)

[Neil]

I have seen many high school coaches who are very, very good at what they do. I have also watched a few who were not too good. Likewise, I have seen some outstanding travel ball coaches, but I've also seen some really bad ones. Comparing high school athletics to travel ball is really apples to oranges. Travel ball teams can select the finest players they can find, or recruit. High school teams have to select from the talent pool at the school. BIG difference. TSSAA already has in place a way for non-teachers to become a head coach, as was mentioned by someone earlier. I guess what bothers me is this prevailing notion that travel ball coaches are automatically better than most high school coaches. I do not believe that this is neccessarily so.

[FridayMainEvent]

I have seen many high school coaches who are very, very good at what they do. I have also watched a few who were not too good. Likewise, I have seen some outstanding travel ball coaches, but I've also seen some really bad ones. Comparing high school athletics to travel ball is really apples to oranges. Travel ball teams can select the finest players they can find, or recruit. High school teams have to select from the talent pool at the school. BIG difference. TSSAA already has in place a way for non-teachers to become a head coach, as was mentioned by someone earlier. I guess what bothers me is this prevailing notion that travel ball coaches are automatically better than most high school coaches. I do not believe that this is neccessarily so.

 

I don't recall anyone making that blanket statement. I believe what was said that often in many sports where a qualified high school coach cannot be found it only makes sense to get a competent travel coach on the staff to assist if one is available. At least that was the way I read the thread. As you said, there are many good and a few bad coaches on both sides of the issue. Why settle for a bad high school coach if you can do better for the girls. I believe that was the jest of the thread. Bear was the one that felt a college degree carried more weight than ability to coach, not me.

[ksgovols]

I have seen many high school coaches who are very, very good at what they do. I have also watched a few who were not too good. Likewise, I have seen some outstanding travel ball coaches, but I've also seen some really bad ones. Comparing high school athletics to travel ball is really apples to oranges. Travel ball teams can select the finest players they can find, or recruit. High school teams have to select from the talent pool at the school. BIG difference. TSSAA already has in place a way for non-teachers to become a head coach, as was mentioned by someone earlier. I guess what bothers me is this prevailing notion that travel ball coaches are automatically better than most high school coaches. I do not believe that this is neccessarily so.

 

 

 

To the contrary. I think the prevailing opinion is that you don't have to have a teaching degree to be a good coach. Good coaches with teaching degrees are excepted from the debate.

[Dancing Bear]

It comes down to this; if you don't want your child to play for a coach, then don't let them play. I am firm believer that the #1 thing a child goes to school for is an education, not to play sports. Playing sports is an extension of the school day. I am not saying that the best coaches have teaching degrees, but the best coaches are teachers!

 

As far college coaches having master??™s degrees, I do not know any coach on the University of Tennessee, UVa, or Virginia Tech's staff that does not have a master??™s degree. I do not know about Walter State and schools like that!

 

If you want someone who drives a Coke truck till 3:30 and then coaches her till 6:00, then let her play travel ball all year.

 

I love my job and will work hard for the kids I coach! That's the commitment that I made when I started my college degree. If you do not want your child to play for your schools coach, then don't let her play! It's just that simple.

[ksgovols]

It comes down to this; if you don't want your child to play for a coach, then don't let them play. I am firm believer that the #1 thing a child goes to school for is an education, not to play sports. Playing sports is an extension of the school day. I am not saying that the best coaches have teaching degrees, but the best coaches are teachers!

 

As far college coaches having master??™s degrees, I do not know any coach on the University of Tennessee, UVa, or Virginia Tech's staff that does not have a master??™s degree. I do not know about Walter State and schools like that!

 

If you want someone who drives a Coke truck till 3:30 and then coaches her till 6:00, then let her play travel ball all year.

 

I love my job and will work hard for the kids I coach! That's the commitment that I made when I started my college degree. If you do not want your child to play for your schools coach, then don't let her play! It's just that simple.

 

 

This statement would assume that there are travel league games that could be played during the school season. I've never heard of any at the high school level. Those girls are playing school ball. That's a hollow bluff.

 

I agree that the education is the first thing, but once they step on the softball field, the P.E. or math teacher is not necessarily any more qualified than the Coke truck driver. Volunteer assistants can be an asset if that resource is utilized. The 5 year probationary period before becoming a head coach prevents parents from taking the job for 4 years and then quitting. I think that's a good thing too.

 

The arrogance behind the teacher/Coke truck driver comparison speaks volumes. I'm an engineer that doesn't have a teaching degree. Think that I might be able to grasp the concepts of high school math? Qualified is qualified and as far as coaching is concerned, having a teaching degree isn't a prerequisite to knowledge of the game nor the ability to relate to your players. Some folks just go into different vocations is all. A smart coach will recognize others that might contribute and utilize that resource. If the volunteer assistant sticks with it for 5 years and an opening becomes available, I think their level of commitment speaks for itself.

[FridayMainEvent]

It comes down to this; if you don't want your child to play for a coach, then don't let them play. I am firm believer that the #1 thing a child goes to school for is an education, not to play sports. Playing sports is an extension of the school day. I am not saying that the best coaches have teaching degrees, but the best coaches are teachers!

 

As far college coaches having master??™s degrees, I do not know any coach on the University of Tennessee, UVa, or Virginia Tech's staff that does not have a master??™s degree. I do not know about Walter State and schools like that!

 

If you want someone who drives a Coke truck till 3:30 and then coaches her till 6:00, then let her play travel ball all year.

 

I love my job and will work hard for the kids I coach! That's the commitment that I made when I started my college degree. If you do not want your child to play for your schools coach, then don't let her play! It's just that simple.

 

 

I like the High School Coach my daughter plays for, but after hearing some of your thoughts, I'd probably think twice about her joining a team that you coached. Most of us don't see any shame in driving a Coke truck till 3:30. Perhaps you should remember that the next time you pull your college degree into a garage to have somebody fix your car. Or the next time you call an electrician to replace a light you can't handle. Or the next time you call a Heating and Cooling Guy to fix the air unit at your house. Your COLLEGE DEGREE doesn't make you any better person than the "coke truck" drivers of the world. The way you choose to degrade all "non-degreed coaches" makes me question what kind of example you are for your team anyway!

 

One other thing, nobody mentioned a college coaches back ground. This thread is about high school. I'd be willing to bet without even knowing you, you probably don't deserve to be mentioned among the college coaches. I'd much rather have the coke truck driver running my high school team than a close-minded know it all!

[Dancing Bear]

There is more to coaching than dealing with players. You have to line off the field during your planning period. You have to order bats, balls, and deal with a million other things including upset parents. IF you haven't paid the price to coach at the high school level then coach at some lower level. And that price is going to college and getting a teaching degree and spending time learning the game under good head coaches!

 

We all have our place in life. Some of us are placed in the positions we like and others don't. A great coach once said "The difference between a person with a high school diploma, a B.S. degree and a master's degree is not how smart a person is, but how hard a person is willing to work toward something".

[Mr knowitall]

There is more to coaching than dealing with players. You have to line off the field during your planning period. You have to order bats, balls, and deal with a million other things including upset parents. IF you haven't paid the price to coach at the high school level then coach at some lower level. And that price is going to college and getting a teaching degree and spending time learning the game under good head coaches!

 

We all have our place in life. Some of us are placed in the positions we like and others don't. A great coach once said "The difference between a person with a high school diploma, a B.S. degree and a master's degree is not how smart a person is, but how hard a person is willing to work toward something".

 

HEY......What about the PEPSI truck drivers!!!!! Can they coach!!!!!