Blind draw pairings for State Tourny

[mackie]

As has been discussed previously on these boards, the blind draw pairings are back this year for the first time since 1997. The blind draw has it's positives and negatives just like any other pairing system.

 

The most common argument against the blind draw is the potential for the 2 best teams to be paired prior to the finals. While this argument is somewhat valid, it is also a valid argument against the pre-determined blind draw that was used from 1998 to 2007. Therefore anything short of a comprehensive statewide ranking system will in all likelihood have the potential to pair the 2 best teams against each other prior to the finals.

 

My great objection (along with my suggestion) is this:

If you are going to have a blind draw, do it as soon as practical after the substate games. As it stands now, the boys wait 5 days after their substate games for the draw. This leaves only 3 days (one of which is Sunday) for coaches and teams to prepare for their first opponent.

 

By having the blind draw earlier, 3 things can be accomplished:

 

1) It allows the best "team" more time to prepare and potentially beat their first round opponent that may very well have greater individual talent or athleticism.

 

2) It acts as a slight equalizer for the situation where the 2 most talented teams are paired against each other in the first round by putting an emphasis on preparation and adherence to a gameplan.

 

3) It also allows time for coaches to at least acquire game film on (and maybe even begin to prepare for) their potential semi-final opponents.

 

 

Just my two-cents worth.

[warmachine7954]

I wish they would do it sooner too.

[Green_Acres]

I personally wish they used a system like they do in football. You know who your potential opponents are well in advance and it makes for a better game.

[mtnman]

problem with that is teams may get a better draw or be on the better side of a bracket by throwing the region championship game.

 

It makes no sense to make them wait five days. At this point teams don't even know what day they will be playing. Could be wednesday, could be thursday.

 

Should have been drawn on Tuesday after substate.

[Beefstew]

I don't like blind draws at all. I think Region winners should get higher seeds, and they can figure out those seeds by records versus teams in their classification. Then the non region winners will do the same thing with the lower bracket seeding.

 

Example a team is 18-1 in their classification and won their region will get the one seed and a team that is 17-2 and won their region will get the 2 seed. And countinue to do this down the line.

 

This will also make the teams schedule more teams in their classification throughout the season.

[Stokomo]

I don't like blind draws at all. I think Region winners should get higher seeds, and they can figure out those seeds by records versus teams in their classification. Then the non region winners will do the same thing with the lower bracket seeding.

 

Example a team is 18-1 in their classification and won their region will get the one seed and a team that is 17-2 and won their region will get the 2 seed. And countinue to do this down the line.

 

This will also make the teams schedule more teams in their classification throughout the season.

 

The problem with your case, and I am from East TN so I have no bias, is that usually the best teams come from West TN, primarily the Memphis teams. The arguement that the two best teams could play each other has some valid points, but if the best teams come from the West, then in each of the two Regions that play each other, they can not draw the same team from which the tw Regions played in the Sub-State game, meaning they would, at best, play in the semis. I like the blind draw, because even if you draw the best two teams, there has always been only ONE champion when it is all said and done. For the most part, I could not tell you who was runner up in the past ten championship games. The very best teams can play in any condition, even a tough opponent in the first round.

I would agree for the AP Polls to come out with an Elite 8 ranking the day after the Sub-State games are played, the last 8 teams standing being ranked by the AP Poll. There would be a more even match-up, 1vs 8, 2vs7, 3vs6, & 4vs5. That would be the ideal situation.

[bballfanatic23]

I like the blind draw. This is a high school tournament. AP polls are not always that accurate anyway. The blind draw makes it interesting and potentially gives more opportunity to see the underdog win.

 

I agree that it should have already benn done -on Monday!

[CoachT]

I would do it this way, for AAA:

 

Put Dobyns-Bennett, Oak Ridge, Red Bank, and Antiochs' names on a piece of paper and put them in a one box. Put Clarksville, Siegel, White Station, and Ridgeway in another box. Now, draw one from each box and they play in round one.

 

I just did this myself and the pairings for round one were Oak Ridge vs Clarksville, D-B vs Siegel, Red Bank vs Ridgeway, and Antioch vs White Station.

 

Four interesting matchups. All I did was separate West Tennessee and East Tennessee teams and then put the middle Tennessee teams on one side or the other. Since Siegel eliminated Cleveland you wouldn't want them to face Red Bank. Then, draw names.

 

In AA: AE vs Mitchell, Howard vs Dyer, LA vs Bolivar, CPA vs Fulton

 

In A: Univ School vs Manassas, Grace vs Moore Co, Temple vs Union City, Jackson Co vs Eagleville

[etcoach]

As has been discussed previously on these boards, the blind draw pairings are back this year for the first time since 1997. The blind draw has it's positives and negatives just like any other pairing system.

 

The most common argument against the blind draw is the potential for the 2 best teams to be paired prior to the finals. While this argument is somewhat valid, it is also a valid argument against the pre-determined blind draw that was used from 1998 to 2007. Therefore anything short of a comprehensive statewide ranking system will in all likelihood have the potential to pair the 2 best teams against each other prior to the finals.

 

My great objection (along with my suggestion) is this:

If you are going to have a blind draw, do it as soon as practical after the substate games. As it stands now, the boys wait 5 days after their substate games for the draw. This leaves only 3 days (one of which is Sunday) for coaches and teams to prepare for their first opponent.

 

By having the blind draw earlier, 3 things can be accomplished:

 

1) It allows the best "team" more time to prepare and potentially beat their first round opponent that may very well have greater individual talent or athleticism.

 

2) It acts as a slight equalizer for the situation where the 2 most talented teams are paired against each other in the first round by putting an emphasis on preparation and adherence to a gameplan.

 

3) It also allows time for coaches to at least acquire game film on (and maybe even begin to prepare for) their potential semi-final opponents.

 

 

Just my two-cents worth.

 

While you are suggesting things to the TSSAA, you might want to write the White House and try to get the gas prices down. The organizations are very similar.

[mackie]

There are basically two general arguments here:

 

1) The blind draw vs. a ranking system of some kind

 

2) If having a blind draw, why not have it as early as possible

 

As originally mentioned, the blind draw vs. a ranking system is a topic that can be debated ad nauseum. Unless a true and accurate ranking system can be generated then we are just spinning our wheels. I think the wide variety in competition level across the state makes it very difficult (not impossible) to create a fair ranking system. No offense, but rankings based on the AP polls would be worse then a blind draw in my opinion. Most of the AP voters have only seen teams in there geographic area. It has been my experience that AP voting is typically based on record, tradition, and geographic favorites.

 

With all that said, the second argument of having the blind draw as early as possible isn't so evenly debated in my opinion. I just don't see any reason to have the blind draw as late as they are having it. Does anyone else see any positives to waiting this long?

 

My only guess as to why is that I don't think it is coincidence that the draw is being held on Saturday (day of girls championships). Maybe TSSAA feels like they will attract some of the guys teams and coaches to the games saturday night. I can't imagine that being a reality as I am sure the guys teams will be headed back home as soon as possible for a Saturday afternoon practice. Oh well.

[Beefstew]

I would do it this way, for AAA:

 

Put Dobyns-Bennett, Oak Ridge, Red Bank, and Antiochs' names on a piece of paper and put them in a one box. Put Clarksville, Siegel, White Station, and Ridgeway in another box. Now, draw one from each box and they play in round one.

 

I just did this myself and the pairings for round one were Oak Ridge vs Clarksville, D-B vs Siegel, Red Bank vs Ridgeway, and Antioch vs White Station.

 

Four interesting matchups. All I did was separate West Tennessee and East Tennessee teams and then put the middle Tennessee teams on one side or the other. Since Siegel eliminated Cleveland you wouldn't want them to face Red Bank. Then, draw names.

 

 

Good Call Coach. That would work pretty well.

[mackie]

etcoach,

 

I like the analogy. I understand your sentiments and agree completely. I never once imagined that this thread would actually change the way TSSAA does things, just wondered if I was missing something as to why the draw was being held so late.

 

I guess we can all still dream though.