Rural-urban split

[Indian]

Look for it to get some more discussion, there is more support for it than I would have thought. The biggest problem would be defining rural or urban for many schools, just because a school is in a metro area or large county would not make it urban, look at Sale Creek in Hamilton County. Even Soddy-Daisy is fairly rural, it's just located near Chattanooga and has some nice subdivisions/developments.

 

This part is pure guess, but if it happens and they divide the teams fairly near what I guessed a couple a months ago, I'd say you could have a rural division with one class up to 500 students, the other 501 to 1000, about 65 in each class. Any schools above that like Rhea County and McMinn County, I'd say would want to continue playing urban teams likes rivals Cleveland and Bradley, and there wouldn't be a lot of 1000+ school left anyway. If you left them in you could have 2000 student schools playing schools 1/3 of their size. These are football numbers, more teams playing basketball would shake up the classes slightly.

 

As for urban, it probably wouldn't matter if the multiplier was tossed out as most would be in the smallest class regardless. I think you might have all "urban" schools currently in 1A to 3A, then all schools urban or rural currently 4A and 5A. You could have three classes in this group with about 60 in each class.

 

Right now it's just talk but it will be studied closely. Some schools would be for it, if for no other reason the very poor gates and visiting crowds generated by some of their urban opponents. It would basically be a public-private split, too. A few would be left such as Friendship Christian and Columbia Academy. Goodpasture and the usual big-winning privates would be playing each other, and small publics such as Tyner and Alcoa.

[supersteve17]

Look for it to get some more discussion, there is more support for it than I would have thought. The biggest problem would be defining rural or urban for many schools, just because a school is in a metro area or large county would not make it urban, look at Sale Creek in Hamilton County. Even Soddy-Daisy is fairly rural, it's just located near Chattanooga and has some nice subdivisions/developments.

 

This part is pure guess, but if it happens and they divide the teams fairly near what I guessed a couple a months ago, I'd say you could have a rural division with one class up to 500 students, the other 501 to 1000, about 65 in each class. Any schools above that like Rhea County and McMinn County, I'd say would want to continue playing urban teams likes rivals Cleveland and Bradley, and there wouldn't be a lot of 1000+ school left anyway. If you left them in you could have 2000 student schools playing schools 1/3 of their size. These are football numbers, more teams playing basketball would shake up the classes slightly.

 

As for urban, it probably wouldn't matter if the multiplier was tossed out as most would be in the smallest class regardless. I think you might have all "urban" schools currently in 1A to 3A, then all schools urban or rural currently 4A and 5A. You could have three classes in this group with about 60 in each class.

 

Right now it's just talk but it will be studied closely. Some schools would be for it, if for no other reason the very poor gates and visiting crowds generated by some of their urban opponents. It would basically be a public-private split, too. A few would be left such as Friendship Christian and Columbia Academy. Goodpasture and the usual big-winning privates would be playing each other, and small publics such as Tyner and Alcoa.

 

 

I see some merit to a proposal like this. Can you think of any more drawbacks, other than the confusion over how to define "urban" and "rural?" Would teams have a choice of which division they played in? For instance, would Walker Valley (Bradley County) be allowed to play in the "urban" division in order to maintain rivalries with Bradley and Cleveland? Would Columbia Central be allowed to play in the division with teams from "urban" areas from neighboring Williamson County? Which division would have the "advantage" over the other division in this proposal. I assume you would say the "urban" schools would have the advantage, but what about some of the disadvantages for "urban" schools like Lookout Valley?

 

Interesting proposal and I like the discussion. It helps others to see things from different perspectives. Personally, the more different "split" proposals I see, the more I would advocate doing away with classification...but that will never happen. To me, it is like chasing after the wind.

[Indian]

I think Cleveland, Bradley and Walker Valley would be classified urban, but one way to take care of the problem would be all at a certain school population play with the urban schools. Rhea and McMinn were the examples used. 1000 was a good round number for a cutoff. I think the largest schools should have enough students to compete with any public schools in the state, they're in the halls, they just have to be persuaded to play then coached well enough.

 

Lookout Valley would be one of the question marks, it's a rural community compared to the city of Chattanooga, but it's in a metropolitan county, and LV has also been fortunate in the past years to have students who'd otherwise be attending Howard on its sports teams.

 

Giving the schools a choice might be a good idea, allowing "rural" to play urban. One has to be considered stronger than the other or there would be no reason for such a break. They could always still play non-district and non-region, it wouldn't be as if they were in separate organizations. They just wouldn't be competing for the same championship.

 

Relating to Chattanooga, here's how football could look:

Rural 1A: Copper Basin, Lookout Valley, South Pittsburg, Whitwell, Marion County

Rural 2A: Bledsoe, Meigs, Polk County, Grundy County, Sequatchie County, McMinn Central

 

Urban 1A: David Brainerd, Silverdale, Temple, Grace, Signal Mountain, Tyner, Chattanooga Christian, Boyd-Buchanan

Urban 2A: Howard, East Ridge, Brainerd, Hixson, East Brainerd, Central, Red Bank, Notre Dame

Urban 3A: Bradley, Rhea County, Walker Valley, Cleveland, McMinn County, Ooltewah, Soddy-Daisy

 

Some areas of the state might not be so cut-and-dry and work out with such logical, relatively nearby to each other, regions. There could always be things like Grundy moving west, etc. In this set-up, I might have Sweetwater, Tellico Plains and Sequoyah in a region with Kingston, Loudon, Oliver Springs and Seymour.

 

And again, right now it's just discussion but it appears to be an option for the TSSAA. Whether it would be anything like this who knows right now.

[Baldcoach]

I think Cleveland, Bradley and Walker Valley would be classified urban, but one way to take care of the problem would be all at a certain school population play with the urban schools. Rhea and McMinn were the examples used. 1000 was a good round number for a cutoff. I think the largest schools should have enough students to compete with any public schools in the state, they're in the halls, they just have to be persuaded to play then coached well enough.

 

Lookout Valley would be one of the question marks, it's a rural community compared to the city of Chattanooga, but it's in a metropolitan county, and LV has also been fortunate in the past years to have students who'd otherwise be attending Howard on its sports teams.

 

Giving the schools a choice might be a good idea, allowing "rural" to play urban. One has to be considered stronger than the other or there would be no reason for such a break. They could always still play non-district and non-region, it wouldn't be as if they were in separate organizations. They just wouldn't be competing for the same championship.

 

Relating to Chattanooga, here's how football could look:

Rural 1A: Copper Basin, Lookout Valley, South Pittsburg, Whitwell, Marion County

Rural 2A: Bledsoe, Meigs, Polk County, Grundy County, Sequatchie County, McMinn Central

 

 

Urban 1A: David Brainerd, Silverdale, Temple, Grace, Signal Mountain, Tyner, Chattanooga Christian, Boyd-Buchanan

Urban 2A: Howard, East Ridge, Brainerd, Hixson, East Brainerd, Central, Red Bank, Notre Dame

Urban 3A: Bradley, Rhea County, Walker Valley, Cleveland, McMinn County, Ooltewah, Soddy-Daisy

 

Some areas of the state might not be so cut-and-dry and work out with such logical, relatively nearby to each other, regions. There could always be things like Grundy moving west, etc. In this set-up, I might have Sweetwater, Tellico Plains and Sequoyah in a region with Kingston, Loudon, Oliver Springs and Seymour.

 

And again, right now it's just discussion but it appears to be an option for the TSSAA. Whether it would be anything like this who knows right now.

 

 

Indian,

 

I think the idea of rural/urban split has more merit than public private, but you can't just classify obviously urban schools like LV as rural because they are small, or not powerhouses in Football. LV is plainly urban.

 

Of course, I don't think ANY split has merit. But I did predict this...once you open the door to victim mentality and split a group for their successes you get into 'witch hunt' mode. I predicted that it would move to the small privates, then to the magnets, then to rural/urban. LOL! Here we are.

 

So who can we split next...open zoned?

[Indian]

Is Lookout Valley urban because they're in an overall urban county, or because of their own individual community features? Same for Sale Creek. Other schools are probably much more iffy, maybe just a mile or two from interstate access but without malls, etc. The easiest way would be any schools in a major county to be classified urban but questions like that are a reason it may not pass. I'm not necessarily for it. Such a split would fix much of the open zone argument, though.

[supersteve17]

Is Lookout Valley urban because they're in an overall urban county, or because of their own individual community features? Same for Sale Creek. Other schools are probably much more iffy, maybe just a mile or two from interstate access but without malls, etc. The easiest way would be any schools in a major county to be classified urban but questions like that are a reason it may not pass. I'm not necessarily for it. Such a split would fix much of the open zone argument, though.

 

 

That was my point about Cleveland, Bradley and Walker Valley. Walker Valley is definitely in a rural area, even though it is in Bradley County. The same holds true for Columbia, Spring Hill, Culleoka, Santa Fe, Hampshire in Maury County. If "malls, etc." make an area "urban" Columbia and Spring Hill would be considered urban while Culleoka, Santa Fe and Hampshire are definitely in rural areas of the county.

 

Your points about LV and Sale Creek are valid. Again, I think the idea of ANY classification system that is completely "fair" to everyone is virtually impossible. The easiest route to take is the one that has been taken historically in most places -- simply classify according to enrollment figures and let the chips fall where they may. Is this "unfair" to some? Probably. There will always be the Alcoas of the world that skew the system for others!

[Indian]

WV isn't just Charleston students, the enrollment is at 1300 or so now and was only about 350 in 9-12 when Charleston High School served that area. That would be another reason to have all the large schools, Franklin County, Jefferson County, etc. After thinking about it a little, I'd say they'd put Sale Creek, Lookout Valley and others in large counties in urban regardless of their type of community.

 

For having a small number of teams, the private schools have a lot more "skewers."

[supersteve17]

WV isn't just Charleston students, the enrollment is at 1300 or so now and was only about 350 in 9-12 when Charleston High School served that area. That would be another reason to have all the large schools, Franklin County, Jefferson County, etc. After thinking about it a little, I'd say they'd put Sale Creek, Lookout Valley and others in large counties in urban regardless of their type of community.

 

For having a small number of teams, the private schools have a lot more "skewers."

 

 

You are probably correct on that last point. I won't deny the past few year's results. What I don't understand is why Alcoa and others like them are always thrown out of the discussion while the "private schools" are lumped together as if they are all one entity. Alcoa has been FAR MORE dominant in football in 2A than ANY D1 private school has ever been. Trousdale and South Pitt have been far more dominant in class A than any D1 private school has ever been.

 

Take BBS for example. They had a very nice run of three seasons in a row in the championship game in class A. Won one and lost two in OT. You know those facts. They haven't been past the third round of the playoffs in any other season in their history. I love BBS and coach Reynolds amd company. I respect what the Bucs have done and I'm not knocking on them at all, (I think their program is on solid footing) but they have never had a run of dominance in class A like Trousdale or in class AA like Alcoa. I'm not saying they won't ever compete for a championship again, but I don't see an Alcoa-like run for them in the foreseeable future. I could easily see Alcoa continue with its success for a long time.

 

My point is that all private schools are not alike and really don't have the potential to "skew" things the way some public schools do. That's just my humbly-submitted opinion.

[Antwan]

Indian,

 

I think the idea of rural/urban split has more merit than public private, but you can't just classify obviously urban schools like LV as rural because they are small, or not powerhouses in Football. LV is plainly urban.

 

Of course, I don't think ANY split has merit. But I did predict this...once you open the door to victim mentality and split a group for their successes you get into 'witch hunt' mode. I predicted that it would move to the small privates, then to the magnets, then to rural/urban. LOL! Here we are.

 

So who can we split next...open zoned?

 

 

This plan will take care of the open zone/tuition paying athlete problem. It doesn't matter if rural schools are open zoned. They are zoned by geography.

[clintabbott]

If they put Alcoa in a region that has four teams, they won't be able to have a seven game schedule, because nobody will play them.

[Indian]

I'm sure they'll be okay. Keep Maryville, get Austin-East and Fulton on the schedule if they're not already, maybe a McCallie and here's one, try for Riverdale. Talk about a money game. Or maybe things will remain the same and they can keep playing Wartburg, would that be better?

[coach1076]

If they put Alcoa in a region that has four teams, they won't be able to have a seven game schedule, because nobody will play them.

 

 

Cry, all I hear is complaints from over there, complaining about the gates from some of the teams they play, complaining about a weak schedule. Well then step up, they can find a 10 game schedule, they will just have to step up the schedule a bit. The larger schools would play them because it would be competitive & Alcoa would bring in a huge gate. I dont know how a team that wins 4 state title in a row can whine so loudly. I know its more so the fans then anything....or is it? /dry.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="