summer ball verses high school ball...

[bgmlrh]

It would be interesting to hear coaches' and players' opinions on this topic. I know the programs of each vary drastically, but I find it interesting when parents and/or players feel that high school ball is unnecessary for the player. With varying high school programs, I understand the possibility of the statement. But, it confuses me as well. I am interested in hearing this topic debated. Which is more needed, more fun, more work, better to prepare players, or do you just feel they work hand and hand to build a better athlete? Is the ultimate goal for most young athletes college? Which is better? I know programs vary from 'single A' to 'triple A' just as summer ball teams vary with their ability to recruit talent. And coaches can be from good to bad in both of these. So, what's your opinion?

[dropball]

I think HS and travel ball work hand in hand with one another. The more games the players play, the better they will become. In most cases, you get more community attention playing HS. Both HS and travel can be and, IMO, should be enjoyable. Since there are a larger number of HS teams and players, the number of relative potential college recruits would be smaller. I doubt if there are many travel players who aren't looking or hoping for college playing time. Few HS players will be recruited without playing Travel ball. The ones who are, will be recruited by the local Commuinty Colleges or smaller local colleges generally after a very good HS season. Larger Div. 1 coaches will know the best players from travel ball and recommendations of trusted sources. Surprisingly, I know players who have been recruited by Div. 1 college coaches who never watched the prospective players play a single game. For the players who are looking for Div. 1 college playing time, I think it is all about getting one's name out in as many venues as possible, playing as much as possible, learning as much as possible, and showing a genuine love for the game. Also, not to be forgotten or trivialized, good HS grades/ACT's are very important to the college coaches. There are many ways for players to reach their goals and I don't think one is better than another. Hard work and luck both play a role. While it will certainly help a player to play for the HS state championship or for the travel player to play "Gold Ball" or in ASA national tournaments, it is not necessary. Just my opinion.

[sportalcholic]

Hey not any need of anymore comments. Looks like to me you hit it right on the nail.GOOD JOB with answer.

[2Shooter4]

I agree. Although, if you are stuck in a bad situation in high school, it can be bad for an athlete. Don't get me wrong, the games do help with experience and in general make you a better player, but if you don't have the right coaching, it can be damaging. Players will in fact take one step forward and two steps back in the spring, forcing them to get back to their full potential over the summer.

[allsports1]

You are very, very wise, 2shooter4. A lot of the high school coaches that I have seen and I can name 1 really fast, the girls take about 4 giant steps backwards. Then the summer coaches that really know softball and love the game and see the girl's potential, get them playing again. They usually have a Fall team (high school) with the same summer coaches. They do fine until they get their regular high school coach again. The problem is the high school coaches do it for extra money. The girls going on to play in college just have to hang on and hope it is over soon. That is unfortunate. College softball is entirely different from high school. It is more like your summer ball with the great organization and the great coaches. So definitely summer ball, at least in our area, is the best.

[2Shooter4]

You sound like you might go to my school!! haha.

[bgmlrh]

I am saddened to hear that you feel high school softball coaches do the job for the money. It may be true in some instances. I can honestly say from experience that the time involved in high school ball is not worth the money alloted to the sport. The supplement is low. What I find more true about high school softball is that the coaches position is given to whomever will fill it, and that is sometimes an individual with little knowledge of the game. Not so much for the money, but job security, ego.... There is no recruiting of a softball coach as there is in football or basketball for high school. The comparison of high school to college or summer to college is funny. Yes, I agree that summer is good for maintaining and improving your aptitude of the game. I agree that exposure is good at bigger (A and gold) tourneys. I agree that players enjoy summer ball more. I disagree with the comparison of summer ball being more like college ball. College intensity is beyond what anyone who has not experienced it can imagine. The exposure factor of summer ball is good. I agree with the statement of your name being linked with good scores, hard work, luck, etc.... Summer ball does not prepare you to balance grades and the WORK schedule required to participate with any (D-I through D-III or NAIA) serious college program. Good high school does. College coaches cannot gamble with players that are not able to balance the class schedule with the softball schedule--regardless of the talent. They are not looking at just the talent a player possesses. Players have to have academic strengths, coachability, versatility, and many more attributes that make a well rounded athlete. The discipline of the college coach is much more similiar to the discipline of the good high school coach (academics first, tardy to practice, dugout etiquette, sassy mouth, riding the bench issues, parents....). Summer ball is an elite group of 10-12 girls that get plenty of playing time. I see players talking back to the coaches, parents in the dugouts, kids who come to summer ball practice around their work schedules, or miss tournaments because of other priorities. This does not occur in college. College is a great deal of hard work-- even at local Division 1 schools. It is intense. I am glad that players have both opportunities, I am just bothered when the importance of high school is neglected. Yes, I understand there are bad high school coaches but, there are also bad college coaches. Fortunately, in both instances, there are also great ones. A bad high school coach can be poison to a group of talented softball players to the point of the previous mentioned "two steps forward....". Enduring the four years of bad high school with good summer may help build better survival for life. Once you have endured that situation, it builds strength and character that may help in life beyond softball.

[allsports1]

Sorry if I didn't provide enough info and left you with the wrong impression. Using our experience of high school coaches, the first coach lobbyed to get the postion soley because he needed the extra money. Then the wife complained because he spent too much time away from home and he gave it up. I don't know if it is because it is a girl's sport and not football or what the case may be, but the 2nd coach had to be begged and arm twisted to take the job. He previously coached baseball and tryed to teach the girls baseball, but soon found he liked the coaching because of the attention he received. As far as helping the girls in their sport, NO, NO, AND NO. The girls had to be dedicated enough and want to play at a higher level and work hard to get to the next level all by themselves, no help from their high school coach.

 

We have had many summer travel coaches. Our experience was a very organized team, very disciplined, you practice as you play and you practice a lot. Everyone got along great including the parents and the parents clearly did not run the show and were not allowed in the dug outs. If there was a problem, the problem was removed from the next year's roster. The girls chosen were brought up to have respect and no mouthiness ever occurred. (This sounds like a fairy tale, but it really is not.) Meanwhile, the girls on the high school team are mouthy and practice sloppy. If they make mistakes, they are not pulled or disciplined. They play the position because they are a senior, not because they are the best player for the position. College softball is entirely different. I meant the summer coaches and our experience is comparable to college with the discipline and the focus of the game and the intensity, etc. (You don't play summer ball and spend a tremendous amount of money without going to win and win it all, from our experience.) You had better be intense and love the sport in college or you will find yourself in a lot of hot water both with the coaches and your teammates. Your focus here is to play hard to win. Those wins count big, but the losses have a greater impact especially if it is a big conference game. There is so much more riding on the games. I barely skimmed the surface with 2Shooter4 because I was not sure which level she was at and I didn't want to scare her. EVERYONE'S EXPERIENCE IS DIFFERENT, BUT OUR EXPERIENCE WAS THAT DISCIPLINED, STRUCTURED, INTENSE SUMMER BALL WAS MUCH LIKE COLLEGE SOFTBALL.

[TNBballMan]

The best thing to do to get some honest answers is to go and ask the college player who endured high school and summer ball before and is now at the college level. They should be able to tell you exactly what it is like, unless you've been there and done that, you can't really say exactly what is going on.

[FPFanatic]

bglmrh, most people responding have talked about the

competition side of travel ball vs. high school. There

are only about a dozen or so high schools that can compete

with the best "A" 16U and 18U travel teams in the state.

These high schools are what I have alluded to as "softball

factories" because they have the best coaches and have at

least 9 very strong players. Again, 99% of the high schools

in the state are not like that as you know. From the

competition side, there is no comparison between travel ball

and high school ball. College ball is another ball game

entirely, with the exception of the weaker programs in the

state. College ball is a full time job, these kids study,

work out, and work for the better parts of their days.

Whatever financial assistance these kids get, they earn it.

But as it as been said many times on this board, and much

more eloquently than I can put it, high school ball is an

institution that goes beyond the sport. It is also a social

rite of passage that should be a part of growing up and

maturing and learning to be an adult, so high school ball

should be for everyone, while travel ball is the next step

for the gifted and serious athlete who wants to enjoy better

competition and have an opportunity at the college level.

One of the good points about fastpitch is that it has a

place where all players can compete and have fun, no matter

if it is rec league, high school, "B" ball, "A" ball, or

college.

[allsports1]

Well, I speak from my daughter's experience. She is in college on a softball scholarship. She played travel softball for many, many years and high school all 4 years. Travel softball was much, much better than high school and college softball is best of all. The pitching is more consistent and it is at that next level of competition.

[Indian]

I guess that depends upon your defintion of better. I know some players who had more close friends on their summer team than their high school team, even though they didn't see their summer teammates throughout the year, and they had a whole lot more fun. Other players enjoy playing with school teammates more, and don't like traveling far at all. As far as getting a player ready for college, I can say this, there have been four players graduate from here that played on national level/extensive travel summer teams, and three of those signed Division I scholarships (the only three from the school). The other finished a very good freshman season at one of the best junior colleges in the country, learned a new position, and should be at a Division I school her junior and senior seasons. 4 isn't counting some younger players and girls who are in much younger age groups.