Private Schools are hurting Public Schools

[itzme]

Not to be argumentative but please explain to me what a "neutral" prayer is.

 

I didn't phrase that well. I meant one that does not mention a specific deity or prophet. For example, Henry Ford High School in Dearborn Michigan is over 50% Muslim. I would not want them to be saying anything about Mohammed in a public prayer.

[countrypk]

I didn't phrase that well. I meant one that does not mention a specific deity or prophet. For example, Henry Ford High School in Dearborn Michigan is over 50% Muslim. I would not want them to be saying anything about Mohammed in a public prayer.

 

 

Why wouldn't you want them to say anything about Mohammed? In that case, if a Muslim student was praying in Mohammed's name, I'd be respectful while he prayed but pray to my God as instructed in my instruction book. It would be kind of crowded in the stands with all those prayer rugs and over 50% of the students protrate as they pray towards Mecca. While I don't believe there are very many practicing Muslim football players, I have noticed a number of NCAA and NFL players with culturally Muslim names. Based on their antics and those identified as culturally Christian off the field I don't get the impression both groups are keeping either Sharia law or many of the Ten Commandments.

 

It is a heck of a commentary about our society where the mere mention of the Christian God or Jesus in a prayer in a public setting will send folks to the nearest ACLU office, but it's acceptable to curse both in public with only a dissaproving look or two.

[fiftyfifty]

I think the case for not allowing public displays of one's personal religion is justified by the previous posts on this thread. If you have ever had a conversation with an individual who experienced extreme cruelty because of his particular Christian religion, then you might change your mind about public displays of religion in schools. I know students who experienced bigoted and mean spirited questions about their particular religion which has no place in the public school system. Its called seperation of church and state. Which brand of Christianity do you use if it is allowed. What about the feelings of the other students who adhere to a different religion. Who would monitor this. Many church's have found over the centuries that failure to seperate church from state usually leads to disaster. Now some people don't care about people's feelings, instead they are doing it for the Lord and if you don't like it, tough. But I would submit that the message is being personalized and that is not the purpose. I have a very hard time finding in the Gospels where anyone forced another to their brand of Christianity or any other religion. Remember I said the Gospels, Matthew,Mark.Luke and John. So why should this be any different in the schools? Its the only way to ensure equality and right treatment of all people. As other posters have stated, no one is stopping a student or teacher or anyone else from saying a prayer. And nobody is stopping a group of students who have found common ground from having a little prayer group. By the way, who said, when you pray, go to your room and close the door and your heavenly father will hear you. If all bans of public prayer were allowed, many,many students would suffer, be ridiculed, all in the name of someone's perception of the Lord, or Allah or whomever. Is everyone sure you would want that, I am sure that I don't. By the way, I am a huge private school supporter and love my school and church. But I also respect your church and would never do anything to disrepect any individual's religion whether I agree with it or not. /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

[KCHSCoach]

great post

[Old Timer]

Great post stbulldog.....my question has always been "Why does everyone always feel the need that their prayers must be spoken out loud for everyone else to hear?" I was always taught that the Good Lord was going to hear everything you said or that you thought. A silent prayer is just as good as an outspoken prayer. If everyone took a moment each day and said a silent prayer "in their own religious way", there wouldn't be a need to ban prayers from public places. JMHO....of course that and $10 might buy you a decent lunch.

 

 

I think the case for not allowing public displays of one's personal religion is justified by the previous posts on this thread. If you have ever had a conversation with an individual who experienced extreme cruelty because of his particular Christian religion, then you might change your mind about public displays of religion in schools. I know students who experienced bigoted and mean spirited questions about their particular religion which has no place in the public school system. Its called seperation of church and state. Which brand of Christianity do you use if it is allowed. What about the feelings of the other students who adhere to a different religion. Who would monitor this. Many church's have found over the centuries that failure to seperate church from state usually leads to disaster. Now some people don't care about people's feelings, instead they are doing it for the Lord and if you don't like it, tough. But I would submit that the message is being personalized and that is not the purpose. I have a very hard time finding in the Gospels where anyone forced another to their brand of Christianity or any other religion. Remember I said the Gospels, Matthew,Mark.Luke and John. So why should this be any different in the schools? Its the only way to ensure equality and right treatment of all people. As other posters have stated, no one is stopping a student or teacher or anyone else from saying a prayer. And nobody is stopping a group of students who have found common ground from having a little prayer group. By the way, who said, when you pray, go to your room and close the door and your heavenly father will hear you. If all bans of public prayer were allowed, many,many students would suffer, be ridiculed, all in the name of someone's perception of the Lord, or Allah or whomever. Is everyone sure you would want that, I am sure that I don't. By the way, I am a huge private school supporter and love my school and church. But I also respect your church and would never do anything to disrepect any individual's religion whether I agree with it or not. /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

[ahapplet]

I think the case for not allowing public displays of one's personal religion is justified by the previous posts on this thread. If you have ever had a conversation with an individual who experienced extreme cruelty because of his particular Christian religion, then you might change your mind about public displays of religion in schools. I know students who experienced bigoted and mean spirited questions about their particular religion which has no place in the public school system. Its called seperation of church and state. Which brand of Christianity do you use if it is allowed. What about the feelings of the other students who adhere to a different religion. Who would monitor this. Many church's have found over the centuries that failure to seperate church from state usually leads to disaster. Now some people don't care about people's feelings, instead they are doing it for the Lord and if you don't like it, tough. But I would submit that the message is being personalized and that is not the purpose. I have a very hard time finding in the Gospels where anyone forced another to their brand of Christianity or any other religion. Remember I said the Gospels, Matthew,Mark.Luke and John. So why should this be any different in the schools? Its the only way to ensure equality and right treatment of all people. As other posters have stated, no one is stopping a student or teacher or anyone else from saying a prayer. And nobody is stopping a group of students who have found common ground from having a little prayer group. By the way, who said, when you pray, go to your room and close the door and your heavenly father will hear you. If all bans of public prayer were allowed, many,many students would suffer, be ridiculed, all in the name of someone's perception of the Lord, or Allah or whomever. Is everyone sure you would want that, I am sure that I don't. By the way, I am a huge private school supporter and love my school and church. But I also respect your church and would never do anything to disrepect any individual's religion whether I agree with it or not. /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

 

 

Thank you for these wise words.

[itzme]

Matthew 6:5-8

[4warriors]

The argument for private schools is that the education and athletics is better. Maybe the argument for public schools is that if Private schools didn't exist then public schools, and therefore the community, would be much better with the added support of those students/families/boosters/fundraisers.

 

I think you miss the point that private schools are on the increase because, as a rule, when we (private parents) were going to to public schools, it didn't make any difference. Schools kept getting worse. The government defines the agenda, teachers (as a rule) are protected, they teach to the lowest common denominator, and the few bad eggs are allowed to negatively affect the whole. My sister and father in law are public school teachers and I grew up in a public school but they(publics)left us before we decided to leave them.

[4warriors]

Here is how I perceive it: we have a private school planned in Lawrence County, starting with grades 1-3 and adding one grade a year. It will be christian-oriented but I don't think it is a particular denomination. If it succeeds, and they eventually take, say, 100 students from the high school we will be worse for it. If you took 100 christian students out right now I and the rest of the school would miss those kids since they are exactly what we need more of, not less. That is what I think has happened in many areas of the state, mostly urban and suburban. Over a period of many years that is a lot of support gone.

This is the delima my wife and I faced when we had to decide where to send our four kids. Our local schools actively work against our beliefs and faith. I want my kids to be taught by folks who support me, not actively work against me(I realize not 100% of the teachers would-but the system does). It costs me $30,000 hard earned dollars to go to a private school for four kids--I didn't do it for athletics, although my kids play sports. I know not everyone can afford to do so, but if my school follows the rules TSSAA sets out for us in D1-why the hate? We already play against schools much larger than us.

[4warriors]

I guess you could thank them. But I assure you if we didn't have to pay them, most of us if not all would not pay for something we don't use. Unless of course, the public school parents started contributing to the private schools for their contribution to society. /biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />

 

One word--vouchers

[4warriors]

Except for probably part of the Science curriculum, what are public schools missing as far as religion goes?

 

Can only speak for our school- no violence, almost no drugs, no gangs, no fights, no serious disrespect for teachers, teachers working without the artificial protection of gov., smaller family environment, equal treatment of controversail topics (yes, God induced universe or just a big accident), better opportunity for involvment in extracurricular, better consistency in academics--maybe more if I think more

 

I tend to agree with VG. 42 years ago, my Father sent me to a Military School and a few years later I asked him about paying taxes that went to Public Education.

 

After calling me a knot head, he explained that all Americans were obligated to keep public Education financed. Public education created a strong middle class and it was our tool to avoid class war. He told me it was my behavior and attitude that took me to a military school. It was an OPTION that he could afford. It straighten me out and I went to a great public HS. I did not feel the academics were superior to one over the other.

 

When I buy an SUV or a house with more bedrooms than I need (and I have) I chose to pay more. Because I have certain tastes and needs I pay more taxes and yes that money goes into public housing and streets on the other side of town that I never drive on.

 

Education is considered an entitlement and a privelage in America (I go nuts when people don't take advantage of it) and private schools are choice.

 

On the other hand, I go nuts at some of the backward rural and do nothing inner city schools and they expect to keep their students! But that is another post.

42 years ago your dad was supporting a very different (better) public school system

[4warriors]

VG,

 

I know that we tend to disagree on the necessity of small religious privates, but I think we both have a good idea what I meant. If you don't think I'm right that's ok, but I like you too much to get into a debate about details. In general it is currently illegal to publicly display your Christianity in your classroom in public ed. I'm not talking about living a love centered life, I'm talking about praying with and for the kids, discussing your Christian faith, and even (ACLU forbid!) reading scripture or having chapel.

One of my best friends recently sold his business to go back and get his education degree so he could go into HS education. During his orientation to student teach he was told he was not allowed to bring any of his faith to work(in any visible way) no Bible on his desk or book shelf, no mention of Christ, nothing--I realize he can still live by his morals, etc. but the government has removed the Chrisitian faith from its traditional role in education in our country. Look at the mission statement of even schools like Harvard when they were founded. Top that off with the decline of parental involvement and the lack of accountability for teachers in some instituations and the result is the growth in privates.

 

 

Red Bank does it and has never stopped doing it. They are student-led invocations instead of "community" church leaders praying. I guess that makes some difference? The University of Tennessee has always had an invocation as well. I'm not sure if they put limitations or restrictions on the prayers or not. I have notiiced that the name of Christ is seldom, if ever, invoked. UCLA did not have any kind of invocation at the Rose Bowl on Septemvber 1 this year. (Tennessee obviously wishes they had!)

 

I wonder what makes the difference?

Mostly the local make up of folks--if someone wants to stop it they almost certainly can

 

 

There are many christian organizations and clubs provided in a public school for christain students, FCA, Christian Crusaders, etc. Any student may practice his or her religion as long as it doesn't disrupt the school enviroment. Any teacher may practice their religion in public schools, you are just not allowed to share it with others unless asked. Its when one religion is forced upon another we have problems. Freedom of religion is the cornerstone of our society. Just remember not everyone will practice your religion and don't be offended if everyone does't practice your religion. As far as privates hurting publics, choice is always better than no choice. Competition makes things better. It has been mentioned that education is an entitlement, I like to think of it as an investment. When you invest in students you will get a better return later as they become an adult. We invest in america's national parks so they can be preserved for the future. Like education it is the tax payers who invest in these parks. We as tax payers may use these parks for vacation and recreation if we choose to, or we can pay much more money and go to disney world. Once again we as tax payers have a choice. If I chose to go to Disney world I don't get a Tax break because I choose not to go to Yellowstone. Same with mailing a package, I can choose to use USPS or I can use UPS or FedEx. I don't get a tax break just because I don't use USPS. Its the same for public education, choice is good, but don't expect tax breaks just because you chose private education.

 

Freedom of is much better and different than freedom from or in the worst cases in our public schools, an outright hostility towards Christianity.