Playing "Not To Win"

[TopDawg83]

You can hear in the crowd at any given District tournament this week "If Team X can stay out of the bracket with Team Z then they have a better chance of making thru the Region tournament."

 

If one team can get into an "easier" bracket by losing instead of facing possible elimination by winning, is it ethical for a coach to help their team play "Not To Win". OR Is it a very strategic move to ensure advancing in the tournament by avoiding tougher competition?

 

Is there a difference between this and holding the ball an entire game to keep the score ridiculously low and close knowing that the stalling team is outmatched player for player and couldn't possibly win in a "normally played" game and must resort to a glorified game of "KEEP AWAY" (One game I recall like this was Gordonsville vs Smith County (boys) several years ago).

 

There is no rule in the book that says you must play to "WIN".

 

I am very interested in hearing EVERYONE'S viewpoint on this highly controversial topic!

[oneshot]

The coach should be FIRED!!! if they throw a game!!! goes against what they been telling the players all year! surely your not suggesting someone would try to dodge clarkrange?

[flash49]

Stalling the ball is just as much apart of the game as man to man or any zone defense as I see it. I use it to put my team in the best possible position to win the game. Now if u use it when your losing or if u have a very offensive minded team, then u might call that playing not to win. I always told my team to play the game at hand, the next game will take care of itself. Teaching players how to win or lose is important as any offensive or defensive play that u can teach them. Again, teaching players how to handle situations head on will prepare them for the hard times they will encounter in life.

[TopDawg83]

Before this goes any further and turns into any bashing of myself or any one particular coach or team, let me start by saying those that know me know that I coached youth sports for 20+ years and have been involved in coaching everything from Tee-Ball, Little-League, Coach-Pitch, Babe-Ruth, Jr.-Pro Basketball and Football to Co-Coaching AAU girls basketball at the National Championship Tournament level. I NEVER DID intentionally put any of my teams into a losing situation to better their chances later down the line. I personally was too competitive and enjoyed the looks on my players faces when they did BEAT that team they were not suppose to beat and Flash49 I agree sports should be used to help kids learn lessons they will use later in LIFE and I tried to do that as well.

 

But, back to the topic. You could apply this principle to any team facing an almost unbeatable team, whether that team is Clarkrange, Marshall County, Gibson County, Upperman, Memphis Central, or any of the power-houses on the boys side - Manassas, Humbolt, Austin-East, Livingston Acad., Bearden or any great team you can think of. If you believe that all coaches at this or any level are ALL moral, and have the kids betterment first and foremost in their motives then you must be living in a fantasy world. I wish it was that way but EGOS, TEMPERS, PRIDE, and GREED tend to get in the way so many times instead. You know as well as I do some have a WIN-AT-ALL-COST attitude.

 

This forum is used to talk about a miriad of topics, some light-hearted, some controversial, and some down-right-mean. I have heard this talked about not only this year but in years past. Just was curious what all the "anonymous" posters had to say about the subject. If no one wants to talk about it then the thread will be like others before and after it.....it will simply die and go away.......................

[Indian]

A boys' coach in Chattanooga a while back was fired for it. It might not have even really been an issue but he felt the need to explain to the paper "we were able to play a lot of our young guys tonight" or something similar, after his team lost to a team they should have beaten. A coach who'd been at Rhea County seemed proud of it too a few years ago and if I remember right they advanced pretty far in the postseason.

[TopDawg83]

Thanks Indian for sharing your thoughts. I was pretty sure someone would have a story or two or memories of it happening in the past. I just couldn't believe that no one ever knew of it actually happening or being on a team that actually did it in the past.

 

Unless you (in general) was on a team that did it or there a was a ballsy enough coach to actually brag about it, it really be something hard to prove to the point of any disciplinary action.

[ref1983]

When its tourny time you play to advance whatever it takes.

[StudCantrell]

You play to how the system dictates it. With the system in TN, you can actually lose three games in the post season and still make the state tournament. I play to win all the time but sometimes a loss in the districts can be an advantage in the regions and advancing to the sectionals. Rhea County as it was mentioned went to the state in this scenario. The best way to eliminate the posssibility of "playing not to win" is make the districts single elimination until the finals. The top two advance. No more consolations. The regions can be done three different ways: 1. continue as they are. 2. just the champion advancing to the sectional and turn the state tourney into a final four. 3. the region champions advancing to the state tourney.

[Rocking Chair]

When its tourny time you play to advance whatever it takes.

 

 

I agree 100% that a team should play to advance (within the ethics of the sport) , but not whatever it takes. What kind of message are we sending to the youth today? That it's ok to cheat !!!

 

I have a solution but it will never happen......Single Elimination...I mean how many chances does a team need to make it to the State. Using Single Elimination format anyone could lose on a given night.

 

I think the District-Region-Substate should be played like the State tourney. Win advance.....lose go home.

 

My favorite spectator sport.....NCAA College Basketball Tournament b/c there are always some small team upsetting a big team. It makes the game much more exciting.

 

I wish someone explain the positives of playing these tournaments like they do and not single elimination. I can probably guess one thing ...MONEY

[oneshot]

I agree 100% that a team should play to advance (within the ethics of the sport) , but not whatever it takes. What kind of message are we sending to the youth today? That it's ok to cheat !!!

 

I have a solution but it will never happen......Single Elimination...I mean how many chances does a team need to make it to the State. Using Single Elimination format anyone could lose on a given night.

 

I think the District-Region-Substate should be played like the State tourney. Win advance.....lose go home.

 

My favorite spectator sport.....NCAA College Basketball Tournament b/c there are always some small team upsetting a big team. It makes the game much more exciting.

 

I wish someone explain the positives of playing these tournaments like they do and not single elimination. I can probably guess one thing ...MONEY

 

 

 

i like the single elimination idea but we all know its about the money. so it will never happen!

[StudCantrell]

I'm playing devil's advocate. By no means I am taking sides. Suppose my team finished second in district 5-AAA in the regular season with my only two losses being to the regular season champ by an average of 20 points and my overall record is 22-6. But in a non-dstrict game i beat the 6-AAA champ by 15. Going into the district tourney I look at my best way in advancing to the state. One and three seeds from the same district are in the same bracket in the region so I really don't want to be in the same bracket as our reg. season champ. The best way is to win the dist. tourney against the reg. season champ. Then you go down to the worst-case scenarios. If we lose in the semis, is it our best interest to win the consolation and probably be in the same bracket as our reg. season champ or finish fourth being in the opposite bracket of reg. seson champ and take our chances with a team we had beaten by 15 earlier in the year. If we win the semis we will be in the opposite bracket anyway if we play the champ. But if we win the semis and the champ gets upset, do we win the title or finish second to stay out of their bracket pending on the consolation outcome. Things that make you go /huh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":huh:" border="0" alt="huh.gif" />

 

That is what a lot of coaches go through. Right or wrong.

[nwtnsports]

Coaches do practice this from time to time. I can tell you that you, any fans, or even the assistant coaches will not ever know it is happening. Coaches talk about this amongst themselves in a joking manner. We could have witnessed this occurrence last night in West Tn, but the coach chose to play and they won. This may cause his team to have a harder road to the 'boro. I think it comes down to getting to the final game. Unfortunately for the fans and at the feelings of the players on the purposely loosing team, there is not much you can do. Funny thing is, some games look thrown when the team actually never showed up to play. I say do what needs to be done to WIN. No one would ever complain if you threw a game and then won the entire State Championship!!!