TOP 10

[KCHSCoach]

Commoner thanks for taking the time to express your point, much more benifical than one liners. I know my kids benefit from the split, but I have also had medalists and even a State Champion before the split and I know how much that ment to my kids. Right now my whole team goes to the state tournament, I would much rather have my kids to go through a regional tournament, so at least if they make it to state they feel a since of accomplishment.

 

As for Father Ryan, Notre Dame and Knoxville Catholic, we are all in DII because our Bishopes state if a Catholic kid wants a Catholic education they should. In some cases the parish priest will pay for a kids tution whoes parents can not afford the tuition. We do not give finacial aide to athletes. We do not recruit. We are in this because we help our own regardless of ability, but we will not tell a kid who gets aid from his parish that he or she has to set out of athletics, which is such a vital part of the high school life and the development of youth. So please do not lump us in with "THE CHEATERS"

[walkenvol]

Commoner,

 

Produce my post where I said my son would have beaten Raines. It doesn't exist. I've never said my son would beat anybody or that McCallie as a team would beat anyone, those things are decided on the mat. I stand behind my post from last March where I made the point that many of the finals matches were not very close as was the case in both divisions of 119 lbs and that I thought a match between those two would have been a great match. There were other similar weight classes like 135 lbs. Lots of other folks jumped in with their opinions of who would have won many of those match ups. For the record, IMHO Adam would have been slightly favored in that matchup but it might have been a memorable match.

 

You along with others have posted on what you perceive that I think or want. You want to paint me as having some great hatred of Bradley or some sinister motives for discussing this topic. Confusing since I have clearly stated exactly what I think is best for TN wrestling which is for the best to compete with the best. I don't think this is the minority opinion. Most all of the top wrestlers and programs travel far and wide (Virginal Duals) in search of better competition because they know that's what's required to reach their potential. There is no current TSSAA rule prohibiting D1 and D2 schools from competing in dual meets or tournys. The only seperation is the year ending tournys. Unlike the other major D1 programs, Bradley chooses to take the spirit of that ruling and extend it to their entire season. Some (not I) have attacked them as "scared", "padding their record" or "dodging competition". Those are cheap shots at Bradley just like your cheap shot at Knoxville Catholic. I've attempted to explore the reasons for their stance and offer up a compromise to bring about some form of competition. I'm confident that McCallie meets the presplit financial aid quota on their wrestling team so if McCallie opting to not abide by the financial aid quota is the sticking point then there is no reason to not have a dual meet. Notice that this point has fallen on deaf ears. I welcome you and legman out of that foxhole. There's no war going on. We all support the same sport in the same state.

[KCHSCoach]

Commoner thanks for taking the time to express your point, much more benifical than one liners. I know my kids benefit from the split, but I have also had medalists and even a State Champion before the split and I know how much that ment to my kids. Right now my whole team goes to the state tournament, I would much rather have my kids to go through a regional tournament, so at least if they make it to state they feel a since of accomplishment.

 

As for Father Ryan, Notre Dame and Knoxville Catholic, we are all in DII because our Bishopes state if a Catholic kid wants a Catholic education they should. In some cases the parish priest will pay for a kids tution whoes parents can not afford the tuition. We do not give finacial aide to athletes. We do not recruit. We are in this because we help our own regardless of ability, but we will not tell a kid who gets aid from his parish that he or she has to set out of athletics, which is such a vital part of the high school life and the development of youth. So please do not lump us in with "THE CHEATERS"

[KCHSCoach]

Commoner thanks for taking the time to express your point, much more benifical than one liners. I know my kids benefit from the split, but I have also had medalists and even a State Champion before the split and I know how much that ment to my kids. Right now my whole team goes to the state tournament, I would much rather have my kids to go through a regional tournament, so at least if they make it to state they feel a since of accomplishment.

 

As for Father Ryan, Notre Dame and Knoxville Catholic, we are all in DII because our Bishopes state if a Catholic kid wants a Catholic education they should. In some cases the parish priest will pay for a kids tution whoes parents can not afford the tuition. We do not give finacial aide to athletes. We do not recruit. We are in this because we help our own regardless of ability, but we will not tell a kid who gets aid from his parish that he or she has to set out of athletics, which is such a vital part of the high school life and the development of youth. So please do not lump us in with "THE CHEATERS"

[hounddog]

All of you guys should be so happy that there is a split, otherwise what would you spend so much time whining about?

[Silverbullet]

Karelin-

 

I apologize to you and the McCallie faithful. I have nothing but respect for McCallie both athletically and academically and I assure you I am unbiased on this issue of the split. My analogous remark about cheaters was only intended to point out pretentiousness of those who berate Steve Logsdon and Bradley for standing up for what they believe is right. You are correct...McCallie does not cheat. However, several years ago they did get caught in a violation of the existing TSSAA rules and thus the split. Under the rules of today, there are no cheaters. Therefore no one is wrong. Any disagreement with the present format should be taken up with the TSSAA. It is fine to disagree but it is wrong to condemn someone with a different opinion.

 

You are also correct. Great programs and great coaches attract great wrestlers. Make a list of the top programs in Tennessee. In every case you will see where those programs picked up wrestlers from other programs.

 

As far as programs coming out of nowhere...you know the secret as well as I do. It's all about coaching and kids willing to put in the work.

 

KCHSCoach-

 

I understand your feelings towards the need for a regional tournament. I think many of the coaches in DII feel the same as you.

 

I sincerely sympathize with the situation of the Catholic schools. Has there ever been a request made to the TSSAA by the Catholics schools offering to limit the number of participants receiving financial aid on each team?

 

WalkenVol-

 

Ease up.

 

Yes, I do think a match between Raines and your son would have been a good one but I don't think the match you mention at 135 would have lasted long. Just my opinion.

 

No, I don't think you have a hatred of Bradley. But I do think you are hung up on having McCallie wrestle them. Why? The only reason I can come up with is because you believe McCallie will win. I've never seen anyone beg for a butt whipping. I just don't understand where your preoccupation with Bradley comes from. Many of your points are good but your offer of a match against Bradley with only kids who do not receive financial aid is a slap in face. It's like saying, "I'll wrestle you. I'll even tie one hand behind my back." Be happy wrestling Soddy and all the other D-I schools on your schedule. If the TSSAA combines the divisions and Bradley has to face McCallie then I am certain they will show up. But until then...Let it go...LET IT GO!

 

Hounddog-

It's always pleasant to hear from the Ryan contingent. Someone from the Pat Simpson camp complaining about whining is pretty funny. Have a nice day.

 

Commoner

[walkenvol]

Commoner,

 

McCallie lost the Baylor/McCallie match last year. I don't think that any of the coaches, wrestlers, or 2,000 plus spectators regret the match taking place just because their team did not win. To me, that match had the same type of electricity as the state tourny. Why? 2 quality teams with great fan support and both teams thought they had a realistic chance to win. That's the ingredients for a great HS wrestling match. Personally, I felt it a priviledge to attend. The Soddy/Bradley match has a similar atmosphere. A Bradley/McCallie match would also. Who do I think would win? Who knows? That's why it would be a great match, so I have attempted to present logical debate to bring it to fruition. Surely you don't think that these "showcase" events are not good for the sport. If its good for wrestling, then its worth my time to point out the merits. I challenge anyone to point out how a dual meet would be bad for wrestling or be bad for either team.

[Silverbullet]

Walkenvol-

 

I can't dispute a single word you say. I wholeheartedly agree. A January match between Bradley and McCallie would draw wrestling fans from everywhere. If Baylor/McCallie and Soddy/Bradley can draw 2000-2500 people, then I believe that many people might come to see a Bradley/McCallie JV match. The varsity match may draw 4,000.There is one thing Bradley and McCallie have in common. Everybody else loves to see them lose. Wrestling each other means one of 'em is walking out the door with a loss.

 

But it's not going to happen, no matter how bad anyone wants to see it. We can end this discussion by saying we both love wrestling and it's too bad the way things have worked out.

 

On another note...what is McCallie lineup going to be this year? I hear Silberman is up to about 250.[grin] You guys are loaded in the middle of the lineup. How is everyone going to fit in?

 

 

 

Posted by walkenvol:

Commoner,

 

McCallie lost the Baylor/McCallie match last year. I don't think that any of the coaches, wrestlers, or 2,000 plus spectators regret the match taking place just because their team did not win. To me, that match had the same type of electricity as the state tourny. Why? 2 quality teams with great fan support and both teams thought they had a realistic chance to win. That's the ingredients for a great HS wrestling match. Personally, I felt it a priviledge to attend. The Soddy/Bradley match has a similar atmosphere. A Bradley/McCallie match would also. Who do I think would win? Who knows? That's why it would be a great match, so I have attempted to present logical debate to bring it to fruition. Surely you don't think that these "showcase" events are not good for the sport. If its good for wrestling, then its worth my time to point out the merits. I challenge anyone to point out how a dual meet would be bad for wrestling or be bad for either team.

[walkenvol]

Commoner,

 

I agree, it is time to end this discussion for now. I only hope that legman and the handful of others who have the power to make this happen can now see that most people on both sides of the fence agree about the merits of a dual meet (not unified state tourny). What a treat it would be to provide for the wrestling fans in our area and a financial jackpot for the Bradley program.

 

As for the McCallie lineup, I don't think anyone knows yet. I believe they have 7 returning starters within a 15 lb range. I'm sure the coaches are spending lots of time trying to figure out a way to take some weight off of a couple and add some weight to a couple of others. This problem is probably shared by lots of teams and it all usually works out in the end.

 

 

Legman,

 

From your posts, I perceive that you have taken offense to the discussion on the topic. Ignoring the mud slingers, I hope that you can now see that the vast majority of wrestling fans out there hold you and the Bradley program in high esteem (me included). Considering all the positives that have been presented, I still have a hard time understanding your unwavering opposition to a dual meet but I've not walked in your shoes. I realize you have your reasons that you're not going to broadcast on this open forum. Good luck to you and your team in the upcoming season.

 

How about telling us more about your new assistant coach?

[matrat]

Posted by hounddog:

Let's have fun and predict the top 10 in division 1 and the top 5 in division 2. Here are mine. At the end of February we can look back and see who was closest.

 

Division 1 Division 2

1. Bradley Central 1. McCallie

2. Cleveland 2. MBA

3. Soddy-Daisy 3. Ryan

4. clarckville 4. Baylor

5. East Ridge 5. Christian Bros.

6. science hill

7. Franklin

[fatty4life]

with a strong returning lineup, including five favorites for state champions (Lutrell 171, Goodman 189, Thornhill 215, Cooper 275, and simpson 119) as well as a pack of 3rd and 4th place finishers returning to the lineup, MBA will proove too much for baylor, cbhs, father ryan, and maybe even mccallie. we will have to see, but MBA is going to surprise alot of people this year.

[walkenvol]

fatty4life,

 

How do you see the Simpson vs Leen matchup at 119?