TOP 10

[KCHSCoach]

I agree with you 100%, 1 sport, 1 state, 1 champion. Yes it would be best to have us all back together. But right now there is a lot of animosity on both sides. You get more bees with honey than you do with viniger is all I am saying.

[sly]

Posted by KCHSCoach:

A kid transfers to McCallie and its an advantage, a kid transfers from Baylor to Bradley and no one says a word. Hey guys it works both ways and if you say public schools don't recruit you got you head burried in the sand. Now lets just say these kids just wanted to transfer on their own, which is probably the truth, but no it has to be recruiting because he went to a DII school.

[Edited by KCHSCoach on 9-11-02 1:02P]

KCHSCoach First of all I don't think Cody Cleveland was recruited to McCallie but I do think he went there because of their wrestling program. Only time will tell if that was a good move. As far as Brad Lane goes his family lives in Bradley County and that's where he has always lived with the exception of his boarding years at Baylor. I'm not sure why Brad Lane decided to return home but whatever the reason he will have to sit out this year so I'm sure he feels it is worth it. So my guess is the reason no one is saying anything about that move woule be obvious to me and I could see where others would complain about Cleveland's move to McCallie. I do agree with you about the DI and DII split that there are too many hard feelings by both sides on that topic for anything to be done anytime soon. What some have forgotten and some haven't is that McCallie coaches and administration in a court of law and under oath admitted they had been cheating regarding the quota system that was in place.....so don't look for all DI coaches to forget anytime soon. I still find it interesting that many say lets bring DI and DII back together because it would be better for the sport. While I agree one state champ,one tournament might be better but what no does is propose a solution that both the DI and DII coaches would agree on. I don't think there is one. So what we should do is celebrate our champion"s" just like they do in other sports with multiple divisions. Instead of bad mouthing each other we should praise the accomplishments of both divisions and promote our sport.

[walkenvol]

KCHSCoach,

 

I don't think that I agree with your statement "But right now there is a lot of animosity on both sides". I believe that Steve Henry of SD, Brad Jackson of ER, Al Miller of Clev, Richard Brown of RB, and Roger Vandergriff of Hixon are all on record via articles in the Chattanooga paper as supporting one individual state tourny. This is 5 of the top 6 D1 programs in the Chattanooga area. I've never heard a D2 coach support the split. While I don't pretend to speak for others, it appears that a vocal minority are setting the rules contrary to the wishes of the majority. Like yourself, I don't believe name calling helps. Reasonable people would discuss their differences in an open forum and attempt to compromise for the betterment of the sport if possible and that is not happening. I may be wrong, but I've come to believe that some of the major players in this process (coaches, AD's, and principles) have strong personal dislikes for one another from past competitions. They may be allowing those personal feelings to interfere with sound judgement. If I'm wrong and everyone has an open mind, then this can be resolved

[walkenvol]

sly,

 

I think that Brad Lane's situation is a perfect example of how the rules are not designed in the best interest of the student. There is no reason in the world that he should be ineligable. When we were trying to decide on a high school for our son, we spoke with one of our neighbors who is the principle of a D1 high school. At the time he was also serving on the TSSAA appeals commitee. He made us aware of the rule affecting transfer to D1 if you didn't like D2 or if paying for D2 became too much of a financial strain on the family. He told me "that they had gotten that rule passed as another way to discourage kids from going to D2 schools". Selfserving and not in the best interest of the student.

 

You might also want to review your facts on the past McCallie situation. I understand that they informed the TSSAA before the school year that they would not abide by the quota rule in any sports. The school's financial aid dept quit informing the coaches of which athletes were on aid as a student privacy issue. Did they use more students receiving aid than was allowed by the quota rule? Yes. Did they sneak around and finally were caught in court? No. They made their stance known before hand. Since the TSSAA has no investigators or inforcement personel, a school could break the financial aid rules and probably never be caught if they didn't self report. This seems very different from your understanding of the facts.

[sly]

Posted by walkenvol:

sly,

 

I think that Brad Lane's situation is a perfect example of how the rules are not designed in the best interest of the student. There is no reason in the world that he should be ineligable. When we were trying to decide on a high school for our son, we spoke with one of our neighbors who is the principle of a D1 high school. At the time he was also serving on the TSSAA appeals commitee. He made us aware of the rule affecting transfer to D1 if you didn't like D2 or if paying for D2 became too much of a financial strain on the family. He told me "that they had gotten that rule passed as another way to discourage kids from going to D2 schools". Selfserving and not in the best interest of the student.

 

You might also want to review your facts on the past McCallie situation. I understand that they informed the TSSAA before the school year that they would not abide by the quota rule in any sports. The school's financial aid dept quit informing the coaches of which athletes were on aid as a student privacy issue. Did they use more students receiving aid than was allowed by the quota rule? Yes. Did they sneak around and finally were caught in court? No. They made their stance known before hand. Since the TSSAA has no investigators or inforcement personel, a school could break the financial aid rules and probably never be caught if they didn't self report. This seems very different from your understanding of the facts.

 

Walkenvol, First of all I was at the trial when it took place in Chattanooga. What transpired from the trial was McCallie sent student athletes to the witness stand to state they were receiving financial aid and without the aid they wouldn't be able to attend McCallie. What the TSSAA noticed was that some of the athletes that were taking the witness stand were not on the list given to the TSSAA from McCallie of athletes receiving financial aid.....thus the death penalty.....then you are correct McCallie did state their intentions regarding the qouta rule as you stated but it was after the trial to question the quota rule. But if you'll check with Gordon Connel, Bill Cherry or call TSSAA and you'll see that they did get caught and that's why they received the "death penalty".

[sly]

Posted by walkenvol:

sly,

 

I think that Brad Lane's situation is a perfect example of how the rules are not designed in the best interest of the student. There is no reason in the world that he should be ineligable. When we were trying to decide on a high school for our son, we spoke with one of our neighbors who is the principle of a D1 high school. At the time he was also serving on the TSSAA appeals commitee. He made us aware of the rule affecting transfer to D1 if you didn't like D2 or if paying for D2 became too much of a financial strain on the family. He told me "that they had gotten that rule passed as another way to discourage kids from going to D2 schools". Selfserving and not in the best interest of the student.

 

You might also want to review your facts on the past McCallie situation. I understand that they informed the TSSAA before the school year that they would not abide by the quota rule in any sports. The school's financial aid dept quit informing the coaches of which athletes were on aid as a student privacy issue. Did they use more students receiving aid than was allowed by the quota rule? Yes. Did they sneak around and finally were caught in court? No. They made their stance known before hand. Since the TSSAA has no investigators or inforcement personel, a school could break the financial aid rules and probably never be caught if they didn't self report. This seems very different from your understanding of the facts.

 

Walkenvol, First of all I was at the trial when it took place in Chattanooga. What transpired from the trial was McCallie sent student athletes to the witness stand to state they were receiving financial aid and without the aid they wouldn't be able to attend McCallie. What the TSSAA noticed was that some of the athletes that were taking the witness stand were not on the list given to the TSSAA from McCallie of athletes receiving financial aid.....thus the death penalty.....then you are correct McCallie did state their intentions regarding the qouta rule as you stated but it was after the trial to question the quota rule. But if you'll check with Gordon Connel, Bill Cherry or call TSSAA and you'll see that they did get caught and that's why they received the "death penalty".

[cbg]

What is the big deal with Mccallie? They did something that was against the TSSAA rules and were harshly punished. End of story; we should not even be discussing this issue now. If McCallie had not been punished then I could see how everyone would be unhappy.

With regards to the theory of 1 state champion per weight class, why not got with 1 individual tournament? If you win you are a stud and if not you will loose like 99.9% of the other athletes in the tournament. The only person that could be upset with 1 individual tournament is the coach that wants to pad his record and say that he has 5 or 6 state champions per year. This would be an opportunity for the wrestling community to take a stance and show all of the other sports that you can put your petty self serving ideas away for the betterment of the athletes, fans, and the sport of wrestling in Tennessee!!!!!

Does anyone really think that Keller, Yost, Blackmon, etc... would have been scared to wrestle in 1 big individual state tournament? No, they all knew that they were going to win before the tournament ever started because they were studs!!!! Do you think that Terry Brands would have been frightned to wrestle anyone? No, because it is a pride thing among the elite wrestlers to know that you have been able to push yourself to the limits both mentaly and physically while climbing the mountain to win a championship!!!!

[legman]

Petty, self-serving ideas??

4-5 State Champions??

Pad his record??

 

Gee CGB, who could you be referring to? Why not just send a digital picture along with your post? Or would that not be subtle enough for you?

 

Difference of opinion and debate are one thing, but making things personal will never lead to anything productive in this little debate.

 

Two quick points: (ok, not so quick)

 

Scared? Fear? Of what?? Check your record books. Bradley did fine before the split, finishing State Duals Runner up to McCallie in "93 (however, ahead of every other "DII" school) State Duals Champions in '94 (defeating Father Ryan in the finals) and State Duals Champions in '95 defeating Baylor along the way. This is to take nothing from these teams who had numerous wins against the Bears over the years, but instead only to illustrate that Bradley not only has done well recently, but before the split as well.

 

As far as the "betterment of Tennessee Wrestling", since 1997, Bradley has produced 6 All-American placings between Josh West, Rusty Blackmon and Matt Keller, finished tied for 5th at the Va. Duals in the National division in '01 and currently has 3 wrestlers competing for Coach Brands at UTC and 2 competing in the Big 12 for Ok. State and the U. of Nebraska. Additionally they have one competing in the great state of Rhode Island (his 3rd year). Seems Bradley has done at least it's fair share to shine a positive light on TN. wrestling. To insinuate that BCHS is somehow bad for TN wrestling only demonstrates your desperation. True, the match-ups could be very entertaining, but the decision not to support some DII teams is based on principal and that alone. (and we don't ask for, nor need your agreement or approval on this subject). Bradley is currently waiting for acceptance into the VA. duals again and only last night scheduled McEachern of Atlanta for a dual meet. Scared?? Of Who?? There are those who choose to cave in to criticism and those who choose to stand by what they feel is the right thing. If you and I can't agree on what the right thing is, so be it...difference is, I won't bash you publically so that all of my friends might think I'm a "great guy". Why is it that so often when a subject is brought up, it comes back around to "We could beat Bradley" or "he could beat Keller"? Be original and move on to something else.

[sly]

Posted by cbg:

What is the big deal with Mccallie? They did something that was against the TSSAA rules and were harshly punished. End of story; we should not even be discussing this issue now. If McCallie had not been punished then I could see how everyone would be unhappy.

With regards to the theory of 1 state champion per weight class, why not got with 1 individual tournament? If you win you are a stud and if not you will loose like 99.9% of the other athletes in the tournament. The only person that could be upset with 1 individual tournament is the coach that wants to pad his record and say that he has 5 or 6 state champions per year. This would be an opportunity for the wrestling community to take a stance and show all of the other sports that you can put your petty self serving ideas away for the betterment of the athletes, fans, and the sport of wrestling in Tennessee!!!!!

Does anyone really think that Keller, Yost, Blackmon, etc... would have been scared to wrestle in 1 big individual state tournament? No, they all knew that they were going to win before the tournament ever started because they were studs!!!! Do you think that Terry Brands would have been frightned to wrestle anyone? No, because it is a pride thing among the elite wrestlers to know that you have been able to push yourself to the limits both mentaly and physically while climbing the mountain to win a championship!!!!

 

cbg, Do you really believe that only one coach is preventing bringing DI and DII back together. You need to go to the coaches meeting at the state tournament next years and talk with the DI coaches or better yet get one of them if you can to ask for a vote on bringing the two divisions back together I'll promise you the vote won't be close in favor of keeping the split. Like I said before don't just say lets bring them back together....tell us how it can be done and both DI and DII will be happy with it.....my advice is don't hold your breath.

[KCHSCoach]

Hey at least we have the tournament"s" in the same city and under one roof, and thats a start. Give it time and in a 10 years it will all be back together. hopefuly sooner.

[walkenvol]

legman,

 

Nothing productive is happening in this debate because there is no debate taking place. The non mud slinging anti-spliters continue to point out concrete benefits of a unified tournament (increased revenues, better competition, more prestigous championships) while the pro-spliters defend their stance "is based on principle and that alone". What exactly is this "principle" apon which you stand? You also state that your problem is just with some D2 schools? What is your criteria by which you measure these schools to determine whether you want to compete? If you are truely interested in debate then explain the merits of the pro-split stance without using ambigous terms like "right thing", "principle", or "support the wishes of our coach".

 

If you want to wrestle McEachern and most of the other top teams in the southeast then I invite you to drive just 25 miles down I-75 and compete in the McCallie Inv.

 

 

Sly - Yes, I think that if Bradley would throw their weight behind unification instead of being the "torch bearer for division" as stated last Feb in the Chattanooga NFP, then unification would happen.

[johnsmith22]

Dear Panfan,

From reading your childish remarks, I

have concluded that you are a very ignorant

and immature person. You have no idea what

kind of beating you would recieve if you

wrestled Bradley. Furthermore, you are a

recruiting school. Bradley does not pay for

people to come to their school from other

states, cities, and schools to make their

team better. They just out work everybody!!!