High School Softball should be moved to the fall

[dore83]

Why not just play travel ball through October? Weather is good and college coaches could come see all of those players at one place during their off-season

 

Some of us do and normally play through the first weekend in November. BUT college coaches (NCAA) can't come to most of the tournaments during the fall.

 

The actual NCAA rule states: "Evaluations are not permissible from the day after Labor Day through Thanksgiving day, except from the second Friday in October through the first Sunday in November (contact/evaluation period); further, to specify that in those states that play the high school softball season in the fall, evaluations shall be permissible during the season, except during dead periods."

 

For 2009, that means they are limited to attending 4 weekends of travel tournaments. Because of that rule, there are now multiple exposure tournaments on each of those 4 weekends instead of being spread out over a couple of months in the fall, and several of these tournaments now have 200+ teams. The established exposures that used to be in September and early October are now crammed into these 4 weeks.

 

The second of the four weeks for example already has at least 6 exposures for fall 2009 so far that I know about. Elite Diamond Sports Showcase (TX); Surf City October Showcase (CA); America??™s Finest City (CA); Fall Bluechip Showcase (FL); Fall Fun College Exposure (SC); East Coast College Showcase (VA). When it was legal to evaluate throughout the fall - it was 11 weeks I believe - these tournaments were spread out over several months and there were a lot of decent smaller ones available. College coaches could afford (from a competitive recruiting standpoint) to go to a couple of these mega-exposures and spend the rest of the fall at smaller local tournaments - or they could hit 6-8 of the bigger ones (if the had the budget to travel that much) and still attend every smaller event within 200 miles of their university. The window is now so small that they are pretty much forced to travel to the big ones if they want to see the top prospects... but the expense for teams to attend these, especially from a state like Tennessee that isn't near any of these events is prohibitive for many teams with legitimate prospects. Most of the smaller, local exposures can no longer draw enough teams or college coaches and have ceased to exist. Fortunately for us in Tennessee, Ken Crook has been able to put together a nice smaller exposure the last of the 4 weekends over the past two years drawing 28 teams and about 35 college coaches. We have been going to Rising Stars (Ft Lauderdale, FL - 230 teams, 300+ coaches) and Ken's exposure the past couple of years on the last two legal evaluation weekends.

 

There are also other teams which cannot play fall travel tournaments because doing so would violate the recent TSSAA 50% rule. Although the top tier teams are generally not impacted by the 50% rule because they typically draw players from multiple schools, there are a lot of good teams with the majority of their players from one school who opt not to play fall ball rather than omit half their team and pick up a lot of other players to create a "fall only' team. A lot of other teams have traditionally chosen not to play in the fall because many of their players were required to play with their high school teams in the fall. When the 50% rule went into effect this fall, there was an increase in the number of travel teams playing fall ball, and I would expect that number to increase next fall.

 

Then there are teams which don't play in the fall because of the new TSSAA rule prohibiting all high school coaches from coaching in the fall before the HS season. There are quite a few schools who use travel ball coaches as non-faculty assistants, and some high school coaches coach travel teams as well. I'm pretty sure that Nighthawks Gold opted out of fall travel ball this year because Pat Williams serves as a non-faculty assistant at Ezell-Harding. There are several teams which chose to play and use parents to coach their travel teams in the fall instead of coaches who are affiliated with a high school as a head or assistant coach. Although I am sure that there are examples of teams where that worked out fine, I can easily name a dozen teams where it turned into a train wreck.

[bluefan23]

I am all for the change to the fall. I noticed that there are a least 2 different ASA qualifiers before school ball is over with.

I am also for changing the 50% rule for A, AA schools also. With economics the way they are, many players may not be able to play in the smaller communities unless they can play with people from their school.

[URSUS]

All this is very interesting. Help me understand a couple of things.

First, would moving HS softball to fall allow for more dates for girls to be evaluated? I agree the weather would be nicer but I still think some smaller schools that have coaches that work with multiple sports might be looking at issues. I do not know how popular moving volleyball to the spring would be. I think the Club Volleyball people might have an issue (but I really do not know enough about cub volleyball to know). I am just trying to wrap my head around the idea.

Second, wouldn't most of us agree that except for football (due to cost and liability) high school athletics are becoming increasingly less important. Basketball recruiting is done through AAU primarily, volleyball recruiting goes through club volley ball (I think) soccer plays year round and most coaches go to see summer tournaments, softball recruiting is really dominated by summer leagues (the tournaments that some of you spoke about earlier), and baseball (not quite to the extent of softball) is still recruited more heavily in the summer than during the actual HS season.

Finally by moving HS ball to the fall think about how much more practice summer ball could get going into the summer. Summer coaches would no longer be put behind the 8 ball trying to get ready for qualifier while waiting for players to finish their HS season. Wouldn't this make summer teams from TN more competitive in the summer.

[bluefan23]

All this is very interesting. Help me understand a couple of things.

First, would moving HS softball to fall allow for more dates for girls to be evaluated? I agree the weather would be nicer but I still think some smaller schools that have coaches that work with multiple sports might be looking at issues. I do not know how popular moving volleyball to the spring would be. I think the Club Volleyball people might have an issue (but I really do not know enough about cub volleyball to know). I am just trying to wrap my head around the idea.

Second, wouldn't most of us agree that except for football (due to cost and liability) high school athletics are becoming increasingly less important. Basketball recruiting is done through AAU primarily, volleyball recruiting goes through club volley ball (I think) soccer plays year round and most coaches go to see summer tournaments, softball recruiting is really dominated by summer leagues (the tournaments that some of you spoke about earlier), and baseball (not quite to the extent of softball) is still recruited more heavily in the summer than during the actual HS season.

Finally by moving HS ball to the fall think about how much more practice summer ball could get going into the summer. Summer coaches would no longer be put behind the 8 ball trying to get ready for qualifier while waiting for players to finish their HS season. Wouldn't this make summer teams from TN more competitive in the summer.

 

The other thing to that is, how many more older girls would play softball? I know alot of potentally good athletes who could do very well on a travel team not play after school ball. If you moved school ball to the fall, it would provide the break need inbetween seasons. The athletes would be more prepared and conditioned for their more competitve travel teams when spring came around.

[ldstrange]

I am in total agreement...it would solve so many problems...and in the case of my school, moving (our planned) vollyball season to the spring would ease pressure on the gym from competing basketball teams and vollyball each trying to get practice time.

 

It just makes sense...so how do we put pressure on TSSAA to make the move? As long as the move doesn't impact football I can't imagine they would really care....

[wilson25]

There are 5 states that play in the fall and 45 that play in the spring. Do the 5 that play in the fall know something that the other states don't know?

[dore83]

There are 5 states that play in the fall and 45 that play in the spring. Do the 5 that play in the fall know something that the other states don't know?

 

I think they do, but that is my opinion. The moves to the fall in other states have all been very recent. Softball has historically been seen as the female version of boys baseball, and baseball is never going to be considered a candidate to be moved into football season. I doubt that any thought was given when softball was introduced on a wide scale as a high school sport to place it anywhere else other than in the spring with baseball.

 

Changing to the fall in quite a few of those 45 states isn't necessary or wouldn't make much of a difference. In much of California, the weather allows for year round softball. Southern California, for example has so many teams trying to play 18 Gold that they had series of qualifying tournaments in January to determine which teams were going to be allowed to play Gold and who would be assigned to 18U A once the Gold Nationals Qualifiers start in May. California, by the way, doesn't have a state softball tournament (or football for that matter). It is so big that they have Sectional Championships. In Kentucky, they already move the softball season back later in the spring. Their district tournaments are the same week as our Spring Fling and their State isn't until June 5-6. Plus, unless they have changed their rules this year, Kentucky players are not prohibited from playing on independent (travel) teams during their season, much less during the fall with some version of 50% rule. Tons of northern states - at least 17 - don't play State until June, with Maine's being on June 20th this year. For a lot of those states, they probably couldn't move softball to the fall because they often get winter weather in early October. States with better weather than we have are able to end much earlier. Louisiana's State is at the end of April. Mississippi and Florida are the next week. Quite a few fall when we have our districts.

 

Anyway, all but one of the states moving to the fall have weather patterns which are very similar to Tennessee. I'm sure that there are people who don't like it - there is always a group which dissents on something - but everybody I've spoken to in those states are very happy with their decisions to move. A couple of years ago, we traveled to Oklahoma City the first weekend in June to play in an exposure the same time the Women's College World Series was being played. We played our games in the morning and went to WCWS games in the evening. One of the best trips we have ever taken by the way. Of our 6 games, we drew Missouri Madness, Oklahoma Rebels, TC Stars, (Colorado) Stars, St Louis Spirit, and Georgia (Heat or Pride - I don't remember off the top of my head) along with a Florida team. We did very well, and even though we were winning games, there was a noticeable difference in the way those 5 teams from HS fall ball states played as they had 6-10 tournaments under their belts while we were comng straight out of high school ball. They were clicking in full gear by the time they started playing in National Qualifiers and the big college exposures... and they all loved playing HS ball in the fall and having an uninterrupted spring/summer for travel. College coaches aren't too interested in who wins exposure games, and those players who have been playing travel for 2-3 months against top level competition are much smoother and polished with more intensity and a higher level mental game than those coming straight out of high school ball, and have a decided advantage in impressing coaches. I digress. Sorry.

 

Unfortunately, I doubt if there are a lot of state governing boards who have softball on the top of their concern or interest list, and most of those 45 states won't bother considering it unless 1) they get a lot of pressure, 2) they get a executive director with daughters tied to softball, or 3) they see lots of other states start to make the move. They have to have softball because of Title IX and most view it as a minor sport that is the girls equivalent to baseball. But I feel pretty certain if the NCAA changed their recruiting rules for football or if football evolved in the way softball or basketball has with travel and AAU and it was seen as advantageous to move football to the winter or spring, it would be changed in a heartbeat without discussion or hesitation... and I would be willing to wager almost any amount of money that there would never be any form of 50% rule put in place for football in the fall before the HS season. I digress again. Sorry again.

 

The world isn't going to come to an end if TSSAA never considers moving softball to the fall. But I think those 5 states made a terrific decision. Far less hassle with weather issues. Far less weather related injuries. Far better for those girls with aspirations to play collegiate softball. I do, however, believe that Tennessee isn't that far away from seeing a growing number of collegiate prospects foregoing HS softball in favor of spring travel over the next few years.

[dore83]

All this is very interesting. Help me understand a couple of things.

First, would moving HS softball to fall allow for more dates for girls to be evaluated?

 

Very likely - NCAA won't add to the 50 total currently allowed, but coaches can start evaluating on Jan 2.

I agree the weather would be nicer but I still think some smaller schools that have coaches that work with multiple sports might be looking at issues.

 

That is very possible. In some places, football coaches serve as softball coaches... but eliminating some of them might not be a bad thing. /dry.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

I do not know how popular moving volleyball to the spring would be. I think the Club Volleyball people might have an issue (but I really do not know enough about cub volleyball to know).

 

I don't know the answer to that either. I'm sure that some would object, but some always object to change. I would think their biggest complaint and concern would be TSSAA altering the 50% rule so it applied to them since they would no longer be a fall sport.

Second, wouldn't most of us agree that except for football (due to cost and liability) high school athletics are becoming increasingly less important.

 

I agree

Finally by moving HS ball to the fall think about how much more practice summer ball could get going into the summer. Summer coaches would no longer be put behind the 8 ball trying to get ready for qualifier while waiting for players to finish their HS season. Wouldn't this make summer teams from TN more competitive in the summer.

 

I strongly agree

 

Someone below also mentioned older players participating if softball was moved to fall. I don't have any data to support that idea, but generally speaking, I think that is a very legitimate argument. I've known of a lot of seniors who are pretty good high school players but have no plans to play college softball... who decided that if they were going to spend their last spring in high school out in the sun, they were going to do it in some recreational/social activity instead of softball. I think that a lot of them would still hold an interest in playing in the fall of their senior year.

 

The other advantage to fall ball for college prospects is that the fall State tournaments come before the November signing period (and the JUCO January signing period). The State tournament is about the only time college coaches show up for high school ball any more - very sparse attendance, but a few will show. By the time the Spring Fling and summer season following graduation rolls around, very little money or roster spots will be left available.

[URSUS]

Why would players be willing to pass up opportunities to be seen in fall exposure tournaments to play HS softball? Especially if the goal is to play at the next level. I would think that a lot of summer ball coaches who really specialize in helping softball players earn scholarships would stress the importance of the top notch softball players needing to play in those tournaments. Realistically what is the motivation for the softball elite to play HS ball either in the fall or the spring? I am interested in hearing some peoples opinions on the subject.

[CoachT]

Why would players be willing to pass up opportunities to be seen in fall exposure tournaments to play HS softball? Especially if the goal is to play at the next level. I would think that a lot of summer ball coaches who really specialize in helping softball players earn scholarships would stress the importance of the top notch softball players needing to play in those tournaments. Realistically what is the motivation for the softball elite to play HS ball either in the fall or the spring? I am interested in hearing some peoples opinions on the subject.

 

What % of players sign scholarships and would that % change if the changes you talk about were made?

 

Do "top notch" players need extra exposure?

[URSUS]

What % of players sign scholarships and would that % change if the changes you talk about were made?

 

Do "top notch" players need extra exposure?

 

 

CoachT that is a great question. /thumb[1].gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumb:" border="0" alt="thumb[1].gif" /> I am really looking forward to hearing some peoples opinions.

[stlbrd]

What % of players sign scholarships and would that % change if the changes you talk about were made?

 

Do "top notch" players need extra exposure?

 

Any "extra" exposure is good. Believe it or not, "top notch" players are not the only ones signing scholarships.

 

I think the two biggest issues would be the weather and the amount of time they spend on competetive travel teams. As is it is now, 5-6 tournaments in the summer compared to the 12-15 Georgia teams are playing in, is not a level playing field. The chances to qualify for ASA Nationals are decreased since TN girls are playing high school in May. One of our qualifiers is THE DAY after the high school state tournament.

 

The weather is the biggest issue. If any of you have girls playing high school softball, you had to have heard it more than once. Our team played two tournaments last year, one with snow on the outfield grass and one when it WAS snowing. If I am not mistaken, I believe the weather did not turn until midway through our district schedule.

 

Like I have stated before, it makes WAY too much sense........ I guess the ones who disagree have not stood outside the fence with hand warmers in their pockets and shoes, watching their daughter get the flu while "trying" to play with three layers of clothes on.