High School Softball should be moved to the fall

[dore83]

Why would players be willing to pass up opportunities to be seen in fall exposure tournaments to play HS softball? Especially if the goal is to play at the next level. I would think that a lot of summer ball coaches who really specialize in helping softball players earn scholarships would stress the importance of the top notch softball players needing to play in those tournaments. Realistically what is the motivation for the softball elite to play HS ball either in the fall or the spring? I am interested in hearing some peoples opinions on the subject.

 

What % of players sign scholarships and would that % change if the changes you talk about were made?

 

Do "top notch" players need extra exposure?

 

 

I was a little hesitant to answer the last few posts. I've pretty much dominated this thread and I don't want to come across in the wrong way through topic monopolization. And I realize I am far too wordy - and I tend to chase rabbits.

 

A lot of college prospects don't have the opportunity to participate in fall exposures because of a number of reasons: Cost of travel; fewer weekends available and fewer exposure events; many teams don't play fall ball (historically because of the conflict with what used to be high school fall leagues before the 50% rule kicked in); others don't play because their coaches are prohibited by the new TSSAA rule from coaching in the fall; etc.

 

It isn't necessarily an either or situation. I don't know the dates for Fall 2009 High School State Tournaments, but in 2008, NE was Oct 8-10 as was OK small school. MO, CO, and OK large school was Oct 17-18. GA was the next week. That means that except for the girls on teams in the final 4 or 8 of the various fall state tournaments could play most or all of the fall exposures without conflict, and all, even those who went to their State finals, had 1-3 of the 4 legal evaluation weeks available to them.

 

I don't know the % of players who sign college scholarships. Like all sports, those who sign are in the (significant) minority when compared to those don't sign. The percentage - or at least the number of players - for a sport like softball would be higher than other sports like basketball or volleyball because softball is an "equivalency" sport and BB and VB are "head count" sports. Head count sports in the NCAA can only offer full rides. They cannot give partials. In D1 Womens BB gets 15, but not all teams use 15. Others aren't fully funded (i.e. the school only gives the team 10 or 13). VB gets 12 if they are fully funded. Softball gets 12 and as an Equivalency sport, they can divide those 12 into partials that are split among multiple players. There are precious few "full rides" in softball - I realize that if you add up all the softball scholarships that we hear are "full rides" every Division I team would have to have 20 full ride players, but that isn't the case. The average D1 roster is about 20 players. Most or all of them commonly receive some level of athletic scholarship money - perhaps only 10-20%, but they are still signed to an athletic scholarship. College softball coaches are also very creative with getting academic and other non-athletic scholarships and aid for players and work very hard to come up with the extra money. BB and VB coaches don't have to do that because they can't give partials. The rules and numbers of scholarships are a little different for D2 and NAIA schools, but they still follow the same general patterns.

 

Would the percentage change? Maybe. Possibly. The vast majority of softball scholarships go to players from states such as California, Arizona, Texas, and Florida, for example, primarily because those states have the large populations along with weather to play year round. No matter what we do in TN, we won't ever achieve a status which compares to southern California in travel ball especially at the 16UA or 18 Gold levels, but we can match them on a smaller scale by improving what we have. Travel teams playing in the spring have a decided advantage when they show up at ASA National Qualifiers and College Exposure events. As a general rule, I estimate that it takes 2-3 tournaments to get a team to a point where they gel and are clicking and playing with confidence. With HS ball in the spring, we generally get 6-7 weekends of tournament play in the summer. By moving to the fall, our teams can get all of that out of the way in April, refine in May, and be hitting on all cylinders when the National Qualifiers and Exposures hit in June.

 

As it is now, there is a natural break at the first of August when Nationals have been completed. Rosters change for natural reasons - players graduate and move on to college; players have to move up to older age groups; the natural season has been completed and it is a logical time for parents, players, and coaches to evaluate what is best for them and their teams for the next year. Once Nationals have been completed, it is time to start building for the next year, and fall ball is the time when teams move up to the next age group. While we play from June 1 through November 1, normally with a break in August and perhaps early September when teams are holding tryouts for the next year and there are only a handful of tournaments, summer and fall are basically two seasons. With HS in the fall, the natural season would be late October showcases through late July Nationals without the Feb-May hiatus because of spring HS softball. That set up certainly would NOT hurt the TN percentages, and would likely help.

 

Do top notch players need more exposure? I think the answer is without a doubt a resounding YES. Rivals, Scout, and other recruiting information sites might have video and ratings for every average to superstar football and boys basketball player in the country, but good luck finding any information on top notch HS aged softball players. There has long been an assumption among some that "if a player is good enough, college coaches will find them." Maybe that holds a little truth for the top 1% at best. The battlefield is littered with multitudes of top notch players who believed that myth but were never found. I see some tremendous players every weekend who are so far under the radar that they'll likely never be spotted simply because they don't know what they need to do to be "discovered" and haven't gotten the exposure to be found. College softball recruiting budgets are woefully minuscule.

 

I don't know how many "top notch" players are out there or how you define top notch. But I do know that there are tons of legitimate college prospects in TN right now. As far as I am concerned, my definition of top notch would be potential college prospect. If the top 1% (or less) aren't getting enough exposure, I can assure you that the remaining 99% certainly are not. For every hour I spend on the field for practices and games, I easily spend 5 off the field attempting to "expose" and "sell" our players.

 

Finally... I am not the right person to ask about motivation for top level players to play HS softball. In the vast majority of cases, I personally believe that better athletes take a step backward during the HS season. That is merely my opinion, and I am sure that there are many who disagree and that there are exceptions. I could quickly name 3-4 dozen high school starters in the area who have told me personally over the past few weeks that the only reason they are playing HS ball is because there isn't any other alternative and at least they get some batting practice against live pitching during games. I think there would be more motivation - especially given what I have written in previous posts - for them to play in the fall than in the spring. Again, I sincerely believe we are literally one coach with my mindset who puts together a "spring team" away from seeing many college prospects move out of spring HS softball completely. I would expect that others would quickly follow suit, if for no reason other than fear that those who participate on that original team would gain an advantage over their daughters.

[tnfisher]

dore,

I don't really disagree with any of your thoughts. You are very well-spoken(typed). /tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":P" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" /> However, I think you might underestimate the desire for even top-level girls to compete with their classmates and have the hometown name on the front of the jersey. Just a thought.

[wilson25]

Who cares about summer ball?

[stlbrd]

Who cares about summer ball?

 

I believe that would be the girls................

[bigchief]

I believe that would be the girls................

 

I bet the correct answer for over half of them would be the DADDY.

[Mr knowitall]

Who cares about summer ball?

 

The ones that want to play at the next level!!!!!

[dore83]

dore,

I don't really disagree with any of your thoughts. You are very well-spoken(typed). /tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":P" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" /> However, I think you might underestimate the desire for even top-level girls to compete with their classmates and have the hometown name on the front of the jersey. Just a thought.

 

That is very possible and I don't disagree with you about that. I certainly don't want to imply that all top-level players want to bail on high school softball, or that I am speaking for anybody other than myself. I spend a lot of time with my players and the players who workout at my facility and most of them are very, very frustrated with school ball every year. But, there are a lot of good players who enjoy playing school ball for the reasons you mentioned. There seems to be a greater tendency for attachment to smaller schools than there is for larger ones, especially if they are rural schools, and a greater desire to play school ball for those who are on teams with a legitimate shot at the state tournament. I would think that the caliber of coaching would also be a fairly significant factor.

 

If I started a spring travel team this year, I have several players on our summer team who would probably opt for school ball - with my blessing and support. I have one who really enjoys her high school team (AA) and her coaches and wouldn't even consider it. They have also been to state the past two years. I have three others who are on teams which won or came in 3rd at State last year in A and while I haven't had this discussion with them, I'd expect that they would rather take a shot at repeating with their school. On the other hand, I had 3 the last couple of years who didn't play school ball but went on to play college ball and another one this year who isn't playing, and none of them had an alternative. But, I also have another player who enjoys the "big dog" status in every sport at her school who I always assumed would be one who would opt for school ball if she had to make a choice - but she saw this thread last night and sent me an email that said "Please start a spring team this year. I want to play."

 

The desire for an alternative seems to have a direct correlation to the strength of the player's travel team and the caliber of coaching and scheduling on that team. It is often very difficult for players to spend the summer playing with a very strong cast of teammates against some of the best teams in the region and country and then return to school teams without any of those elements.

 

Please don't interpret my comments as anything other than my opinion - or in any way derogatory to players who want to play school ball. I don't see anything wrong with having a desire to wear the hometown name on the front of your jersey and represent your school. My daughter plays school ball and I proudly support her and her team.

[TBALLEXPERT]

Give some reasons why or why not the TSSAA should move softball to the fall. /flower.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":flower:" border="0" alt="flower.gif" />

[Antwan]

Give some reasons why or why not the TSSAA should move softball to the fall. /flower.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":flower:" border="0" alt="flower.gif" />

 

 

There's been numerous threads on the subject. Some say the weather is better in the fall. Some say you don't get enough games in the fall. Some say players are better adapted due to just ending summer travel ball. Some don't want to move other sports...mainly volleyball. Is there any more to be said? The tssaa will not move softball anytime soon. It's really a moot point.

[5-Sport Dad]

Unfortunately, 'twan is right. But, the debate is still not goin' away. Maybe the new guy at T$$AA will open a customer complaint department OR hire a '(public) school defender (advocate)' to represent the downtrodden. /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />

[catchman]

I started coaching travel ball in the earl 90s, The difference I see between High schhol Ball and travel, In most cases, the travel team has at least 8 girls on the field that really want to be there. Even some of daddy girls want to be there at times. In High school ball, you are luck to have 5 that really want to be on the field, With the hitts tourney and other exposier tourneys being held,, I think the girls may get more looks in travel ball, Just my thought.

[URSUS]

I started coaching travel ball in the earl 90s, The difference I see between High schhol Ball and travel, In most cases, the travel team has at least 8 girls on the field that really want to be there. Even some of daddy girls want to be there at times. In High school ball, you are luck to have 5 that really want to be on the field, With the hitts tourney and other exposier tourneys being held,, I think the girls may get more looks in travel ball, Just my thought.

 

 

Certainly there are Hs where there might only be 5 girls that really want to be there but I think there are HS where everyone of the girls is super committed. I have seen both types of programs.

I guess I am still up in the air on whether moving the sport to the fall is best for the "sport" or best for certain players. I also wonder about motives of "keep it in the spring" camp as well. It seems to me there is still an underlying sense that HS has become useless to some people and that summer league ball is where players should be focusing all there efforts. I wonder if this is also best for the game of softball. But I might be bringing up some things that no one else sees as issues. I wish I could say that I am 100% sure of the answer but I honestly do not know.