Coach Darden Out at CAK

[IrishBBall]

if football actually moved up to 3A like they should have, you wouldnt be able to say they'd be on the rise.

 

theyd get killed EVERY GAME. sort of like an alcoa game every week.

 

and by the way you missed a win in 07-08

 

I just added up them numbers provided by Indiangiver. I wasn't just referring to the football, the baseball team has improved and both soccer teams have done very well. Since you seem to know the exact numbers, what was the overall record not just the district games over the past four years?

 

I heard today that they had 3 candidates in mind. Shane Wells from Lenoir City and the coach from Union County seem to be the frontrunners. Any one else heard anything?

 

I understand the AD was out of town at the end of the week due to a death in the family.

[GovMan]

I just added up them numbers provided by Indiangiver. I wasn't just referring to the football, the baseball team has improved and both soccer teams have done very well. Since you seem to know the exact numbers, what was the overall record not just the district games over the past four years?

 

I heard today that they had 3 candidates in mind. Shane Wells from Lenoir City and the coach from Union County seem to be the frontrunners. Any one else heard anything?

 

I understand the AD was out of town at the end of the week due to a death in the family.

 

 

It would surprise me if Coach Wells left LC. He's worked hard there and should really enjoy some of the fruits of his labor this upcoming season.

[TheSultan]

This synopsis is remarkably accurate, Sultan. Thanks for the insight.

 

Well, I went to CAK for many years during that time I had the misfortune of encountering "those parents." Parents that practically lived at the school and were so involved with their kid's life that there was no separation. The parents were living through their kids, which isn't fair to either party. At some point in time they need to put on their big boy/girl panties and own up to the fact that they need their own life.

[theusainboltofhstrack]

I just added up them numbers provided by Indiangiver. I wasn't just referring to the football, the baseball team has improved and both soccer teams have done very well. Since you seem to know the exact numbers, what was the overall record not just the district games over the past four years?

 

I heard today that they had 3 candidates in mind. Shane Wells from Lenoir City and the coach from Union County seem to be the frontrunners. Any one else heard anything?

 

I understand the AD was out of town at the end of the week due to a death in the family.

 

 

Yeah but the Athletic Director doesn't make decisions involving CAK athletics, you would need to refer the hiring ? to the "administration". I dont even know why CAK has an AD, because they have an "administration" that handles things. and since Coach D has been here, to answer your question in a more body of work fashion, he posted a 66-64 record. and about the coaching...they better get one fast, because their gonna lose a lot of recruits if they dont get someone in there.

[shnikens]

I just added up them numbers provided by Indiangiver. I wasn't just referring to the football, the baseball team has improved and both soccer teams have done very well. Since you seem to know the exact numbers, what was the overall record not just the district games over the past four years?

 

I heard today that they had 3 candidates in mind. Shane Wells from Lenoir City and the coach from Union County seem to be the frontrunners. Any one else heard anything?

 

I understand the AD was out of town at the end of the week due to a death in the family.

 

 

1. What does "improve" mean? The baseball team has had 3 D1 prospects (by my count, there may be more) in the time that coach Darden has been at the school (I use this measurement since we are comparing these 2 teams), and they went or are going to go to decent/good baseball programs (Clemson, Memphis, and Vanderbilt). The basketball team has had 2 players, both of which were on the state tournament team, that were offered scholarships to play at SMALL schools since he has been there. You can either look at it two ways: the basketball team never had the talent while Darden was there, or he never groomed any talent. It seems to me that the latter argument is pretty ludicrous. Your chance at "improving" a program usually has a lot to do with talent and/or, to be fair, utilizing new ideas and new schemes (i.e. Pearl's use of the players he inherited at UT when he first came here was, I believe, a case of both; Lofton/Smith, etc. plus the run and gun worked pretty darn well). So, whoever is the next coach, hopefully they will bring that breath of fresh air into the program that the AD (and lets be honest, the parents, too, because they are the ones who really run the school) is hoping for. By the way, the basketball team improved greatly this year, too, DESPITE not having any seniors and just 2 juniors (again, another point that could be argued 2 ways).

 

2. CAK soccer never had to move up a division, so you can throw both of those teams (girls and guys) out of the discussion. Please realize that they still play teams (like Oneida last week) that don't even have regulation size fields. CAK is a soccer school, first and foremost, and it has always been that way, partly because they have a history of good talent but also becuase they play pretty weak teams. So, please also note that if they had to move up, they would be playing against teams like Farragut and Bearden and definitely would not have the same kind of success that they've been fortunate to have in the past. Just look at CAK's record against these teams, and you will get a picture of what it would look like. You know well enough, IrishBball, that it will be a tough move next year for you guys when you move up in basketball and football (and maybe other sports, I'm not familiar enough with the situation to know). If Catholic's parents are the same as CAK parents, Hutch will want to watch his back just as Coach Darden had to at CAK.

 

3. Shane Wells is an outstanding person and a good coach. He would be a good option for CAK (I do not know the UC coach). However, CAK is doing a "national" search for a coach, so this process may take a while. Maybe they should save the money they are spending on this "national" search and distribute it to their grossly underpaid contract workers who get paid crap for compensation and then have to pay taxes on their stipends on top of that.

[Natureboy]

The union co. coach has a brother in law who was on the board who fired Coach Darden. Coincidence or conflict of interest?. He appears to be a good coach but he yells and demands performance from his players. He also has some talent coming back at Union although they will no longer be playing in a cream puff district. Irish bball you are crazy if you say take Novikoff out and then look at the numbers. There are transfers in every program and you coach the team you have. I guess Pearl should not be rewarded for having Tyler Smith or Prince. Since they transferred in. Regardless I think we can all agree that Cak has not been as competitive but would have been next year under Darden. The new coach should be left alone and not second-guessed by "experts" who played a little in college. This parent really made it impossible for Coach Darden. It is a fine line as a parent to walk in supporting your child and also supporting the coach. No matter who the coach is they are not perfect in the eyes of every parent or player. It is so easy to sit in the stands and critique. It is much more rewarding in the long run to teach your kid to persevere and respect authority. It is also biblical but why should we go there it is still a Christian school last I checked.

[Govolsknox]

. CAK is a soccer school, first and foremost, and it has always been that way, partly because they have a history of good talent but also becuase they play pretty weak teams. So, please also note that if they had to move up, they would be playing against teams like Farragut and Bearden and definitely would not have the same kind of success that they've been fortunate to have in the past.

 

I'm not a big soccer fan, but I'll throw out a couple of observations regarding CAK soccer and your comments.

 

CAK does play some pretty weak teams, but they also play some pretty good teams. To win 5 state championships in a row, it seems to me you're playing whoever lines up in front of you once it gets to tournament time.

 

We're in trouble if the measure of CAK's soccer team becomes how they do against the likes of Farragut and Bearden. I don't have figures in front of me, but over the last several years I believe those schools have in the range of 1500 - 2200 students while CAK has around 450, and less 4-5 years ago when the run began.

 

I'll also toss out that I appreciate Irishbball's comments about the CAK position being attractive to a prospective coach. Regardless of how you feel about the recent termination, there are a lot of reasons to think that the school can develop a competitive team. Whatever you think of the parents, the school has been able to field very competitive teams in a number of other sports, and I don't think men's basketball will be any different.

[shnikens]

Please allow me to explain myself further. I was not trying to take anything away from the soccer team at CAK. They've done a great job, and G is obviously a great coach. When the multiplier was put into effect, the soccer team did not have to move up a class because 1A and 2A are already coupled together in soccer. However, since basketball is broken down into three classes (1A, 2A, and 3A), CAK had to move up from 1A to 2A. CAK used to play teams like Greenback, Midway, Cosby, and TSD, but then they had to play Catholic, AC, Kingston, Loudon, Stone Memorial, etc. (a little stiffer competition). If CAK soccer had to move up a class like the basketball team had to, maybe their results would be a little different. We need to take these things into account when comparing teams. I know they play good teams. I made the point that they play Farragut and Bearden and the like. But, those games don't count towards their district record or postseason play.

 

I'd also like to note how much emphasis we are putting on wins and losses here when everyone says it's all about the kids.

[theusainboltofhstrack]

Please allow me to explain myself further. I was not trying to take anything away from the soccer team at CAK. They've done a great job, and G is obviously a great coach. When the multiplier was put into effect, the soccer team did not have to move up a class because 1A and 2A are already coupled together in soccer. However, since basketball is broken down into three classes (1A, 2A, and 3A), CAK had to move up from 1A to 2A. CAK used to play teams like Greenback, Midway, Cosby, and TSD, but then they had to play Catholic, AC, Kingston, Loudon, Stone Memorial, etc. (a little stiffer competition). If CAK soccer had to move up a class like the basketball team had to, maybe their results would be a little different. We need to take these things into account when comparing teams. I know they play good teams. I made the point that they play Farragut and Bearden and the like. But, those games don't count towards their district record or postseason play.

 

I'd also like to note how much emphasis we are putting on wins and losses here when everyone says it's all about the kids.

 

 

ya how did that multiplier not catch the football team, kind of embarrassing to say that your bball program and your football program are in the same division when there's two more divisions in play in football than their are in bball. and regarding soccer pshhhhhhhhhhhhhh the US doesnt even respect that game.

[Knox2]

Please allow me to explain myself further. I was not trying to take anything away from the soccer team at CAK. They've done a great job, and G is obviously a great coach. When the multiplier was put into effect, the soccer team did not have to move up a class because 1A and 2A are already coupled together in soccer. However, since basketball is broken down into three classes (1A, 2A, and 3A), CAK had to move up from 1A to 2A. CAK used to play teams like Greenback, Midway, Cosby, and TSD, but then they had to play Catholic, AC, Kingston, Loudon, Stone Memorial, etc. (a little stiffer competition). If CAK soccer had to move up a class like the basketball team had to, maybe their results would be a little different. We need to take these things into account when comparing teams. I know they play good teams. I made the point that they play Farragut and Bearden and the like. But, those games don't count towards their district record or postseason play.

 

I'd also like to note how much emphasis we are putting on wins and losses here when everyone says it's all about the kids.

 

 

Well said, but I will say that I don't know how you have a discussion about an athletic program and how succussful it has been without discussing wins and losses. Rhetoric aside, I doubt you can find a parent of a CAK athlete who really thinks that winning is the only important thing. I just think that there are a number of parents who think it's ok to want the teams to be competitive year in / year out along with the other things that make CAK athletics special.

[shnikens]

Well said, but I will say that I don't know how you have a discussion about an athletic program and how succussful it has been without discussing wins and losses. Rhetoric aside, I doubt you can find a parent of a CAK athlete who really thinks that winning is the only important thing. I just think that there are a number of parents who think it's ok to want the teams to be competitive year in / year out along with the other things that make CAK athletics special.

 

 

If you look back at all of the posts made on this thread, you will not find any that say anything negative toward Coach Darden's character or his ability to teach the game or his teams' ability to improve. These are the things that REALLY matter. The kids need to learn the game and show that they have learned it by improving throughout the year. I would say that EVERYONE who has played through Coach Darden's program at CAK would vouch for that statement, and I know for a fact they find it offensive that people keep saying that the basketball program has not been competitive. Sometimes, things just don't work out. No one school has to be or realistically can be as competitive as people think they should be in every sport. Do we want Austin-East to have a "competitive" soccer team? Do you think it's all about being "competitive" at TSD? Let's be honest, this is mostly about wins and losses. You said yourself that you can't judge an athletic program's success without it. But, not even you have said anything negative about Coach Darden or his ability to teach the game or his teams' ability to improve throughout the year. I bet all of Coach's former players would have no problem letting their son play for him at CAK.

 

If CAK had been "competitive" and had been to the district championship game every year for the last four years, we would not even be in this conversation. We are masking the wins and losses argument with the word "competitive." The parents probably would not say that it's all about wins and losses, but there might actually be a difference between what they say and what they think.

[Knox2]

If you look back at all of the posts made on this thread, you will not find any that say anything negative toward Coach Darden's character or his ability to teach the game or his teams' ability to improve. These are the things that REALLY matter. The kids need to learn the game and show that they have learned it by improving throughout the year. I would say that EVERYONE who has played through Coach Darden's program at CAK would vouch for that statement, and I know for a fact they find it offensive that people keep saying that the basketball program has not been competitive. Sometimes, things just don't work out. No one school has to be or realistically can be as competitive as people think they should be in every sport. Do we want Austin-East to have a "competitive" soccer team? Do you think it's all about being "competitive" at TSD? Let's be honest, this is mostly about wins and losses. You said yourself that you can't judge an athletic program's success without it. But, not even you have said anything negative about Coach Darden or his ability to teach the game or his teams' ability to improve throughout the year. I bet all of Coach's former players would have no problem letting their son play for him at CAK.

 

If CAK had been "competitive" and had been to the district championship game every year for the last four years, we would not even be in this conversation. We are masking the wins and losses argument with the word "competitive." The parents probably would not say that it's all about wins and losses, but there might actually be a difference between what they say and what they think.

 

 

I agree with everything you said, except perhaps the last sentence. If you could get into the parents minds that you are speaking of, I don't believe you would find many, perhaps any, that really feel that the only thing that is important is wins and losses. If they felt that way, they wouldn't be at CAK. If it was all about W & L, there are a host of other schools that have offered more wins in men's basketball than CAK. They didn't choose CAK because winning in basketball is all they care about. If those parents had the choice to get the best coaching imaginable but had to take with it poor moral character that would be a lousy role model for their kid, I don't believe they'd take that deal. Sometimes in a discussion like this that can be very emotional for people close to the situation(I'm not saying you) , there is a tendency to act as if you can't have a strong Christian coach with high moral character and have a competitive program. This simply is not the case. There are plenty of examples from schools other than CAK where the program is competitive and the leadership is also of strong moral character. Certainly, at CAK, Coach G in soccer, coach Bradley in football, and coach Treadway in middle school football are a few examples of this as well. Someone posted the district record for CAK over the last several years earlier in this thread. You can see the wins and losses, and you can see the direction of the competitiveness of the team. It may be that not 1% of this outcome is due to the Coach, but should anyone really be shocked that a change was considered? I don't know if the administration handled it well or handled it poorly, but my guess is that there is no way that they could have handled it that wouldn't have upset his former players and friends.