High School Coaches running summer ball

[Imatiger]

The problem is that you are coming from a biased opinion. You assume that elite travel ball is better than playing for your high school in the summer. Maybe in your case, with the high school your son attends, that is true. Here is my problem with travel ball. Most teams charge at least $1,000 to play and you might get 30 games. Also, those coaches have nothing invested in the players. If a pitcher goes out and throws 150 pitches and gets hurt, oh well, at least we won. Then the high school team is punished because that coach is just in it to win games. There is also less discipline on travel teams. I have seen kids roll in about 15 minutes before the start of the game, throw their stuff on, and go play. That is not the right way to do things and the kid learns bad habits. Also, there is nothing prohibiting a high schoool team from playing travel teams in the summer. I know Columbia played the Donelson Cardinals and went to the 18U Sandlott World Series and the 17U Sandlott World Series and their kids paid a lot less than ANY travel team would charge. Also, playing for these travel teams does not get you more exposure. That is a misconception. The college coaches are going to watch the good players regardless of where they are playing. Columbia has put a lot of players in college and have kept their high school team together for the past 10 years. Last point, if the better players stay with the high school team it does a few things to benefit everybody. the younger players can watch how the better guys do things and learn from it, and the colleges coaches that come watch the older players also get a chance to see other players on that team that they may not have otherwise seen. It does nothing but benefit the program to keep them all together. And if you were wondering, i played a year of travel ball in high school as well as playing with my high school team. I didn't want anyone to think I had never expeienced the alternative so why should I speak on it.

 

 

Well now I think this is coming from a biased opinion also. I have coached high school and travel and you can find bad coaches in both as well as you can find good coaches in both. That is what makes the difference in which side of this discussion you would be on. My team was $500 and we played anywhere from 40-55 games the past few years while playing in many states and college venues. Discipline was not an issue with mine because if I had any problems (which I didn't) the parents would be given their money back and told to take their son home. You will have high school coaches that will throw a kid 150 pitches a game also. Or throw him 90-100 on Monday and then come back with him again on Thursday or Friday. Just look at every team that competes in Spring Fling and tell me that those guys aren't getting overthrown. My pitchers rarely threw over 100 pitches because I had other guys that were in relief and they always sat the next game if they were a position player also. And there is no way a kid will get more exposure playing high school summer ball than travel ball if they only play other high school teams during the summer. A ton of high school coaches don't do anything in the summer or never make the first call to a college coach for any of their players. What are those kids supposed to do for exposure? The only way those kids get seen by college coaches in the summer is if they are playing in a travel tournament, which goes back to not being a high school summer team because coaches are there to see the better teams. Columbia has sent players to college because they have excellent high school coaches, but they also have an excellent legion program. Have played them many times and they are always top notch.

 

And David, summer programs like Columbia and Riverdale are way more the exception instead of the rule. How many summer programs play East Cobb teams and travel to Memphis and Kentucky and Florida and other places to play quality teams. Somebody has to be paying for that. If it is the parents, what is the difference in paying a fee up front for a travel team? You wont find 5 teams across the state that has a summer program like Columbia or Riverdale. We played Riverdale in Murfeesboro summer before last and they were very solid. But other than Dyersburg or Dyer County, you wouldn't find another high school summer team that is made up of just it's players that would even come close to playing at the level of Columbia or Riverdale. It's just not there. I resigned at a school this summer that only had 5 kids that wanted to play summer ball. The rest had to work or didn't want to play. I don't want kids out there in the summer that don't want to play. The year before we played Mon-Thurs as another posted suggested and then I took my travel team on weekends and let my other 3 guys that played travel have the weekends to travel.

 

I am not arguing against high school summer ball or for it. With the right coaches at either or both a player can really prosper. Just sounded to me like stereotyping all travel coaches just cared about winning. David and Columbiaguy both make some very valid points. But it is easy to say don't do travel when you have such a great summer program. All 16 of my players from last year are playing college baseball now. Some were helped by their high school coach and I helped some get there. But if a kid is serious about wanting to play college they have to have one of the coaches that will help get them there. JMO and really enjoy the topic.

[Imatiger]

A parent that alows ANY COACH, Travel,High School... etc to throw their son 150 pitches should be beat. Period

 

Agreed and then beat the coach with the other bloody arm!

[Imatiger]

First, I guess I'd want to know what 'elite' is. Don't they have TBCA showcase teams, etc that showcase the elite players in regional and national tournaments? If you're not on one of those, how elite is your travel team?

 

I think you can have the best of both worlds if you play your cards right. Pitching is the biggest problem. You get out of it what you put in it as a player and a coach. I think summer programs should be categorized as National, Regional, Statewide or Local. Whichever level your team can consistently compete, is how 'elite' your program is. The best 18U Little League team in Florida is going to beat most anything Tennessee can throw at them. It's all about perspective.

 

The TBCA showcase teams are only played one weekend and depending on who you talk with not always chosen with the total region in mind. The Sunbelt team is probably the best barometer of Tennessee players but they only play one tournament together and they usually do really well in Oklahoma with very little practice together.

 

Good comment on "consistently compete at". Beating a very good team once in a summer and beating very good teams on a weekly basis is a whole different ballgame. I think you would see that most of the better Tennessee teams would hold their own against most any team from any state. Not that they would beat them every game, but they would hold their own. Tennessee baseball is very good.

[Powerpitcher]

First, I guess I'd want to know what 'elite' is. Don't they have TBCA showcase teams, etc that showcase the elite players in regional and national tournaments? If you're not on one of those, how elite is your travel team?

 

I think you can have the best of both worlds if you play your cards right. Pitching is the biggest problem. You get out of it what you put in it as a player and a coach. I think summer programs should be categorized as National, Regional, Statewide or Local. Whichever level your team can consistently compete, is how 'elite' your program is. The best 18U Little League team in Florida is going to beat most anything Tennessee can throw at them. It's all about perspective.

 

 

Elite is like top 64 17U teams in the nation as rated per Prefectgame. Franklin Outlaws played some of the best talent in the nation all summer long, traveling to East Cobb WWBA, Auburn, Tourment of Champions in Cincinnati and Prefect Game BCS in Ft. Myers. They played only ranked teams all summer. The last win of the summer was against the Orlando Scorpions (ranked #5 with the #1 pitcher in the nation for the class of 2010 pitching) and they won 9-1. They placed 3rd in the Perfect Game BCS at Ft. Myers - so much for Tennesse teams not being able to compeat!

[columbiaguy]

Newstang, I can assure you that those players going to play in college have nothing to do with the Legion program in Columbia. Players have already committed to a college by the time they play Legion and that is the team I was talking about with the lack of discipline and some of the other comments. I do agree with some of your points though. Columbia does run a good program and I don't think those kids need to play travel. Columbia and Riverdale probably are the exception and not the rule. I guess I take for granted sometimes that all coaches want the best for their teams and work hard. I guess the answer is a case-by-case scenario. If you have a good high school program, with coaches that care, it is probably beneficial to stay together. If you are in a situation where the high school coach just wants to relax in the summer and isn't going to work at it, you might need to play somewhere else.

[newguy]

My team was $500 and we played anywhere from 40-55 games the past few years while playing in many states and college venues.

 

Then you must have been doing it just because you love it.

 

Most travel guys are doing it for a paycheck.........that is why it costs so much.......If they weren't making money, you wouldn't see as many teams.

 

Most parents/players are just feeding the animal. I mean really, if a kid throws 92.......does he really need to be on a Travel Team.......C'mon guys

 

It is a cyclical nightmare......Elite players on Elite travel teams don't really need to be there.

 

Average players see this, think they should play travel ball to make them an elite player, which it doesn't. MORE $$$$$

 

Then if the parents actually sat down and added up all the $$$$ they have spent on Travel Ball expenses from the time they were 8-9 years old until 18: Fees, uniforms, hotel bills, food, gas and travel??????

 

They could have paid for their son to go to Vanderbilt

[Imatiger]

My team was $500 and we played anywhere from 40-55 games the past few years while playing in many states and college venues.

 

Then you must have been doing it just because you love it.

 

Most travel guys are doing it for a paycheck.........that is why it costs so much.......If they weren't making money, you wouldn't see as many teams.

 

Most parents/players are just feeding the animal. I mean really, if a kid throws 92.......does he really need to be on a Travel Team.......C'mon guys

 

It is a cyclical nightmare......Elite players on Elite travel teams don't really need to be there.

 

Average players see this, think they should play travel ball to make them an elite player, which it doesn't. MORE $$$$$

 

Then if the parents actually sat down and added up all the $$$$ they have spent on Travel Ball expenses from the time they were 8-9 years old until 18: Fees, uniforms, hotel bills, food, gas and travel??????

 

They could have paid for their son to go to Vanderbilt

 

 

I definitely do it for the love of it. I can't remember a summer when I didn't have to pay out of pocket for something. But there isn't a thing in the world that I would take for the places we have been and players we have seen and the time I have gotten to spend with my son.

 

The comment about adding all of it up is priceless. My Dad used to tell me the same exact thing, even down to could have paid for Vanderbilt.

[dogonedog]

My team was $500 and we played anywhere from 40-55 games the past few years while playing in many states and college venues.

 

Then you must have been doing it just because you love it.

 

Most travel guys are doing it for a paycheck.........that is why it costs so much.......If they weren't making money, you wouldn't see as many teams.

 

Most parents/players are just feeding the animal. I mean really, if a kid throws 92.......does he really need to be on a Travel Team.......C'mon guys

 

It is a cyclical nightmare......Elite players on Elite travel teams don't really need to be there.

 

Average players see this, think they should play travel ball to make them an elite player, which it doesn't. MORE $$$$$

 

Then if the parents actually sat down and added up all the $$$$ they have spent on Travel Ball expenses from the time they were 8-9 years old until 18: Fees, uniforms, hotel bills, food, gas and travel??????

 

They could have paid for their son to go to Vanderbilt

 

 

I definitely do it for the love of it. I can't remember a summer when I didn't have to pay out of pocket for something. But there isn't a thing in the world that I would take for the places we have been and players we have seen and the time I have gotten to spend with my son.

 

The comment about adding all of it up is priceless. My Dad used to tell me the same exact thing, even down to could have paid for Vanderbilt.

 

Amen! Finally someone on here really gets it.

[ksgovols]

First, I guess I'd want to know what 'elite' is. Don't they have TBCA showcase teams, etc that showcase the elite players in regional and national tournaments? If you're not on one of those, how elite is your travel team?

 

I think you can have the best of both worlds if you play your cards right. Pitching is the biggest problem. You get out of it what you put in it as a player and a coach. I think summer programs should be categorized as National, Regional, Statewide or Local. Whichever level your team can consistently compete, is how 'elite' your program is. The best 18U Little League team in Florida is going to beat most anything Tennessee can throw at them. It's all about perspective.

 

 

Elite is like top 64 17U teams in the nation as rated per Prefectgame. Franklin Outlaws played some of the best talent in the nation all summer long, traveling to East Cobb WWBA, Auburn, Tourment of Champions in Cincinnati and Prefect Game BCS in Ft. Myers. They played only ranked teams all summer. The last win of the summer was against the Orlando Scorpions (ranked #5 with the #1 pitcher in the nation for the class of 2010 pitching) and they won 9-1. They placed 3rd in the Perfect Game BCS at Ft. Myers - so much for Tennesse teams not being able to compeat!

 

All I said was it was 'all about perspective'. Not many in middle Tennessee would consider 18U Little League as competitive. A buddy of mine umped in their World Series a few years ago. 8 of the starting 9 from the Florida team had DI schollies. The one that didn't was an upcoming junior. That's a rec league team that can compete. Ok, they probably play whoever, whenever and chartered in as a Little League team for the tournament. Something more Tennessee teams ought to consider it seems to me.

 

"Elite" is tossed around way too frequently when talking about travel baseball. Particularly in younger age groups. Elite is best of the best. Maybe the Outlaws and the Brentwood Bulldogs fall into that category. Columbia Post 19's American Legion program do some years. I would take Dyer County's 9 last year and play against anybody in middle or west Tennessee that I've seen. By and large, 'elite' travel teams are few and far between. Otherwise, they wouldn't be that elite would they?

 

What's left are summer teams that play maybe a statewide, but certainly a local schedule with a few longer trips to tournaments thrown in. What's left are 90% of the teams around. My point is, when you're talking about MOST of the teams in middle Tennessee, you're not talking about elite teams. Hence the adjective 'elite'. I would think that a good high school coach could get as much out of his summer program as a guy working a 9-5 and coaching during his free time, which is what the thread is about.

[Tennesseesportsfan]

No high school coach should be allowed to dictate where a kid plays during the summer. It should clearly be a personal decision of the kid and parents. A kid will see more scouts in 1 week of Perfect Game than he will in 4 years of high school ball. Why would a high school coach put a kid in a box and not allow him/her to see whats out there? Trust me, a kid will never forget playing on the big stage at East Cobb. The number of schools that can take a team and travel during the summer are very few. Bottom line, high school kids should have the choice without repercussions from the high school coach.

[66in74]

The problem is that you are coming from a biased opinion. You assume that elite travel ball is better than playing for your high school in the summer. Maybe in your case, with the high school your son attends, that is true. Here is my problem with travel ball. Most teams charge at least $1,000 to play and you might get 30 games. Also, those coaches have nothing invested in the players. If a pitcher goes out and throws 150 pitches and gets hurt, oh well, at least we won. Then the high school team is punished because that coach is just in it to win games. There is also less discipline on travel teams. I have seen kids roll in about 15 minutes before the start of the game, throw their stuff on, and go play. That is not the right way to do things and the kid learns bad habits. Also, there is nothing prohibiting a high schoool team from playing travel teams in the summer. I know Columbia played the Donelson Cardinals and went to the 18U Sandlott World Series and the 17U Sandlott World Series and their kids paid a lot less than ANY travel team would charge. Also, playing for these travel teams does not get you more exposure. That is a misconception. The college coaches are going to watch the good players regardless of where they are playing. Columbia has put a lot of players in college and have kept their high school team together for the past 10 years. Last point, if the better players stay with the high school team it does a few things to benefit everybody. the younger players can watch how the better guys do things and learn from it, and the colleges coaches that come watch the older players also get a chance to see other players on that team that they may not have otherwise seen. It does nothing but benefit the program to keep them all together. And if you were wondering, i played a year of travel ball in high school as well as playing with my high school team. I didn't want anyone to think I had never expeienced the alternative so why should I speak on it.

 

I heard Columbia mandates every player to raise or pay $800 for the regular season High School baseball. Why are you mentioning the $$ part.

[StealthBuster]

MANDATES! You are so out of line 66 in 74. Once again you can't wait to find a reason to HATE on Columbia Baseball.

2 games into football season and off you go. Tough to to say to a GOOD FRIEND but get off your high horse and stop casting stones at the school to the south.