How would you seed these four teams?

[onefortheteam]

I get that and agree with the placements guessed, but my point is some teams won't be able to, or afford to, put together a glamorous schedule even if they're good enough to play well against it. Those teams shouldn't be penalized.

 

I agree - but no system should be in place that uses overall record of any kind because of that fact.

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David still pushing for a TN BCS rating nice. I will again list a few reasons why this is flawed:

 

1) This is high school football.

2) If what objective critea can you use to determine who is the best/better team/s. Overall record is the only one. EVERYTHING else is subjective.

3) People can work the system, but they still have to win in their district. There is objective way to say one district is better than another other than if they all played.

4) The polls are subjective, is this what you want?

5) Every stat I saw you use involved the very stat you said should not carry any weight: Overall record.

6) Why is overall record not for a team in a district, but is on all teams in a district????

 

If they go to a goofy BCS formula, high school football loses. period. Unless of course you are the popular/sexy conferences with the populations to support the paprizzi that you will have to entertain to vote you into the playoffs.

[davidlimbaugh]

I get that and agree with the placements guessed, but my point is some teams won't be able to, or afford to, put together a glamorous schedule even if they're good enough to play well against it. Those teams shouldn't be penalized.

 

I agree - but no system should be in place that uses overall record of any kind because of that fact.

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David still pushing for a TN BCS rating nice. I will again list a few reasons why this is flawed:

 

 

Absolutely NOT - just the opposite - the plan I turned into Mr. Childress today goes back to the top four REGION teams qualifying on the REGION Records and then playing their corresponding Region's 1-4, 3-2, 2-3, 1-4 again.

 

I have NEVER pushed for any type of rating system at anytime, ever. I have been pretty consistent in my dislike for the Z system since it was introduced.

 

I am trying to illustrate the UNFAIRNESS of the current system. Can anyone name the four teams in question yet?

[my2cents]

Has anyone guessed who these four teams are yet??? And their actual seeds (be careful, that could be a trick question

 

Team A could be Smyrna but they are not in

[fmrqb02]

How would you seed these four teams?

 

Without naming the teams, how would you seed them with these numbers:

 

Team A

 

# playoff teams - 6

D2 and 5A Teams's Record (19-11-.633) 6A Team's Record (47-23-.671)

Winning PCT of opponents .660

Points for seeds (8 for 1, 7 for 2, etc...) 38

 

Team B

 

# playoff teams - 6

D2 and 5A Team's Record (16-4-.800) 6A Team's Record (47-33-.588)

Winning PCT of opponents .630

Points for seeds (8 for 1, 7 for 2, etc...) 37

 

Team C

 

# of playoff teams - 5

5A Team's Record (7-3-.700) 6A Team's Record (51-39-.570)

Winning PCT of opponents .580

Record against teams over .500 (3-2)

Points for seeds (8 for 1, 7 for 2, etc...) 26

 

Team D

 

# of playoff teams - 3

5A Team's Record (7-23-.233) 6A Team's Record (40-30-.571)

Winning PCT of opponents .470

Points for seeds (8 for 1, 7 for 2, etc...) 15

 

In what order would you seed these teams without knowing their names or won-loss records?[/qu

 

A= Smyrna

B= Oakland

C= Riverdale

D= Blackman

I understand the point your trying to make, but you got to remember Blackman is District Champion. So no matter who they played out of district they would still have finished no worse than in a tie for first...

But for the sake of discussion, I would seed these 4 like so...

 

B

A

C

D

[davidlimbaugh]

Anyone getting close to who A B C and D are????

 

Great example of how this isn't a great system?

 

If you can name the four teams by letter I will buy you a plus membership here on Coach T

 

If you are already a plus member I will give ya the $40.00 at the TSSAA Board of Control meeting November 19.

[highball76]

DL,

this may be too simple-minded, but what would be the problem/s with simply using a rating system like Coach T's S+S power rankings & taking teams from the top down, e.g. in 5A the top 32 (or whatever # you (TSSAA) want) teams are in, regardless of whether they are the class champs in a district with only 2 5A teams. That way no teams with less than 3 or 4 wins would be in the playoffs.

 

Or we could just tweak the current system to say that any team that is currently playoff eligible but wins less than 4 games is is not an automatic qualifier but is placed in the Wild Card Pool, regardless if they are the class champs of their district or not. Then use whatever wildcard rating system you want to fill out the no. of games TSSAA needs to see.

 

But to me there is no way a 1-9 team should be in the playoffs over a 4 or 5 win team. That is simply not fair to the other kids.

 

What do you think?

 

HB76

[fmrqb02]

A= Smyrna

B= Oakland

C= Riverdale

D= Blackman

[davidlimbaugh]

DL,

this may be too simple-minded, but what would be the problem/s with simply using a rating system like Coach T's S+S power rankings & taking teams from the top down, e.g. in 5A the top 32 (or whatever # you (TSSAA) want) teams are in, regardless of whether they are the class champs in a district with only 2 5A teams. That way no teams with less than 3 or 4 wins would be in the playoffs.

 

Or we could just tweak the current system to say that any team that is currently playoff eligible but wins less than 4 games is is not an automatic qualifier but is placed in the Wild Card Pool, regardless if they are the class champs of their district or not. Then use whatever wildcard rating system you want to fill out the no. of games TSSAA needs to see.

 

But to me there is no way a 1-9 team should be in the playoffs over a 4 or 5 win team. That is simply not fair to the other kids.

 

What do you think?

 

HB76

 

Several states have different ways of doing what you describe. From computer formulas to points systems. My bias comes from being raised in Alabama, where we take our football pretty seriously. In Alabama, your area games are the only games that matter. Your out of area games are just to make money.

 

If they are bent on keeping the current process, perhaps a reward system for playing teams in your class and for playing teams with winning records. How about we start a new thread on what kind of computer system would be fair with the current district alignments?

 

A guess on the question of who is who? A hint - I am an alumnus of one and my license play contains the letters for another one

[davidlimbaugh]

A= Smyrna

B= Oakland

C= Riverdale

D= Blackman

 

We have a winner! Are you already a plus member?

[fmrqb02]

Nope

[davidlimbaugh]

Nope

 

Getting with Coach T to hook you up - and thanks for entering! For everyone, we have a nice parting gift - LOL!!!!

[silverpie]

Actually, Alabama's gone to regions now--which is basically pooling two old-school areas and taking four from each. And they do use overall record, but only as a very deep tiebreaker.

 

Anyway, I've been looking over the points structures used in some other states. West Virginia has a pretty simple one with a huge emphasis on the size of the opponent--beating Farragut would get you more credit than beating Alcoa, and Antioch more than South Pittsburg.

 

Perhaps the "classic" point system is Ohio's, the Harbin system, which is a combination of your record and the records of the teams you beat. A simpler variant on the same concept is the Heal system, used in Maine. Although phrased differently, the NCAA's RPI is an example of such a system too.

But these inspire a further thought: why not define the strength of schedule by the ratings themselves? (Yes, it's circular, but it actually works--feed in a guess, take the output, feed that back in, and repeat until the numbers stop moving.)

 

I've found two fairly high-quality variants on that concept: recursive Heal points and KRACH (for the latter, one would use the old "fictitious team" variant to deal with an issue involving unbeaten or winless teams). The "top ten" under RHEAL are Ensworth, Oakland, Blackman, Brentwood, Riverdale, Brentwood Academy, MBA, Whites Creek, Beech, Mount Juliet, and Father Ryan; the highest East Tennessee team is Ooltewah at #23 and the top Weststate team (not counting Henry County) is MUS at #34. I think this system suffers from a Vanderbilt effect (a win can hurt your rating).

The KRACH system gives a ranking of Alcoa, Ensworth, MUS, Red Bank, Blackman, Maryville, CAK, Oakland, Milan, and Polk County, which seems more sensible (MUS might even be higher if their two Mississippi wins were taken into account).