D2 Brackets Question?

[BoBKatz86]

why did calloway go 112

[2blLeg]

why did calloway go 112

 

maybe he felt it was his best option. Having to face Watson can't be anyone's thought when wanting to win a state title.

[PUMMELKING]

Then seems to me like make this a single day tourny unti lthey are able to fill at least half the wgt. classes.

Would open it up to make D1 a double elimination.

 

You don't need to slight the DII wrestlers in order to make DI a double elimination tournament. The number one reason DII shouldn't be made a single day tournament is that with the current level of participation it is possible to run into the 5 match rule... I think everyone would agree that wouldn't be a good thing for any wrestler at their state championships. In general I would take the entire suggestion as a continual dig at the DII tournament. I don't want to get into that as it is relevant but it also isn't warranted.

 

The DI tournament could have been made double elimination at UTC, several viable options were submitted.

 

I have heard from knowledgeable sources that the TSSAA has discussed moving DI to double elimination with the new venue. However, they didn't want to add any new wrinkles to go along with the new venue this year. I would expect it gets a big push and occurs next year. Of course I will issue my standard disclaimer in saying don't say I said it would happen if it doesn't lol.

 

G,

Not being to partial, but seems that a guy that only has ten in the wgt class has too easy of being called state champ. Seems if TSSAA wants to really improve D2, let teams with extra wrestlers enter the tourny maybe alternating wgt. classes that they can enter to fill the 16 man tourny.

Say 103 were to only have 10 wrestlers, all schools that have at least 2 put in pool to pull out to fill the wgt classes. Once a school has been picked to have two members, they could not be eligible for the next wgt. class that does not have a full bracket. Just a thought.

[ghouse]

why did calloway go 112

 

Well my guess is there were 4 factors (likely in order of importance, remember my speculation):

1) He could make the weight

2) He has had some success against most of the ranked guys at 112

3) He was 0-3 against the #2 and #3 ranked wrestler at 119 and that doesn't even include Watson

4) He had had some close matches with the lower ranked wrestlers at 119

[ghouse]

Then seems to me like make this a single day tourny unti lthey are able to fill at least half the wgt. classes.

Would open it up to make D1 a double elimination.

 

You don't need to slight the DII wrestlers in order to make DI a double elimination tournament. The number one reason DII shouldn't be made a single day tournament is that with the current level of participation it is possible to run into the 5 match rule... I think everyone would agree that wouldn't be a good thing for any wrestler at their state championships. In general I would take the entire suggestion as a continual dig at the DII tournament. I don't want to get into that as it is relevant but it also isn't warranted.

 

The DI tournament could have been made double elimination at UTC, several viable options were submitted.

 

I have heard from knowledgeable sources that the TSSAA has discussed moving DI to double elimination with the new venue. However, they didn't want to add any new wrinkles to go along with the new venue this year. I would expect it gets a big push and occurs next year. Of course I will issue my standard disclaimer in saying don't say I said it would happen if it doesn't lol.

 

G,

Not being to partial, but seems that a guy that only has ten in the wgt class has too easy of being called state champ. Seems if TSSAA wants to really improve D2, let teams will extra wrestlers enter the tourny maybe alternating wgt. classes that they can enter to fill the 16 man tourny.

Say 103 were to only have 10 wrestlers, all schools that have at least 2 put in pool to pull out to fill the wgt classes. Once a school has been picked to have two members, they could not be eligible for the next wgt. class that does not have a full bracket. Just a thought.

 

Pummel,

 

We are all a little partial. There is no need to get goofy on the entries for DII though. The number of teams with wrestling in DII will grow with time and help fill out the bracket. I wouldn't be surprised to see some of the smaller privates eventually get pushed out of DI in other sports and to see groups like Notre Dame and Knox Catholic come back at some point. I wouldn't mind seeing an 8 man tourney as it is now but it is what it is and there isn't anything wrong with it.

 

I didn't really want to get into it but I guess I am going to. If you think that the DII champion has too easy a time winning a state title because there is typically one less round than DI then I think you are crazy. The first round in DII is traditionally very lopsided with the top guys not sniffing a challenge... of course the same is true for the first 2 rounds in DI.

 

When you get to the quarter finals I would say that typically in DI there are maybe, maybe 3 matches (typically two) between top level wrestlers (your non-seeding and unevenness in the difficulty of regions hurts you a little here). There might be two such matches in DII.

 

However, once you hit the semi-finals and consolation semi-finals you are in a dog fight no matter which division you are in. If there is a clear cut number one in either division they typically handle their semi-final and only really get tested in the finals (if at all).

 

So all of that being said, I think guys that are crowned state champion in DII have just as tough a road as the eventual champions in DI... 1-2 matches where they are tested and one where they just can't fall asleep.

 

Overall TN does not have the depth of a PA, Iowa, ILL, CA, NJ, etc. so you aren't going to be absolutely pushed every round. However, most folks would tell you that is the case in any of the smaller divisions in those states (for the ones with multiple divisions) as well. Heck it could be a lot worse, we could be as spread out as AL, GA, AZ, etc.

[PUMMELKING]

Pummel,

 

We are all a little partial. There is no need to get goofy on the entries for DII though. The number of teams with wrestling in DII will grow with time and help fill out the bracket. I wouldn't be surprised to see some of the smaller privates eventually get pushed out of DI in other sports and to see groups like Notre Dame and Knox Catholic come back at some point. I wouldn't mind seeing an 8 man tourney as it is now but it is what it is and there isn't anything wrong with it.

 

I didn't really want to get into it but I guess I am going to. If you think that the DII champion has too easy a time winning a state title because there is typically one less round than DI then I think you are crazy. The first round in DII is traditionally very lopsided with the top guys not sniffing a challenge... of course the same is true for the first 2 rounds in DI.

 

When you get to the quarter finals I would say that typically in DI there are maybe, maybe 3 matches (typically two) between top level wrestlers (your non-seeding and unevenness in the difficulty of regions hurts you a little here). There might be two such matches in DII.

 

However, once you hit the semi-finals and consolation semi-finals you are in a dog fight no matter which division you are in. If there is a clear cut number one in either division they typically handle their semi-final and only really get tested in the finals (if at all).

 

So all of that being said, I think guys that are crowned state champion in DII have just as tough a road as the eventual champions in DI... 1-2 matches where they are tested and one where they just can't fall asleep.

 

Overall TN does not have the depth of a PA, Iowa, ILL, CA, NJ, etc. so you aren't going to be absolutely pushed every round. However, most folks would tell you that is the case in any of the smaller divisions in those states (for the ones with multiple divisions) as well. Heck it could be a lot worse, we could be as spread out as AL, GA, AZ, etc.

 

G,

Now 8 man is understandable at the present. I think that having regionals makes a tougher path than going without one. An extra weekend of wrestling and nothing ever taken for granted. So have D2 have sum sort of regional to take it to a 8 man I agree.

Also the best matches are the semi's. Not as tight as in the Finals. So I'll give credit, D2 does have sum good matchups. But conso are different I feel. Unless both go to true second, becasue one side may be much easier path.

Now nothing wrong with having multi state champions. GA does a good job with there state tourny with all Classes, which several of the A wrestlers have been AA in Fargo, so dont consider smaller schools or many classifications a down fall. Why not wrestling here, heck all the other sports have several different champions per classification. Always possibilit of bringing them all together after Traditional State, hen say maybe top four from A, AA, AAA and D2 then see who is the best in STATE.

[ynotme]

D2 needs to host a TN D2 invitational tourney the weekend of the D1 regionals and call the winner of that the TN D2 state champion - who cares if the TSSAA sactions it or not. This would free them up to attend the national prep tourney in LeHigh, PA next weekend - a tourney with national respect which neither the TN D1 or D2 or any of the A's in GA currently have. The TSSAA has become a joke with regards to wrestling. There has never been a legit reason since the tourneys moved to the round house at UTC for not having double elimination in D1 - we all know it. Now they stick the tourney in a venue that IS NOT condusive to hosting the individual tourney for one reason only.....it was free and now they get to nab you $5 a day for parking also. If you don't want it at UTC, then find a comparable replacement venue.

 

Good luck to all the young competitors this weekend, especially those who have battled through injury and sickness to chase a medal. Hope all the placers are as joy filled as the American lady downhill skier was last night in the Olympics.

[cbg]

combine d1 and dII for the individual and make it double elimination!!!!!

That sounds great!!!!!!! Let the "BIG DOGS" eat!!!!! That sounds great even if you do like Indiana and don't keep a team score. The problem is that someones "Lil Johnny" want win a state title and everyones feelings will get hurt!

[In Hoc Signo Vinces]

Ok Pummelking, your right......the potential D-II state champs this year might as well not even show up to Frank town this weekend, because their championship simply won't matter. But anyone that knows anyhting about TN wrestling know that the top 3 or 4 in each division are about the same caliber.

 

Great Thread Pummelking

[PUMMELKING]

Ok Pummelking, your right......the potential D-II state champs this year might as well not even show up to Frank town this weekend, because their championship simply won't matter. But anyone that knows anyhting about TN wrestling know that the top 3 or 4 in each division are about the same caliber.

 

Great Thread Pummelking

I never said it did not matter, just that D2 state champion has a much easier road to follow without regionals and not a full wgt. class except for two and only being 16 man bracket.

State Champ is State Champ, I'd rather see A, AA, AAA so on, as compaired to D1 D2.

[Dragon Fly]

Ok Pummelking, your right......the potential D-II state champs this year might as well not even show up to Frank town this weekend, because their championship simply won't matter. But anyone that knows anyhting about TN wrestling know that the top 3 or 4 in each division are about the same caliber.

 

Great Thread Pummelking

I never said it did not matter, just that D2 state champion has a much easier road to follow without regionals and not a full wgt. class except for two and only being 16 man bracket.

State Champ is State Champ, I'd rather see A, AA, AAA so on, as compaired to D1 D2.

 

Pummelking, you are right about DII being easier to win. I made a request to my sons coach to move into DII because it is easier to win a state than DI. I can't figure out why more schools don't do this.

[2blLeg]

I never said it did not matter, just that D2 state champion has a much easier road to follow without regionals and not a full wgt. class except for two and only being 16 man bracket.

State Champ is State Champ, I'd rather see A, AA, AAA so on, as compaired to D1 D2.

 

what's the difference between D1 v D2, and A, AA, AAA when it comes to individuals. A wrestler is a wrestler. In other states, I have seen kids in AA, be better wrestler than kids in AAA. The seperation is for the team scores, not the individuals.