state meeting

[BuckLateral]

Report on coaches meeting filed by Ward Gossett in this morning's Chatt Times Free Press------finally possible good news on the double elimination issue:

 

FRANKLIN, Tenn. -- A separate division for small schools, one similar to that of the A/AA state duals, was among proposals presented Saturday morning at the annual meeting of the Tennessee Wrestling Coaches Association.

 

"I really don't think it has much of a chance. The TSSAA addressed that when they established the A/AA duals," TWCA president Steve Henry said.

 

There is a possibility because of the enhanced size of the current facility, the Williamson County Agricultural Expo, where 10 mats were used this weekend.

 

Some of the A/AA coaches see no reason to change.

 

"I personally wish we (Division I and Division II) were still in one tournament," Red Bank coach Ben Reichel said. "We're one state. We should have one state champion (in each weight class). If they want to continue having separate (team) championships, then keep the scores separately.

 

Notre Dame coach John Mullin, whose team won 2006-08 A/AA state duals titles, feels the change is unnecessary.

 

"I think it would diminish from the current state tournament," he said.

 

The TWCA recognizes an A/AA team champion from the traditional tournament, paying for a championship plaque. Greenback has taken that title the past two seasons.

 

An expected proposal which should carry more weight, especially with the additional room, is changing the tournaments to double elimination.

 

"I think we'll have that next year," Henry said.

 

Coaches also are going to take a look at realigning the 14 weight classes. There are three proposals floating around, including one that would make 110 pounds the lightest weight as opposed to the current 103-pound classification. Two of the proposals emphasize additional classes in the upper weights.

 

Division II coaches spent much of their morning meeting considering changes to seeding criteria for their tournament.

.........................................................................................................................................

[rcpatriot]

how many other state tournament are set up like ours? The states (especially southern states) that have different formats than we do, is the sport growing in those states?

 

Changing the current format to a double elimination would be the first step in moving in the right direction. My reference above is to why not at least seperate small schools from large schools for individual tournaments? Im as "old school" as most but we have got to get out of thinking that "our way" is better when based on the growth in other states, we obviously are doing something wrong.

 

Has anyone asked the kids what they think? You might be surprised at the answer you get.

[PUMMELKING]

I know the old schools and the big money schools would prefer that the state go to one tournament. But think about those schools who can barely field a lineup! Or better yet those considering starting a program, would it not be more beneficial for them to have a slight bit of hope to be at least able to compete!!!!

Then there are the schools or areas that have no feeder Middle Schools or Clubs or even funds to have a practice facility. Practice when and where they can, when state is over wrestling is over until the next November. I think adding small school state will allow the sport to grow. Those small schools also have the opportunity to wrestle up if they so choose.

Alot of people do not understand that a team or individual getting a state title or placing does wonders for the program, not to mention the school and prob the community. Having a trophy or pic for all to see at a school is MAJOR PR. Best way to get kids out and school or community to buy into a program and possibly add the needed feeder or club program. If nothing else it might add the $$$$ for some schools to have an asst. coach or new uniforms or mats. Now dont forget to think about the same small schools trying to survive in the big pond with no halp and trying to make their programs grow and also adding the girls to the situation takes much more time.

So YES lets have small school division.

[russianbear]

Whine, whine, whine.

 

Here's a news flash. Starting a program is hard! It takes work. Why don't we just give out 10 state championship trophys? Now we have good PR for 10 schools!!!!

 

People, please don't shoot from the hip. Let's look at the FACTS, not your assumptions.

 

True, participation in GA has gone up more than TN. True, they have multiple state champs. But why would any logically person automatically ASSUME that is why participation has increased?!

 

Georgia's population has increased 26% over the last 15 years! TN population 16%. The same is true of Florida (24% population growth).

 

Do you know when TN had the greatest number of participants? 1994.

 

What this boils down to is this. "Let's give all the kids a smiley face so they can feel good about themselves"

 

Do you know how many state champions there were then? ONE!

[hungryman]

Yes a small school indv. is a great idea. I saw two great wrestlers each from a different school who did there best but couldn't hang with the powerhouses. One was from White station the other from hunters lane. I believe if those kids had the advantages as the top 10 placing teams they might have done better. By only having one wrestler who is at that caliber at your school there is a distinct disadvantage when facing the "big schools". I know hunter's lane didn't even have a single home dual and had a hard time getting matches becouse they only had 4-5 wrestlers on the team with a brand new coach. I think back to last year when Friendship Christian (a school of only maybe 300 students K-12) had that heavyweight, and his coach (maybe a buck 50) was the only one he got to practice with, who knows what would have happened if he had someone his own size to practice with everyday.

[russianbear]

First off, Hunter's Lane is in 6A for football. That's the large school division. There goes that theory.

 

However, I have great respect for the wrestler you're speaking of. He paid the price in the off season and did what was necessary to succeed. Because of that he was OT away from the finals and has medaled twice now.

 

I know what it's like starting a program amoungst the big boys. I did it with a school that had an enrollment of less than 200. Half were girls. That left 100 boys. 20-30 played bball, 20-30 were academic kids only.

 

IT WAS HARD. But we made it happen. Our first dual we started 10 8h graders. We lost 84-0. We competed with SD, Ooltewah, and the rest of region 4. In 2 years we had our first state qualifier.

 

I'm no longer there, but last year they finished 6th in the region of 18 teams and had 2 state qualifiers. This year they had a 145lber in the quarters that lost 9-7.

 

What's the point? The kids a better from it. They've learned that they're not "too small" to compete with the big boys. Life is hard. But regardless, you gotta overcome.

[russianbear]

Correction* They had THREE state qualifiers

[rcpatriot]

Valid points made by many, but, my question still remains that if we are doing it the "correct" way, why aren't the other states following our lead? All of us old timers can be bull headed and say "one" champion is the best way and continue to watch our state fall behind or we can continue to keep our beliefs, but be willing to do what would be best for the sport in our state.

 

Again, ask the kids what they think! Afterall, they are the reason we are doing this aren't they?

[PUMMELKING]

Whine, whine, whine.

 

Here's a news flash. Starting a program is hard! It takes work. Why don't we just give out 10 state championship trophys? Now we have good PR for 10 schools!!!!

 

People, please don't shoot from the hip. Let's look at the FACTS, not your assumptions.

 

True, participation in GA has gone up more than TN. True, they have multiple state champs. But why would any logically person automatically ASSUME that is why participation has increased?!

 

Georgia's population has increased 26% over the last 15 years! TN population 16%. The same is true of Florida (24% population growth).

 

Do you know when TN had the greatest number of participants? 1994.

 

What this boils down to is this. "Let's give all the kids a smiley face so they can feel good about themselves"

 

Do you know how many state champions there were then? ONE!

 

So we should only have one title? Well lets do away with Fargo as well because there are other National Tournaments, no need to have more than one.

Heck lets combine the schools for all sports in TN and have one champion for each sport. Seriously its the old coaches or old schools that want it back to one. Time to make changes and have small schools. If the small school wants to wrestle up, they have that opportunity. The tinly fish need to feed off teh crumbs before the are trophy caliber.

[reftn]

There was a kid from a small school (Nash Christian) a few years ago. By the end of the year, it was only him and his coach I think, and his coach was a teacher who could be at tournaments for him. He took upon himself to get to wrestling rooms that would allow him to work out with them. He drove himself around Nashville to find work out partners. He kept entering tournaments with his teacher/sponsor. He kept getting into the finals.

 

This Duncan kid finished 2nd in the combined state tournament. Nashville Christian had an enrollment of maybe 500 kids K-12. 150 in high school maybe.

 

Jody Duncan is a pretty incredible story that doesnt get told, but his story is the story of our sport.

 

If those of us on this board had Duncan's heart for this sport, we'd quit grippin' about D1/D2, small school/large school,

 

and just wrestle.

[nununu]

There was a kid from a small school (Nash Christian) a few years ago. By the end of the year, it was only him and his coach I think, and his coach was a teacher who could be at tournaments for him. He took upon himself to get to wrestling rooms that would allow him to work out with them. He drove himself around Nashville to find work out partners. He kept entering tournaments with his teacher/sponsor. He kept getting into the finals.

 

This Duncan kid finished 2nd in the combined state tournament. Nashville Christian had an enrollment of maybe 500 kids K-12. 150 in high school maybe.

 

Jody Duncan is a pretty incredible story that doesnt get told, but his story is the story of our sport.

 

If those of us on this board had Duncan's heart for this sport, we'd quit grippin' about D1/D2, small school/large school,

 

and just wrestle.

And to add to that, Mr. Duncan is now trying to resurrect the program at Hillwood High School. Josue Brown is a little different because HL is a large school. The problem there is the administration told the last coach he couldn't coach there anymore, and just put someone there so that they would have a team. The last coach had a full team and place 2nd in the Region 7 duals last season. Josue did what Jodie did and found his way around and practiced wherever. He is one of those "by any means necessary" stories. His downfall was that there was no one to tell him about the OT rules and how they went. Once again, administration and wrestling, a non-revenue sport, who cares.

[BayouBear]

Whine, whine, whine.

 

Here's a news flash. Starting a program is hard! It takes work. Why don't we just give out 10 state championship trophys? Now we have good PR for 10 schools!!!!

 

People, please don't shoot from the hip. Let's look at the FACTS, not your assumptions.

 

True, participation in GA has gone up more than TN. True, they have multiple state champs. But why would any logically person automatically ASSUME that is why participation has increased?!

 

Georgia's population has increased 26% over the last 15 years! TN population 16%. The same is true of Florida (24% population growth).

 

Do you know when TN had the greatest number of participants? 1994.

 

What this boils down to is this. "Let's give all the kids a smiley face so they can feel good about themselves"

 

Do you know how many state champions there were then? ONE!

 

 

 

I'm too tired to dig up the numbers but I have them. Tennessee wrestling is growing slower than the adjoining states with multiple divisions even when those statistics are adusted for population growth/new school construction.

 

There's too many people in this state who feel the most important issue is finding out who has the biggest and baddest dog. They care more about how it used to be, egos and pointing out the problems rather than finding a path which leads to growth and prosperity.

 

Everyone should probably start adjusting to the thought of a Small School Division. It's going to happen. It may be a few years but it's gonna happen. There is too many folks in favor of it and I am one of them.