DII - 125 Match

[reftn]

The match was rediculous as far as refereeing was concerned and yes Nashville refs help the Nashville wrestlers u can watch any match and be able to see that if there is a Nashville wrestler and a Nashville ref that the calls are easy to spot out. In this match alone I was talking to a Baylor dad and he and a couple other Baylor parents couldn't believe how many stall calls there were. There were more stall calls in this match then the entire dll finals put together. Also the state seeding was rediculous as far as where none ranked wrestlers were placed another Nashville thing. CBHS clearly would have placed 1st or 2nd atleast if they didn't have 7 byes in the first round and father Ryan had a total of 3 byes the first round. We need to have different refs from another state come and do the matches because there is way to much Nashville favoring going on and the sad part is that anybody watching the match can see the refs favor Nash wrestlers. Also why do we have 2 refs for each match because I watched ever match on the dll side and not one time in the entire tournament did the 2nd ref help the head ref overturn a call that he saw. So y have 2 refs when the second walks around and doesn't overturn calls that really should have been overturned. It's rediculous to watch all these refs some don't know what the heck there doing and just because they pass a test doesn't mean anything when the refs are there to collect and nice big pay check for the weekend and that's all.

 

Let me be sure I got this correct.

 

In a match between Baylor (that you mentioned) and I will assume Christian Bros HS (correct me if I am wrong) these bad ol Nashville refs were pulling for the Nashville kid? Yeah?

 

I am getting out my map, be right back.

[reftn]

The match was rediculous as far as refereeing was concerned and yes Nashville refs help the Nashville wrestlers u can watch any match and be able to see that if there is a Nashville wrestler and a Nashville ref that the calls are easy to spot out. In this match alone I was talking to a Baylor dad and he and a couple other Baylor parents couldn't believe how many stall calls there were. There were more stall calls in this match then the entire dll finals put together. Also the state seeding was rediculous as far as where none ranked wrestlers were placed another Nashville thing. CBHS clearly would have placed 1st or 2nd atleast if they didn't have 7 byes in the first round and father Ryan had a total of 3 byes the first round. We need to have different refs from another state come and do the matches because there is way to much Nashville favoring going on and the sad part is that anybody watching the match can see the refs favor Nash wrestlers. Also why do we have 2 refs for each match because I watched ever match on the dll side and not one time in the entire tournament did the 2nd ref help the head ref overturn a call that he saw. So y have 2 refs when the second walks around and doesn't overturn calls that really should have been overturned. It's rediculous to watch all these refs some don't know what the heck there doing and just because they pass a test doesn't mean anything when the refs are there to collect and nice big pay check for the weekend and that's all.

 

 

 

Let me be sure I got this correct.

 

In a match between Baylor (that you mentioned) and I will assume Christian Bros HS (correct me if I am wrong) these bad ol Nashville refs were pulling for the Nashville kid? Yeah?

 

I am getting out my map, be right back.

 

 

Got my map.

 

Thats one heck of a commute for either kid.

 

Are we talking about the same match?

[2blLeg]

Something else occurs to me. If the Nash refs were calling stalling against your region but not their own, doesnt that just make sense?

 

The Nashville area wrestlers have had the benefit of this excellent officiating all year long. Therefore, they have learned not to stall, they know these officials are going to stick them for it. We hate when during the season our wrestlers go to out of town tournaments in west TN because they come back home lazy, and we got to break them in all over again.

 

It would seem to me if you would work on that end of it, not stalling during the match, there would be no problem.

 

 

let me help you out a bit, seeing as how you are missing some MAJOR information here.

 

First, I believe very few teams from the middle or east part of the state have come to the west side this year, so I'm not sure you can say anything about how they are when they return home. I'm not sure, but I believe it's been over 4 years since Fr Ryan has come this way. BA comes every year, MBA comes at least once, last year was twice. But that's it.

 

Next, if you look at CBHS's schedule, they wrestled 11 tournaments this season (this includes duals, individuals, and the state), and of those only 2 were in west TN. SO I would have to qualify them as one the more traveled teams in the state. Seeing as how they probably put in over 5,000 miles of traveling this year to find competition. This includes the Toshiba Classic, which they placed 8th out of 32 teams. And in all that traveling, there have been so very few stalling calls. So to say that west TN is a stalling style of wrestling is stupid, or that they need to learn how to wrestle to the end. In KC, I beleive there were 3 warnings issued the entire team. And of that, not 1 penalty point. So if you are going to tell me that TN refs are better than what you would see at a national caliber tournament, again you are so wrong. I've looked at some of the other schools in the state, and I would say that on average, they travel outside the state once, maybe twice. So, again, I would think that CBHS has seen more officiating from all areas of the country than most TN teams.

 

But, you keep looking at this through your rose-colored glasses and see it the way you want. But sitting in an arrogant state, and never evaluating oneself will never allow you nor anyone else to grow. Just because some one can quote a few rules out of a rule book does not make them a good official. And since I do not know your true identity, I cannot tell you whether I feel you are a good official or not. But I can tell you, that through your posts, you come off as arrogant and a know-it-all. I just hope it's not that way when you are on the mat, because the kids depend on you to do a fair job, and be consistent.

[ynotme]

reftn - you are losing your credibility by continuing to argue against 2bleg concerning the pathetic performance of Mr. Bower in this match. Don't know that I've witnessed the patterned bias, but the facts concerning Mr. Bower are impossible to argue away. This is from B.B. Branton's article showing all the stalling warning and penalties in the 14 weights in the D2 finals;

 

112: warning stalling against Ward

 

125: warning on Baker (1); warning Baker (2); warning Manley (1); warning stalling Baker (3), warning Manley (2);

135: warning Hooker (1);

 

152: stalling on Downs,;

 

160: Todd warning (1);

 

189: stalling Mix (1)

 

215 stalling Fisher (2),

 

285: warning stalling on both wrestlers

 

Facts are facts - 5 stalling penalty points awarded in the 14 matches, 3 of which were awarded in the 125 lb match between 2 wrestlers who have proven themselves to be goers throughout their careers.

[memphiswrestling171]

when talking bout the baylor cbhs match i was refering to the horrible call by the ref. i am glad somebody posted all the stalling calls through all of dll

[smwwrest]

Reftn,

 

How do you explain all the stalling calls in a very action packed match? Its clear from the numbers there was a huge inconsistency between this ref and the others calling D2 finals matches. Again, it was disturbing and really detracted from what could have been the best match of the day (though Ward vs. Mosely was great too). I would quit defending a poor job, even if it was your poor job.

 

You can keep the cheese.

[reftn]

reftn - you are losing your credibility by continuing to argue against 2bleg concerning the pathetic performance of Mr. Bower in this match. Don't know that I've witnessed the patterned bias, but the facts concerning Mr. Bower are impossible to argue away. This is from B.B. Branton's article showing all the stalling warning and penalties in the 14 weights in the D2 finals;

 

112: warning stalling against Ward Thats all?

 

125: warning on Baker (1); warning Baker (2); warning Manley (1); warning stalling Baker (3), warning Manley (2); (plus 3 starting cautions and a misconduct warning against the Baylor coach for questioning the one foot takedown)

 

Miss conduct is misconduct. Thats automatic. Starting cautions, those are automatic. Those items are rule book.

The stalling warnings and points, I got to believe with that many someone either on the mat or in the chair would get a clue the ref is going to call stalling, regardless of what I might think of it.

 

135: warning Hooker (1); Thats all?

 

152: stalling on Downs,; Thats all?

 

160: Todd warning (1); Thats all?

 

189: stalling Mix (1) Thats all?

 

215 stalling Fisher (2),

 

285: warning stalling on both wrestlers Just one each? On heavyweights?! Pretty good wrestling by the big boys then!

 

Facts are facts - 5 stalling penalty points awarded in the 14 matches, 3 of which were awarded in the 125 lb match between 2 wrestlers who have proven themselves to be goers throughout their careers. My impression was this match was one of the most action packed of the finals (excluding the constant interruptions by Mr. Bower). This same match happened 2 weeks earlier at the duals with neither wrestler called for stalling. At least 2 blown calls on the edge of the mat and at least 2 premature stalemate calls that circumvented takedowns from happening. Mr. Bowers either stinks in general at officiating or simply choked when he got on the big stage. There are some officials from every region who simply aren't very good but that's true of everything in life involving the human element. Absolutely some mid-TN officials over-officiate consistently lead by the amazing Mr. Able who can create an infraction out of thin air. Maybe Mr. Bowers has a competition going with Mr. Able to see who can call the most? Nashville needs to rein these guys in to a level consistent with the rest of TN and the nation. The tribe saw nothing of this caliber in Minnesota, Georgia, Tennessee, and Alabama.

 

In summary, its all subjective in stalling. The only way to possibly be consistent with the call is to NOT CALL IT AT ALL, but if that were to occur, you'd (universally) gripe.

If nothing else, its sounds a lot more like Bowler was consistent in his calling it viewing the summary of the posted match. That meaning he called it in the 3rd period as he did in the 1st period.

 

Two take downs that would have occurred?

Premature stalemate calls, no, we dont cover premature stalemate in our mechanics meetings.

 

I await the posting of said match on you tube or this forum.

[Sommers]

This match was perhaps the most action packed of all matches in the tournament. ALex Ward's and Mosley's was up there but when you see it, I believe you will agree that the official got in the way of this one and possibly another OT.

[PUMMELKING]

Something else occurs to me. If the Nash refs were calling stalling against your region but not their own, doesnt that just make sense?

 

The Nashville area wrestlers have had the benefit of this excellent officiating all year long. Therefore, they have learned not to stall, they know these officials are going to stick them for it. We hate when during the season our wrestlers go to out of town tournaments in west TN because they come back home lazy, and we got to break them in all over again.

 

It would seem to me if you would work on that end of it, not stalling during the match, there would be no problem.

 

 

let me help you out a bit, seeing as how you are missing some MAJOR information here.

 

First, I believe very few teams from the middle or east part of the state have come to the west side this year, so I'm not sure you can say anything about how they are when they return home. I'm not sure, but I believe it's been over 4 years since Fr Ryan has come this way. BA comes every year, MBA comes at least once, last year was twice. But that's it.

 

Next, if you look at CBHS's schedule, they wrestled 11 tournaments this season (this includes duals, individuals, and the state), and of those only 2 were in west TN. SO I would have to qualify them as one the more traveled teams in the state. Seeing as how they probably put in over 5,000 miles of traveling this year to find competition. This includes the Toshiba Classic, which they placed 8th out of 32 teams. And in all that traveling, there have been so very few stalling calls. So to say that west TN is a stalling style of wrestling is stupid, or that they need to learn how to wrestle to the end. In KC, I beleive there were 3 warnings issued the entire team. And of that, not 1 penalty point. So if you are going to tell me that TN refs are better than what you would see at a national caliber tournament, again you are so wrong. I've looked at some of the other schools in the state, and I would say that on average, they travel outside the state once, maybe twice. So, again, I would think that CBHS has seen more officiating from all areas of the country than most TN teams.

 

But, you keep looking at this through your rose-colored glasses and see it the way you want. But sitting in an arrogant state, and never evaluating oneself will never allow you nor anyone else to grow. Just because some one can quote a few rules out of a rule book does not make them a good official. And since I do not know your true identity, I cannot tell you whether I feel you are a good official or not. But I can tell you, that through your posts, you come off as arrogant and a know-it-all. I just hope it's not that way when you are on the mat, because the kids depend on you to do a fair job, and be consistent.

I just need to make one thing sumwhat clear, there are sum TN officials that do call national tournaments each year.

[2blLeg]

Something else occurs to me. If the Nash refs were calling stalling against your region but not their own, doesnt that just make sense?

 

The Nashville area wrestlers have had the benefit of this excellent officiating all year long. Therefore, they have learned not to stall, they know these officials are going to stick them for it. We hate when during the season our wrestlers go to out of town tournaments in west TN because they come back home lazy, and we got to break them in all over again.

 

It would seem to me if you would work on that end of it, not stalling during the match, there would be no problem.

 

 

let me help you out a bit, seeing as how you are missing some MAJOR information here.

 

First, I believe very few teams from the middle or east part of the state have come to the west side this year, so I'm not sure you can say anything about how they are when they return home. I'm not sure, but I believe it's been over 4 years since Fr Ryan has come this way. BA comes every year, MBA comes at least once, last year was twice. But that's it.

 

Next, if you look at CBHS's schedule, they wrestled 11 tournaments this season (this includes duals, individuals, and the state), and of those only 2 were in west TN. SO I would have to qualify them as one the more traveled teams in the state. Seeing as how they probably put in over 5,000 miles of traveling this year to find competition. This includes the Toshiba Classic, which they placed 8th out of 32 teams. And in all that traveling, there have been so very few stalling calls. So to say that west TN is a stalling style of wrestling is stupid, or that they need to learn how to wrestle to the end. In KC, I beleive there were 3 warnings issued the entire team. And of that, not 1 penalty point. So if you are going to tell me that TN refs are better than what you would see at a national caliber tournament, again you are so wrong. I've looked at some of the other schools in the state, and I would say that on average, they travel outside the state once, maybe twice. So, again, I would think that CBHS has seen more officiating from all areas of the country than most TN teams.

 

But, you keep looking at this through your rose-colored glasses and see it the way you want. But sitting in an arrogant state, and never evaluating oneself will never allow you nor anyone else to grow. Just because some one can quote a few rules out of a rule book does not make them a good official. And since I do not know your true identity, I cannot tell you whether I feel you are a good official or not. But I can tell you, that through your posts, you come off as arrogant and a know-it-all. I just hope it's not that way when you are on the mat, because the kids depend on you to do a fair job, and be consistent.

I just need to make one thing sumwhat clear, there are sum TN officials that do call national tournaments each year.

 

No one said there weren't. And no one said that we don't have some good ones in TN.

[Heybou]

While this match was called extremely unfairly, I want to commend both wrestlers for keeping their composure through the ridiculous stalling calls and the two incorrect takedown calls. Neither wrestler ever had stalling in mind, and I think that was clear to everyone except Bowler. I'm surprised Manley was able to stay with a gameplan when his opponent can take him down out of bounds while he was not awarded a takedown in bounds. Then when he tries to keeps his opponent on the mat with a hard spiral-he is stalling.

[keefjams]

Mike Craft was the ref in the 160 match

 

Mike, in my intelligent yet humble opininon is one of the 3 best refs in the State.

 

bcb iii

 

I can't believe you know 3 refs. How did your new Chick like the tournament?