Alcoa 64 Middlesboro 0?

[Govolsknox]

If you are being serious and not joking around (I'm assuming you are joking, actually), MBA has tried for years to get a game with Maryville and they have no interest. We did manage a two-game, sold-out crowd series with Hillsboro, which we won both of including a victory over Hillsboro's Maryville-defeating 4A title team. Guess who dropped that series?

 

In addition, the Clinic Bowl organizers in its inagural year as a kick-off game (2005) tried to create a week 0 (that's how week 0 started--so that D2 would have more freedom to schedule D1 schools) match-up involving a double-header with MBA, BA, Riverdale, and Maryville that would have probably generated the biggest crowds TN HS football has ever seen, as well as huge dollars for charity. Again, no interest from the public side.

 

Well of course a DII school with the ability to offer scholarships SHOULD be able to defeat a little old DI school that has a much smaller talent pool.

Edited September 1, 2010 by Govolsknox

[OmahaVol]

It is not Alcoa or Maryville that has put you all into a separate Division , if it was up to me , We'd play you just like you are . I was on 2 State Championship teams that beat Brentwood Academy both times .... there was none of our players going , oh no , they've got an unfair advantage !

 

darn, were you there for all four title trips in a row? I know they went 2-2.

[Redtwin]

Well of course a DII school with the ability to offer scholarships SHOULD be able to defeat a little old DI school that has a much smaller talent pool.

 

You people fail to understand that there is a difference between financial aid and a scholarship. The DII schools give Financial Aid not athletic scholarships and the need is determined by an independent entity.

 

Just for arguements sake, how is this any different than a family from out of zone paying to attend Maryville or Alcoa? Both require tuition except in the latter situation, the tuition is much less and the academic requirements significantly lower.

[BCsportsfan]

OK.......how about MBA scheduling Alcoa in 2011 and 2012!

[BCsportsfan]

I’m sure that Baylor and McCallie – pariahs in Chattanooga and surrounding areas – love playing 9-game schedules like they are playing this year.

 

I'm sure they would rather play 9 games then go to Blount County for a tenth game.

 

You can play all those mythical matchups and the "they beat them and they beat them" matchups.

 

It is funny how Alcoa always losses the mythical matchups But, if you look at the facts it reads differently. I can go back 21 years of Alcoa vs DII's and its not 70% wins....it's 100%!

 

The topic of the post "why is Alcoa playing Middlesboro?"

 

Hmmm......Better question would be why is MBA and McCallie playing down to DI 3A schools? Why does BA travel to Memphis to play DI Kingsbury? Odd. Looks like they could schedule better competition like Ensworth did this year. Too, bad the DI schools (Oakland and Smyrna) are going to have a field day with them!

[rollredroll]

I'm sure they would rather play 9 games then go to Blount County for a tenth game.

 

You can play all those mythical matchups and the "they beat them and they beat them" matchups.

 

It is funny how Alcoa always losses the mythical matchups But, if you look at the facts it reads differently. I can go back 21 years of Alcoa vs DII's and its not 70% wins....it's 100%!

 

The topic of the post "why is Alcoa playing Middlesboro?"

 

Hmmm......Better question would be why is MBA and McCallie playing down to DI 3A schools? Why does BA travel to Memphis to play DI Kingsbury? Odd. Looks like they could schedule better competition like Ensworth did this year. Too, bad the DI schools (Oakland and Smyrna) are going to have a field day with them!

 

A case in point of the futility of these arguments: it’s the cherry-picking.

 

You give an example of Alcoa over a 21-year period. But, in the next breath, you back MBA and McCallie and BA into a one-year (this year) corner. Look at those schools over 21 years (or 13 DII years) and make it apples-to-apples. Smyrna? BA beat that butt a few years ago. Oakland? BA and MBA did the same to them this decade. Examples galore if you look.

 

Why is MBA and McCallie "playing down" to DI 3A schools? An Alcoa person doesn’t need to ask that. When you get your hat handed to you for years, you cry uncle. And when the bigger DI schools continue to cry uncle, you have to go down the food chain. Or out of state. The fact you’re trying to paint 2010 as a proxy for all-time is preposterous, plain and simple, and underscores the futility.

 

So Alcoa is undefeated against DII schools over that period (the period only goes back 13 years; DII didn’t exist 21 years ago)? Great. They are in the minority. You can’t pass off what one school has done as a trend. Look at all DI schools and their records. Look at all DII schools and their records. Where is the trend over the whole sample over multiple years?

 

Want more respect? Give some. Others deserve it. Quite a bit in many cases.

 

Yes, Alcoa does lose a lot of these mythical matchups. I think I read on another thread about Alcoa being 0-100 in these mythical matchups. Obviously, that’s not realistic. But that 0 in the win column gets about 330 wins added to it when the mythical claims of “best in any class†arise.

 

Love ya, man, but you’re not winning the scheduling argument with anyone who doesn’t have ties to Alcoa or MBA. And for those without a bias, start at the link below. I had to abandon this project to take on other tasks – primarily digging deeper into the illustrious histories of many DI SCHOOLS like Alcoa, D-B, etc. – but it’s a good enough start, and I can assure anyone the trends continue in 2005 and beyond, which will be borne out when I can finish. Click on the year headers and see the schools played by DII schools. It ain’t exactly Harpeth Hall and GPS.

 

DII Records

[big red big blue]

OK.......how about MBA scheduling Alcoa in 2011 and 2012!

 

If we are talking about things that have no chance of happening...

 

Why don't you open up your window, jump out, and fly home from work today?

[Govolsknox]

You people fail to understand that there is a difference between financial aid and a scholarship. The DII schools give Financial Aid not athletic scholarships and the need is determined by an independent entity.

 

Just for arguements sake, how is this any different than a family from out of zone paying to attend Maryville or Alcoa? Both require tuition except in the latter situation, the tuition is much less and the academic requirements significantly lower.

 

I can't speak for everyone on the boards, but I can assure you I have a pretty comprehensive understanding of the DI and DII differences. While DII privates don't offer an "athletic scholarship," the need based aid allows students to attend the school AND play varsity sports while receiving financial aid for a kid that would otherwise never be able to afford the private school education. If that child happens to be a fantastic athlete that any school in the state would love to have on their team, than that is certainly an advantage. A wonderful opportunity that I fully support, but it is completely different than a DI private school which CAN offer financial aid, but any child who receives that financial aid cannot participate in a varsity sport. While the DII schools offer financial aid to many students who are not athletes, this forum is to discuss HS athletics, and there are certainly a number of outstanding athletes throughout the state that attend DII schools with financial aid who otherwise would be attending a public school. Again, this is completely within the rules, but it is a clear-cut advantage.

 

NOW.....As to my earlier comment about a DII school beating a little old DI school with a much smaller talent pool: I have to admit that the comment was tongue in cheek. My friends from Alcoa and I have talked quite a bit about the open zone schools policy that is also a clear cut advantage, regardless of whether Alcoa's success is in part a result of that policy or not. IMO, this is the last remaining area where the TSSAA is obligated to address an advantage as a result of school's having a larger talent pool to draw from. But that is a topic for another thread.

 

http://www.coacht.com/boards/index.php/topic/202183-open-zone-schools-a-level-playing-field/page__hl__%22a+level+playing+field%22

Edited September 1, 2010 by Govolsknox

[big red big blue]

Again, this is completely within the rules, but it is a clear-cut advantage.

 

How can you say that when your team scheduled and beat McCallie TWICE this decade? No one throws around more financial aid money than McCallie. And yet "poor little Alcoa" with what....300 students? whipped them twice. I mean McCallie entered that game with my guess a 4:1 advantage in male students. Throw in financial aid?!?!?!? That's not even a fair fight, right? You at Alcoa should have been worried about your players' safety, much less actually competing in the game....but lo and behold, Alcoa won....TWICE.

 

So if tiny Alcoa can do it? Why can't Maryville? Why can't Riverdale? Why can't Brentwood High? Alcoa should be the inspiration to everyone in the state. What better bragging rights than Alcoa playing and winning those two games? Ditto for Oakland, Smyrna, Ravenwood, LaVergne, Independence, etc., as big-time d1 teams willing to put it on the line against d2 teams.

 

I'm telling you the travesty here is that Rankin is going to ruin that part of your tradition. The king schedule ducker of all time taking over the most fearless program in the state. Just remember Alcoa was Alcoa long before he showed up.

[pepvol]

darn, were you there for all four title trips in a row? I know they went 2-2.

 

I Was A Sophomore in 76 -we beat BA , We got beat by Milan In State Championship my Jr. year , and we beat BA again my senior year .

[Redtwin]

I'm sure they would rather play 9 games then go to Blount County for a tenth game.

 

You can play all those mythical matchups and the "they beat them and they beat them" matchups.

 

It is funny how Alcoa always losses the mythical matchups But, if you look at the facts it reads differently. I can go back 21 years of Alcoa vs DII's and its not 70% wins....it's 100%!

 

The topic of the post "why is Alcoa playing Middlesboro?"

 

Hmmm......Better question would be why is MBA and McCallie playing down to DI 3A schools? Why does BA travel to Memphis to play DI Kingsbury? Odd. Looks like they could schedule better competition like Ensworth did this year. Too, bad the DI schools (Oakland and Smyrna) are going to have a field day with them!

 

You make it appear as though MBA consistently schedules noncompetitive 3A teams which is not accurate. MBA and Pearl Cohn have a long standing relationship dating back to the 1960s. The game between these two schools is traditionally one of the best public v. private games in middle TN. Not to mention that PC is usually quite competitive in their own classification. Look at historical MBA schedules and let me know how many other 3A or lower teams show up.

[Redtwin]

I can't speak for everyone on the boards, but I can assure you I have a pretty comprehensive understanding of the DI and DII differences. While DII privates don't offer an "athletic scholarship," the need based aid allows students to attend the school AND play varsity sports while receiving financial aid for a kid that would otherwise never be able to afford the private school education. If that child happens to be a fantastic athlete that any school in the state would love to have on their team, than that is certainly an advantage. A wonderful opportunity that I fully support, but it is completely different than a DI private school which CAN offer financial aid, but any child who receives that financial aid cannot participate in a varsity sport. While the DII schools offer financial aid to many students who are not athletes, this forum is to discuss HS athletics, and there are certainly a number of outstanding athletes throughout the state that attend DII schools with financial aid who otherwise would be attending a public school. Again, this is completely within the rules, but it is a clear-cut advantage.

 

How is this any different from a private school other than the fact that tuition is cheaper and the academics are not demanding? It appears to me that this would be more of an advantage when compared to the academic rigor of the DII privates. Students are simply passed along at these schools. They don't have the luxury of the Rae Sykes of the world who can't even qualify for UT.

 

Also, even with financial aid, most famalies at the DII schools pay significantly more than the $1500 or whatever it is to attend an open zone school from out of state.