Northeast Tennessee Conference Alignment

[SPEAR24]

Its funny, you make a few good points in this post but like a good little DB Hater you've got to bash the Tribe. What I don't understand is why do you think you can just make up this garbage, post it here, and not have a DB fan call you out on it. To start with you screen name "ChurchHillFootballFan" tells us that you know very little about football. You need to stick to breeding goats and killin' coons and leave the football talk to the people that actually have a team in the playoffs more than once every 15 years. But let me just point out what parts of your post are lies. DB did not just "try" to schedule teams like Farragut & Oak Ridge, they "did" schedule them. We played teams like that every year and beat them more times than not. We lead the series in wins against Farragut, one of Knoxville's better teams, and I believe we're one up on Oak Ridge, one of the states better programs. DB has played toe to toe with MBA, one of if not the top private school in Tennessee. Beating them in Nashville on their own field when they were ranked #16 in the Nation and ending their 36 game win streak. Losing to them at J. Fred the next year in three overtimes. DB has not had a good playoff record the past 5 years, but you try to make it look like its always been this way. DB has had more success in the playoffs than most of the Knoxville teams, and for sure most of the local teams. South and Science Hill have more first round playoff loses than DB so Your one & done label that you try to stick on DB makes you look foolish. DB isn't even in the top 20 in the state as for as losing in the first round. You are living in a dream world. Who are these Knoxville teams that have destroyed DB every year? Are you smoking crack? I think we have some people that are just upset that DB didn't stay down after last year as they were predicting. Well welcome to the real world.

 

ps: That last paragraph was a real laugh. And im pretty sure Greenville didn't win the 4A championship last year. You need to find a new hobbie there goat roper.

 

Now thats funny

[WaCoJaCo]

Oh, and one more thing there Goat roper. I forgot to address your claim that DB is overated every year by the fans and media. The media in upper east tn. votes in the polls. Some of the other areas of the state don't bother. This skews the polls. The media in upper east tn. are bias and the same is true with other parts of the state. Last year Tennessee High was ranked #1 in the state in 5a, but they were a top 10 team at best. I didn't see your comment about them being overated. As for the fans DB fans are no different than any other high school. Read some of the threads. Everybody that has a good team thinks their going to win state. They all talk trash from game to game. You DB Haters camp out on DB's threads and thats all you know. No group of fans in upper east tn. have been more overconfident than South. You need to give them equal time with your next post.

[RebelConvert]

Oh, and one more thing there Goat roper. I forgot to address your claim that DB is overated every year by the fans and media. The media in upper east tn. votes in the polls. Some of the other areas of the state don't bother. This skews the polls. The media in upper east tn. are bias and the same is true with other parts of the state. Last year Tennessee High was ranked #1 in the state in 5a, but they were a top 10 team at best. I didn't see your comment about them being overated. As for the fans DB fans are no different than any other high school. Read some of the threads. Everybody that has a good team thinks their going to win state. They all talk trash from game to game. You DB Haters camp out on DB's threads and thats all you know. No group of fans in upper east tn. have been more overconfident than South. You need to give them equal time with your next post.

 

So I'm curious WaCoJaCo how do you feel about the conference alignment? Does it weaken the playoff games being in the Big 8 or does it matter? If it does weaken it in your opinion, who should DB line up against in a conference other than Science Hill? Just so you know I am not being condiscinding (sp?), I really do want your opinion.

[RebelConvert]

Our NET area is not quite as rural as some parts of the state. West TN for example. We have no choice but to use census as the primary factor in classification. When one looks at a particular school and deems it a football or a basketball school then it is largely a coaching consequence. In our area it is many times the smaller schools (census wise) that have the superior programs. Numbers do call the shots but coaching puts the icing on the cake. The Centrals and Volunteers of the world are not condemed to football Hades because they don't have sufficient numbers. Contrar, they have numbers and as well they have historical dominance on the GridIron. When Central lost Colonial Heights to South it seemed the end of their football success. But Volunteer has no excuse because Church Hill was a powerhouse in the Upper Lakes Conference in the 60's and 70's. Why, combining them with Surgoinsville ruined them? You can say what you want but coaching is everything. Yes, administration is usually nothing more than a stick in the mud. But a great coach can cause them to get off their dead rear end and do something. It speaks for itself. Shawn Whitten, Coach Norris, Stacy Carter, Don Woods, Greenville, Hampton, Cloudland. South is a perfect example of what a quality coach can accomplish in short order. And with inferior numbers. It's all about the coach people. You can cry about the classification, the schedule all you want but it's all about the coach. You say there is more speed west of Morristown? I tell you all you have to do is look in the state record books and you will find that the speed resided in NET in the early 70's. Where did it go? We got soft. From one end to the other we got soft. It takes hard parents to make hard children. Too much ice cream and soda pop...not enough yes sir and no sir...that's what the problem is.

 

I know high school teams can pick up optional sports so I assume they can drop them as well. Is it possible for a cellar team to drop their football program if it is costing them more than it is making the program? I guess I'm asking if a school isn't willing to invest in a program (i.e. coach), can they just drop it? If that happens what happens to the conference? There always has to be a bottom team. It's also hard to get kids excited about playing for a team that never wins. I came from a high school that wasn't accustomed to winning while I was there. The poor attitude of the community was parlayed onto the kids. I loved playing. I wasn't any good. We weren't expected to win, so we never really expected to win. Except for 1 maybe 2 games a year when we played another "bad" team. That was our season. If we could go 2-0 in those games that was our state. I know for you proud schools that probably seems lame, but oh well. Anyway, the reason to the reply to you Comp is, If it is coaching which the system decides the program isn't important enough to invest in a coach, then what? Is it best to remain at the cellar, align the teams according to talent, or just let those programs die?

[WaCoJaCo]

So I'm curious WaCoJaCo how do you feel about the conference alignment? Does it weaken the playoff games being in the Big 8 or does it matter? If it does weaken it in your opinion, who should DB line up against in a conference other than Science Hill? Just so you know I am not being condiscinding (sp?), I really do want your opinion.

 

I think the conferences should be lined up by 6A, 5A, 4A, ETC. No mix & match. Science Hill & DB can afford to travel to Knoxville & Sevierville and visa versa. Our non-conference games "could" still be South,Tennesse High, and Daniel Boone, but I would rather it be Oak Ridge, and maybe a team in the Nashville area. Playing the teams that are always ranked in the top 5 will give you a good ideal on what the playoff games are going to be like and what you need to work on to get ready. Playing teams like Central, Volunteer, etc. show you nothing. It does not help DB to beat Central, Volunteer, and Davy Crockett.

[RebelConvert]

I think the conferences should be lined up by 6A, 5A, 4A, ETC. No mix & match. Science Hill & DB can afford to travel to Knoxville & Sevierville and visa versa. Our non-conference games "could" still be South,Tennesse High, and Daniel Boone, but I would rather it be Oak Ridge, and maybe a team in the Nashville area. Playing the teams that are always ranked in the top 5 will give you a good ideal on what the playoff games are going to be like and what you need to work on to get ready. Playing teams like Central, Volunteer, etc. show you nothing. It does not help DB to beat Central, Volunteer, and Davy Crockett.

 

With the current system you are assured playoffs every year, barring a disaster. Would you trade that for not having that guarantee? In your opinion how often would DB see the playoffs in an all 6A conference? That may be the wrong question to ask a fan of the team, but you seem to be pretty objective.

[compusatman]

I know high school teams can pick up optional sports so I assume they can drop them as well. Is it possible for a cellar team to drop their football program if it is costing them more than it is making the program? I guess I'm asking if a school isn't willing to invest in a program (i.e. coach), can they just drop it? If that happens what happens to the conference? There always has to be a bottom team. It's also hard to get kids excited about playing for a team that never wins. I came from a high school that wasn't accustomed to winning while I was there. The poor attitude of the community was parlayed onto the kids. I loved playing. I wasn't any good. We weren't expected to win, so we never really expected to win. Except for 1 maybe 2 games a year when we played another "bad" team. That was our season. If we could go 2-0 in those games that was our state. I know for you proud schools that probably seems lame, but oh well. Anyway, the reason to the reply to you Comp is, If it is coaching which the system decides the program isn't important enough to invest in a coach, then what? Is it best to remain at the cellar, align the teams according to talent, or just let those programs die?

 

Of course I would bite on this debate. But it is an old. dried out, tuff as leather subject. It's called parents. Basically, it is a question...what do the parents want? Are they willing to take action for what they want? How far will they go? The second part of this argument is money. Souths Lady Rebels basketball team is a perfect example of what you speak. The bottom line for this scenario is...the parents will not stand up. They will talk the talk at the games and behind closed doors but when push comes to shove they step away. The Central football program is exemplary as well. Chas Seegar, Holston Middle Schools head football coach has been ultra successful at that school for nearly 20 years. I'm not sure if he is still there but he was ready and willing to go resurect the Central program fully 6 years ago. A Central alumnus himself and a football player, he is the sole reason for Holstons success. An exemplary christian man. And a winner on the football field. Who does Central take? Scott Nelson. The program got worse. And now Mr. Fox. I don't know Mr. Fox or Mr. Nelson and they both may be fine upstanding men. But it takes more than that. Blountville Middle School has not exactly been a football powerhouse in the past 15 years. So for all practical reasons, I am assuming the Central community got what it wanted. Because if they want more then it is readily available but they don't seem to care much. As far as dropping the program, I guess that is not an option in lieu of the money returned. Football is a money sport and to drop it would be shooting oneself in the foot. You need look no further than Gate City, Va and it's surrounding Southwest VA football towns. These people don't care about political correctness and they don't care whose feet they step on. Their coaches are diety. And they treat them as such. When they have a bad coach...they run, not walk, them out of town. You might think them to be barbaric but fact is they don't play musical chairs. Jessica Hayworth is a fine example of that mentality. Dobyn Bennett leads the way in this thinking. Their coaches are revered. And they don't seem to have a coaching turnover except every 20 years or so. Wonder why? But if a DB coach is a loser then that coach won't last long. Roger France is one extreme exception. To answer your last question, if the community has that little interest in producing a successful program then I wonder what they do have interest in? If they are content to dwell in the perverbial celler then I guess that becomes their heritage.

[Cap1]

This is only the second year the Big 8 has even existed in its current incarnation. IIRC, D-B was part of a Big 10 and a Big 8 back in the 70s/80s before the state went to 5 classifications in the late 80s/early 90s and then 6 last year.

 

DB's conference until '08 included Jeff County, Sevier County, and Science Hill, and they tried to schedule Oak Ridge and schools like Farragut and Bearden in non-conference games every year. They were still one and done. It's not about a weak schedule failing to prepare them for the playoffs. It's because they've always gotten the luxury of cruising through a cake conference and get OVERRATED every year by fans and media who watch them blow out mediocre teams! If they were in the Knoxville, Nashville, or Memphis areas, they'd be a 3rd or 4th seed at best and miss the playoffs around 50% of the time. Just like how they always get destroyed by a good Knoxville area team in the playoffs every year.

 

The current system's not perfect, but I actually like it because it preserves and encourages natural rivalries that've been there for decades, yet seperates teams out in the playoffs so that things are slightly more even. It's as close to the "best of both worlds" as you'll get. The only tweaks I'd like to see would be to take a page from European soccer's book and let the worst team in the conference have the option to drop down to a lower class for the next season, while the top team gets the option of moving up. Actually, I don't think soccer makes it optional: they just make you do it.

 

As CompUSAtman wrote, it's not about the size of the school, or even "the athletes," so much as it is the coaching (and the administrators who can either make or break a coach's plans). Central belongs in 4A by their current enrollment and the state admitted as much. Volunteer has been one of the worst coached teams in NETN for the past 3 seasons, rivaled by only Central, the Greene Co schools, and Unicoi County for sheer ineptitude. They've got athletes, but no one to show them how to play football and make a team out of them.

 

Science Hill had a nationally ranked basketball team throughout the 90s when George Pitts was there. Now they're merely "one of the best in the Big 8." Did that talent just disappear? No! But the coach did.

 

D-B typically has one of the state's best track teams and probably has as many guys in the NFL right now as any other HS in the state. Since they run the track program as a side business of the football program, you'd think all those great athletes would guarantee them state dominance, but it doesn't work like that.

 

Maryville, OTOH, doesn't send that many guys on to big time colleges. The Morristown schools, D-B, and Tennessee High all have more top tier talent and more BCS schools recruiting their kids than Maryville's ever had. Yet Maryville's one of the nation's best HS football teams. That whole community is obsessed with football, Quarles' staff is wonderful at developing and polishing the skills of the players they do have, and those kids work at it year round in a way that your typical D-B (or any other NE TN) athlete would find unthinkable.

 

That's the secret to winning a championship, and also the reason why most NE TN schools fail in the playoffs when they run up against a Maryville or an Alcoa. Only Greeneville and South have an inkling of what powers those schools, which is probably why Greeneville were 4A champs last year and South made the final 4. It's all about the coaching and having a supportive administration who understands and values football.

REALLY GOOD POST and great points!! And don’t worry about the WAC job… unless you are joining in with a chorus of WE ARE THE WORLD in the middle of JFJ stadium with the rest of their delusional followers, he labels you a hater. Several good points in your post. One being that this is only the second year that the DB Delusionals can make the claim (EXCUSE) that playing “weak†competition has hampered their playoff performance… and to be honest they can’t even say that about last year because the couldn’t even finish top two in a 5A conference, and Science Hill only won 4 games. IMO DB has had the coaching… and have talent and size… but just not enough LATELY (in comparison) to really compete in 6A football. Science Hill has had the talent but not the coaching… but hopefully that is changing.

 

IMO TALENT AND COACHING will dictate how good you are and how far you go in the playoffs. Who you play has NOTHING to do with the short term affect of a teams success. I will add that if you have the constant talent and the coaching your PROGRAM can and will benefit from being surrounded by strong competition. An example of this fact would be Greeneville (coaching and steady talent). But East has also been playing up for YEARS now… and are no better for their efforts (they may have coaching but the talent pool is low in comparison).

Edited September 9, 2010 by Cap1

[compusatman]

With the current system you are assured playoffs every year, barring a disaster. Would you trade that for not having that guarantee? In your opinion how often would DB see the playoffs in an all 6A conference? That may be the wrong question to ask a fan of the team, but you seem to be pretty objective.

 

The current system is a joke. You should not need to hear others opinions to know this. It is not the lottery. Although it quite resembles one. This game is not about guarantees.

[Cap1]

I agree with both of you guys . . . Unfortunately economics will always rule the decision making process. Not just the travel expenses for the schools, but visitor gate revenue would also suffer. D-B and Science Hill will just have to find a way to raise their level of play where we can compete with the rest of the state. I believe D-B for the most part is on the door step most every year. They just need to make that step. And Science Hill is two or three steps away.

 

There is a serious focus on the football program at Science Hill that I have NEVER seen before. So maybe Science Hill can rise-up and together with D-B attack the rest of the state of Tennessee and make some noise and bring home that elusive gold ball to Northeast Tennessee.

In all honesty DB and Science Hill are going to be hard pressed to ever get to "The Big Dance" with the Great Wall of Blount County in your path. Greeneville by far has the best chance to bring a Gold Ball back to NET because Betsy has that Great Wall to climb. After that I think our best chance will be in 5A competition.

[RebelConvert]

The current system is a joke. You should not need to hear others opinions to know this. It is not the lottery. Although it quite resembles one. This game is not about guarantees.

 

Agreed. However, according to the format and correct me if I am wrong, if Science Hill goes 0-10 and DB goes 1-9 with the win coming against Science Hill they make the playoffs, right? I know that will not happen just a far fetched scenario, but it would go that way, right? So I was just curious as to which WaCoJaCo would prefer. What's the stantard you are reaching for year in and year out? A winning program or a winning program against the best of the best? Does it matter if you go 10-0 but lose in the playoffs? No offense to the Vikings. Does each person have their own standards or is there one set standard?

[Fmo]

The current system is a joke. You should not need to hear others opinions to know this. It is not the lottery. Although it quite resembles one. This game is not about guarantees.

Why not hear others opinions, after all this is a message board which seeks ones opinion. Plus it keeps it all a going. What better to talk about than the great friday night football. ooorahh