Ensworth's Last 2 Last Plays

[hdcastle]

I've been reading a lot of posts regarding Ensworth's TD calls that put them up for good against BA and Baylor and how they were both blown calls by the officials. Under further review, I found that both may be completely justified.

 

While Cory Batey's foot DID come out of bounds, he was forced out by the DB. The force out rule still exists in high school and as I learned tonight, so do 5 yard face masks.

 

Here's a screen shot of the catch against BA, it look like #5 has made contact with the WR before he stepped out of bounds.

 

 

Regarding David Dingess' catch against Baylor in the back of the endzone, it appears like he had full possession and was in bounds. I don't have the highlights yet but I can post them tomorrow.

 

Here's a pic from highschoolsports.net, no feet but it sure looks like he has the ball. A friend who was watching the TV feed in the pressbox said the replay showed it as a catch. Duel possession goes to the offense.

 

[wareagle958]

I've been reading a lot of posts regarding Ensworth's TD calls that put them up for good against BA and Baylor and how they were both blown calls by the officials. Under further review, I found that both may be completely justified.

 

While Cory Batey's foot DID come out of bounds, he was forced out by the DB. The force out rule still exists in high school and as I learned tonight, so do 5 yard face masks.

 

Here's a screen shot of the catch against BA, it look like #5 has made contact with the WR before he stepped out of bounds.

 

 

Regarding David Dingess' catch against Baylor in the back of the endzone, it appears like he had full possession and was in bounds. I don't have the highlights yet but I can post them tomorrow.

 

Here's a pic from highschoolsports.net, no feet but it sure looks like he has the ball. A friend who was watching the TV feed in the pressbox said the replay showed it as a catch. Duel possession goes to the offense.

 

 

 

It sure looks like he has the ball? Is that a joke? And I'm sure your friend in orange and black saw it as a catch as well. Post the highlights because everybody else on the other threads has said the kid was out.

[warhawk]

thats a great picture. its cool you can see jacobs hands touching the ball and the receivers hands on the outside of jacobs.

[hdcastle]

thats a great picture. its cool you can see jacobs hands touching the ball and the receivers hands on the outside of jacobs.

 

I'm pretty sure that would mean duel possession, which goes to the offense.

[mtnrasslin]

I'm pretty sure that would mean duel possession, which goes to the offense.

I wonder if it makes any difference if you are out of bounds and then come back in to make the catch?

Edited December 3, 2010 by mtnrasslin

[shakinthefat]

I've been reading a lot of posts regarding Ensworth's TD calls that put them up for good against BA and Baylor and how they were both blown calls by the officials. Under further review, I found that both may be completely justified.

 

While Cory Batey's foot DID come out of bounds, he was forced out by the DB. The force out rule still exists in high school and as I learned tonight, so do 5 yard face masks.

 

Here's a screen shot of the catch against BA, it look like #5 has made contact with the WR before he stepped out of bounds.

The official is not looking at the feet and never did. He signaled a TD upon the catch. If the defender forced receiver out then it is the officials responsibility to explain to the head coach the reason for the TD call, nothing was ever said or explained. That is a lack of professionalism. BA players questioned him but he ignored them. I agree that is the hardest call in football to make, corner endzone jump ball, but one official should watch the catch and interference and the other official should watch feet.

 

Oh Well....Water over the dam.

[hdcastle]

I have the last play now, Dingess and Huesman definitely have duel possession inbounds but it is very unclear if Dingess stepped out of bounds before he went up for the catch because of movement of the camera. I'll try to find a better angle, I should have those highlights up Monday.

[hdcastle]

Here's brief highlight video. Once again, you can't tell if Dingess stepped out or not before but he definitely had possession inbounds when the ref put his arms up. If he did step out it was by a toenail.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CyjFK1Myys

[KWoodroof]

The official is not looking at the feet and never did. He signaled a TD upon the catch. If the defender forced receiver out then it is the officials responsibility to explain to the head coach the reason for the TD call, nothing was ever said or explained. That is a lack of professionalism. BA players questioned him but he ignored them. I agree that is the hardest call in football to make, corner endzone jump ball, but one official should watch the catch and interference and the other official should watch feet.

 

Oh Well....Water over the dam.

Do you have any idea how the responsibilities are divided for officials in cases like that? Also, how many officials are there in a game at that level? Finally, is it a crew that's worked together during the season, or several officials who are assigned together?

[BLUEMOM]

Here goes... with consult from hubby official with state championship experience complete with ring....

 

You have 5 officials on the field with one clock operator in high school. The clock man is supposed to be on the sideline.

 

The assignment responsibilities for a endzone jump ball fall on the shoulders of 2 primary officials. The closest sideman and the back judge. The backjudge should watch the end line and the sideman has the sideline for the entire length of the field. The physically closest official is responsible for interference calls and/or simultaneous catch calls. Interference, simultaneous catch calls are purely judgment calls. The school/TSSAA pays the official for his "judgement" in these matters. The school pays during regular season and the TSSAA pays during the playoffs.

 

During the regular season, it is usually a crew that stays constant throughout the season. Upon reaching playoffs, more often than not it is a "mixed" crew. In the Chattanooga area, an official is selected for playoffs based on test scores on rules knowledge and on field performance. On field performance is graded at least twice during the season by a state supervisor. Hopefully, the mixed crew provides above average officials at every position. Should the best available.

 

I would say that the crew who worked the championship game most likely worked a playoff game earlier in the post season together. The crew was out of West Tenn if I remember correctly.

[shakinthefat]

Do you have any idea how the responsibilities are divided for officials in cases like that? Also, how many officials are there in a game at that level? Finally, is it a crew that's worked together during the season, or several officials who are assigned together?

 

I do not know the exact responsibilities. But the officials should be aware of the corner endzone pass coming and be ready to look at feet. If the official viewed the db forced the receiver out of bounds then he should tell opposing team coach of his judgement call. Sometimes the official doesn't have the angle he needs to make the proper call, but this official was right there.

 

How many official's? There were 5 on field officials, and one official handling clock duties, not sure if they worked together before. Probably Top Secret TSSAA info.

 

Football official's have to know what your duties encompass. They include explaining and announcing penalties, observing to see if any explaining illegal blocks or hits have been made on the quarterback, or explaining judgement calls on controversial passes and fumbles. Their responsibility is to make certain that the proper rules are always enforced.

 

As for the Baylor game, if he (EHS Receiver) had steped out on his own without being forced out, the official would have thrown his hat or bean bag at the spot. If the catches the ball, it is live a flag will be thrown to the spot and the the foul is Illegal Touching, loss of down no yardage is assessed. It is treated like an incomplete pass. Most likely the FJ not the LJ would have been responsible for the call. Althought the LJ could help.

 

Bottom line - Being able to handle the gray areas of judgment and enforcement is critical!

Edited December 9, 2010 by shakinthefat

[BLUEMOM]

You no longer have a FJ in high school football. You have a linesman on the chain side and a linejudge on the home side. You have a back judge, an umpire and a referee.

 

The explanation is given to the crowd/announcers/coaches via hand signals from the referee. May or may not have microphone. Offending player #'s are relayed by side officials to the appropriate side. It is assumed that the coaches have attended their required meetings and know their rules books and the signals and can understand them. IF the head coach disagrees with ANY call he/she has the right to request a conference with the referee. If the official/referee does not reverse their decision, it will cost the coach a time out. If the coach doesn't have a time out remaining, it will cost them 5 yards in delay of game.

 

Officials will only offer requested explanations to a head coach (or an assistant acting in that capacity) or a team captain. Should an explanation be provided to every player asking for a flag whether it is deserved or not? Most attempt to be courteous and give them. Admittedly, they do not have a chalkboard and a ton of time.

 

If a complete explanation were required on every call just think how long our games would become!

 

As to illegal touching, it is a loss of 5 yards and loss of down. Rule 7.5.13

If a player is blocked out of bounds he must return a first available opportunity (marked spot with hat/bag if can). If he dawdles and comes back in later it is a penalty for illegal participation 9.6.1 15 yard penalty.