MBA

[hoosierdad]

I commend you for trying to educate the public as to what is goig on @ MBA. The one question that I have is are you truly able to be objective when your sister is married to Daniel McGugin?

You have got to be kidding me...............................

 

Now we have family posting on here defending what transpired. I find it interesting that the MBA community is helping pay a student athlete's tuition. I find it hard to believe your statement, "this happens all the time at numerous institutions". What institutions are you talking about? Certainly you have proof or you would not have thrown this out. Is this a rumor or misinformation? You need to practice what you preach.

 

Family...........you gotta love them.

 

As for dragging somebody through the mud, I believe you did when you mentioned the name Bill Wilson. Certainly, you know better. You might want to practice what you preached. What you said about Mr. Wilson was low, and I mean real low.

 

Take a good look in the mirror and ask yourself, if you really are Coach McGugin's brother in law, do I really want to do this?

 

I can only speculate that Coach B. must be shaking his head wondering what is going on with his beloved school.

[Redtwin]

I commend you for trying to educate the public as to what is goig on @ MBA. The one question that I have is are you truly able to be objective when your sister is married to Daniel McGugin?

 

I don't see where there is a need to be objective. The facts are what they are.

 

If no TSSAA violation has occurred. What is the issue?

[cbg]

I don't see where there is a need to be objective. The facts are what they are.

 

If no TSSAA violation has occurred. What is the issue?

Read the post of coachfoozeball as he has quoted the TSSAA handbook. Benard may let you off the hook but my guess it that Ronnie Carter would hang you from a tall tree.

 

How long do you feel that it would have taken Mr. Francis Carter to make a decision regarding this matter? Was Mr. Carter not the headmaster that expelled a student for wearing another students PE uniform without his permission?

[Byronhasfleas]

Violation in appearance & perception - definitely YES! - and reason enough to take action on if Honor is of importance at an institution molding young people. Violation by the interpreted letter of the ruling - Probably - it depends on how you spin the description of what/how it happened.

 

What I don't hear anybody saying is that it did not happen! Sorry, but family (brothers-in-law included) doesn't hold a lot of weight when it comes to defending honor and character in this case. Also, I don't know the gentleman that is referenced as the big money person at MBA but it was a low-blow to drag his name into it. Amazing to think that this is the first time that someone with money has tried to voice their opinion by voting with their pocketbook at MBA!

[oblong]

Violation in appearance & perception - definitely YES! - and reason enough to take action on if Honor is of importance at an institution molding young people. Violation by the interpreted letter of the ruling - Probably - it depends on how you spin the description of what/how it happened.

 

What I don't hear anybody saying is that it did not happen! Sorry, but family (brothers-in-law included) doesn't hold a lot of weight when it comes to defending honor and character in this case. Also, I don't know the gentleman that is referenced as the big money person at MBA but it was a low-blow to drag his name into it. Amazing to think that this is the first time that someone with money has tried to voice their opinion by voting with their pocketbook at MBA!

 

What's not being discussed is how did this issue come to pass? What happened that precipitated MBA to consult the TSSAA multiple times?

 

If the matter took place 3 years ago, then why was it a secret to the MBA administration? Whatever happened was apparently kept quiet (by someone) for 3 years so as to not bring attention, correct?

 

What is Mr. Wilson's issue with C McGugin? Interesting as to why a highly successful, 60-70 year old man would have a grudge with a young football coach in his early 30's. Weird.

 

I would be interested in how the majority of the current football players/families feel about what is/has happened. Are they standing up and fighting for Coach McGugin or throwing a party?

 

My hunch is the latter...

[RedRobin]

I

As to the fireable offense. The instance dates back to 2008 when a family received money from the MBA community to help with tuition. This happens all the time at numerous institutions and it was not some illicit scheme concocted by the head coach. The TSSAA has been consulted on multiple occasions this week to look into the legality of the issue and to see if there were any infractions. They have repeatedly responded that there were no rules broken and that Coach McGugin and MBA are not in violation of any TSSAA regulations. Any action taken on Coach McGugin at this point would be based strictly on pressure from the big money folks at MBA, namely Wilson. The decision lies in the hands of Headmaster Brad Gioia.

 

 

I have no idea what might or might not have transpired at MBA and I have no comment regarding that. I do however, beg to differ with you regarding your choice to apparently spread malicious rumour regarding other D II schools. Based solely upon your self-proclaimed "facts" , it appears that the alleged "scholarship" was awarded informally by some members of "the MBA community", but clearly not through normal financial aid channels at MBA. If that is the case, then (1) there has occurred a clear violation of TSSAA rules (again, based solely upon the facts as portrayed by you, a self-proclaimed MBA alumnus/supporter claiming "inside" knowledge) and (2) you are spreading a malicious, unfounded rumour regarding other D II schools. The relevant portion of the TSSAA Bylaws follows [emphasis added]:

 

Tuition and Financial Aid

Section 16. If tuition is charged, it must be paid by parent, bona fide guardian or other family member. If a parent, guardian or other family member secures a loan for payment of tuition, it must remain an obligation of the parents, guardian or other family member to repay the principle and interest in full with no exceptions. Financial aid will be allowed under the following conditions:

1. Children of full-time faculty members may be given financial aid, but such students, if transfers, shall be ineligible for 12 months in any sport in which they have an athletic record for the previous or current year.

2. Financial aid may be awarded on the basis of need, but proof of such need must be filed in the TSSAA office on forms approved by the Executive Director. In order to determine the basis for need, all schools awarding financial aid shall use one of the following services in order to determine the basis for need: FACTS Grant and Aid Assessment (FACTS), Financial Aid for School Tuition (FAST), School and Student Scholastic Service for Financial Aid (SSS), Family Financial Needs Assessment (FFNA), Private School Aid Services, or Smart Tuition Aid. Schools must choose one of the companies for all student-athletes. A committee consisting of School Heads from Division II schools and one ex-officio, non-voting member from the Board of Control and Legislative Council will meet and make recommendations to the Board of Control on each student submitted. In addition, this committee will collect information from schools regarding financial aid statistics, grant procedures, and the overall financial aid program within the school. The Board of Control will then rule on all cases at the August meeting. The Board of Control shall have authority to reject the basis of need for students when in its opinion, or in the opinion of the school committee, the amount of need stated by the financial service cannot be justified.

3. Any loan program, grant program, educational foundation or similar program that is established and/or administered, in whole or in part, by a school or official of a school is considered financial aid.

Schools shall remove any student from athletic eligibility whose accounts with the school are 60 days overdue.

All records pertaining to financial aid or tuition assistance shall be open to TSSAA upon its request. Each school shall be responsible for securing necessary authorization to allow TSSAA to review or audit such records.

 

 

If the tuition was paid by other than a parent, bona fide guardian or other family member, then it is financial aid. Clearly, informal financial aid arrangements, such as you seem to imply may have occurred here, do not meet these requirements. I have no idea where you get your information that TSSAA has indicated that no violation occurred, but if you portray the facts correctly, then they are clearly wrong (not sure why MBA would feel the need to contact TSSAA "repeatedly" to get an informal ruling if this is an isolated incident).

 

I hope MBA engaged in no wrongdoing and that it is exonerated fully. It is a strong institution, and will remain so whatever ultimately happens here. However, I cannot and will not sit idly by while some such as you provide "information" which is inaccurate and which improperly casts aspersion on other fine institutions.

Edited April 15, 2011 by RedRobin

[Redtwin]

Read the post of coachfoozeball as he has quoted the TSSAA handbook. Benard may let you off the hook but my guess it that Ronnie Carter would hang you from a tall tree.

 

How long do you feel that it would have taken Mr. Francis Carter to make a decision regarding this matter? Was Mr. Carter not the headmaster that expelled a student for wearing another students PE uniform without his permission?

 

I never had the pleasure of knowing Mr. Carter, so I'm not familiar with the example to which you are referring. He was before my time at MBA. Discipline was never something that was taken lightly while I was on The Hill though.

 

As for the quote from the TSSAA handbook that coachfoozeball referenced, I'm not familiar with that document or how it is or has been applied or interpreted because I'm not in a position (a coach or administrator) that would have ever required me to read it, so know one would be hanging me anywhere. I also don't know the difference in Mr. Childress' or Mr. Carter's opinions or how they enforce them. I trust the people at MBA who are responsible for being familiar with these policies and the people that enforce them to make sure the are complied with properly. If there wasn't a violation, then I don't see what the issue is. If there was a violation, then there is an issue and I would expect that the proper person would be held accountable.

 

Again, I don't know if you meant "you" as in me personally or MBA as an institution, but I can assure you that I'm in no postion of any consequence from the TSSAA or from MBA for that matter. I'm just a former student who had a great experience at MBA and who still loves the school and its mission. I think I'm a better person for having gone there and it had a tremendous impact on my development as a person. I'm not an important person in terms of the grand scheme of MBA though. That being said, MBA is bigger than any one person, be it a student, a teacher, a coach, a headmaster, a board member, a parent, or an alumni. It's a community that has an oustanding legacy and history of educating young men who are gentlemen, scholars, and athletes, and it's a sad day when this situation or any situation fractures the bond of that community,especially in such a public way. Over its nearly 150 year history, MBA has perservered through adversity before, and I'm sure that it will do so now.

 

At this point, I don't think I can bring anything more of substance to this discussion, and until the case is settled, I feel like the discussion is more likely to perpetuate speculation and finger-pointing than worthwhile dialogue, so I think I will quietly let this thing play itself out. Regardless of this situation and anything that comes of it, I'm really looking forward to attending Alumni Days in a few weeks, and watching some Big Red lacrosse games and football games soon and for years to come.

 

Go Big Red!

[Sophocles]

The TSSAA can't and won't do anything. The discipline punishments can only come from the headmaster and if you know the bureaucracy at MBA nowadays then you know that won't happen with any severity. MBA is trying to play Ensworth's game. MBA isn't Ensworth and shouldn't try to be. MBA is a place of values and morals, not a rich kid hangout like Ensworth that preaches that it is MBA's equal (statistics don't lie, Ensworth). MBA should try to maintain the status quo and let Ensworth fall, which it will.

 

 

 

 

Graduate of MBA

[yoadrian]

I That being said, MBA is bigger than any one person, be it a student, a teacher, a coach, a headmaster, a board member, a parent, or an alumni. It's a community that has an oustanding legacy and history of educating young men who are gentlemen, scholars, and athletes, and it's a sad day when this situation or any situation fractures the bond of that community,especially in such a public way. Over its nearly 150 year history, MBA has perservered through adversity before, and I'm sure that it will do so now.

 

Go Big Red!

 

Understood, but the board has to know all of this is out there, I mean it was on the 5 0'clock news. Do something! Fire the coach, fire the coach and AD, fire the coach and AD and headmaster....or come out and say you support them and they are staying. But don't let this continue to drag on. How big is their board? Meet, make the call, and move on.

[hdcastle]

The TSSAA can't and won't do anything. The discipline punishments can only come from the headmaster and if you know the bureaucracy at MBA nowadays then you know that won't happen with any severity. MBA is trying to play Ensworth's game. MBA isn't Ensworth and shouldn't try to be. MBA is a place of values and morals, not a rich kid hangout like Ensworth that preaches that it is MBA's equal (statistics don't lie, Ensworth). MBA should try to maintain the status quo and let Ensworth fall, which it will.

 

 

 

 

Graduate of MBA

 

MBA may have cheated.

 

Blame Ensworth.

[RedRobin]

The TSSAA can't and won't do anything. The discipline punishments can only come from the headmaster and if you know the bureaucracy at MBA nowadays then you know that won't happen with any severity. MBA is trying to play Ensworth's game. MBA isn't Ensworth and shouldn't try to be. MBA is a place of values and morals, not a rich kid hangout like Ensworth that preaches that it is MBA's equal (statistics don't lie, Ensworth). MBA should try to maintain the status quo and let Ensworth fall, which it will.

 

 

 

 

Graduate of MBA

 

 

You sir, are quite the gentleman. I imagine you are a scholar and athlete as well. It was attitudes like yours that fostered the environment in which Ensworth was created, and it is attitudes like yours which drive people away from your beloved alma mater.

Edited April 15, 2011 by RedRobin

[Fonz]

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20110415/SPORTS07/104150305/MBA-reports-football-program-possible-rules-violation?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE