TSSAA visits Signal Mtn

[reaction]

1. hasn't greeneville played up a classification for years? if so, why don't they do what they are supposed to do?

2. greeneville gets to play with kids that are out side their zone...

3.open enrollment is the biggest and shadiest loophole there is.

4. congrats on beating alcoa this year, after they lost a number of their studs for the year.

World Class post.

[lastinning]

All this brings to question what % of the boys from Signal are actually from Signal? I understand the hardship rules bringing kids up the mountain to go there. Nothing would have ever been said if they were an unsuccessful team.

 

I agree with the T$$AA ruling, however there should now be some consistency with how they police all change of addresses in all sports.

[PurpleGrad]

bard, the really sad and disturbing thing is there really isn't more to it. Tim moved from GA to TN and his addresses are listed on the link of the letter you posted earlier. Tim's mother applied for and was granted a hardship to attend SM. Tim enrolled at the school he was granted permission to attend. The school filled out all on-line paperwork and submitted to the TSSAA. Apparently there is a box that asks if the student lives in the zone and that box was checked yes. (important note, the school administration fills out all of the paperwork not coaches.) The school administrator thought since Hamilton County approved him to be there he was considered in-zone.

 

Bottom line is SM didn't have anything to do with the approval of Tim's hardship. Hamilton County decided what school Tim could attend. If the hardship were denied he would have been going to a different school. I don't think there was ever a single person and that includes administrator, coach or CoachT poster from SM that tried to say Tim lived on SM. Tim doesn't deserve this and neither do the other kids.

 

 

Now Brenard Childress as quoted by Steven Hargis said "this isn't a NCLB issue. They checked the box that said he lived in the zone and he didn't."

 

Here's a question I have and haven't been able to get an answer for. Is there a box for out of zone on the paperwork and if so what does that mean? Is there more paperwork or an explanation that goes along with the filing? Or does it allow you to keep going? I would assume Greeneville and Alcoa can answer this since they have open enrollment and have many kids outside their territory. Also would TSSAA have said no to participation (IMO heck no they wouldn't have) especially since he moved from one state to another and had a verified change of address?

 

Is it semantics? It sure looks like it to me.

 

If you click "no" to any of the questions in the online eligibility submission, eligibility will be denied. If a school has a student/athlete that doesn't meet all the criteria (all "yes" answers)of the online submission form, that school has to apply to the TSSAA for a Hardship, which is separate from the hardship request that was submitted to HCDE. From there, the TSSAA would review the hardship request and give the school a determination of eligibility.

 

In all of the forms that I have submitted to the TSSAA each one required the principal's signature. Most principals delegate that authority to their athletic directors, which I assume is accepted by the TSSAA. But the burden of responsibility between the School and the TSSAA lies with the top administration of the school. With that said, it is the responsibility of the principal or AD to ensure that what they are signing is, in fact correct. In this case, I believe that the form was submitted by someone who either 1.) wasn't aware of the rule and how it applies, 2.) knew about the rule and chose to ignore it, or 3.) was intentionally misled to believe that everything was OK... In any case, if I were a parent at SM I would want to know who within the school dropped the ball. Stop blaming the TSSAA and find out who is really at fault and fix that problem, either through additional training or outright replacement.

Edited October 8, 2011 by PurpleGrad

[barb]

bard, the really sad and disturbing thing is there really isn't more to it. Tim moved from GA to TN and his addresses are listed on the link of the letter you posted earlier. Tim's mother applied for and was granted a hardship to attend SM. Tim enrolled at the school he was granted permission to attend. The school filled out all on-line paperwork and submitted to the TSSAA. Apparently there is a box that asks if the student lives in the zone and that box was checked yes. (important note, the school administration fills out all of the paperwork not coaches.) The school administrator thought since Hamilton County approved him to be there he was considered in-zone.

 

Bottom line is SM didn't have anything to do with the approval of Tim's hardship. Hamilton County decided what school Tim could attend. If the hardship were denied he would have been going to a different school. I don't think there was ever a single person and that includes administrator, coach or CoachT poster from SM that tried to say Tim lived on SM. Tim doesn't deserve this and neither do the other kids.

 

 

Now Brenard Childress as quoted by Steven Hargis said "this isn't a NCLB issue. They checked the box that said he lived in the zone and he didn't."

 

Here's a question I have and haven't been able to get an answer for. Is there a box for out of zone on the paperwork and if so what does that mean? Is there more paperwork or an explanation that goes along with the filing? Or does it allow you to keep going? I would assume Greeneville and Alcoa can answer this since they have open enrollment and have many kids outside their territory. Also would TSSAA have said no to participation (IMO heck no they wouldn't have) especially since he moved from one state to another and had a verified change of address?

 

Is it semantics? It sure looks like it to me.

All questions on the eligibility form are yes/no without room for explanation. If the SM admin had not misinterpreted the zoning issue and properly answered all the questions, they could have attached a Hardship application form. Greeneville has a different approach because of it's open enrollment policy. Unless a student has participated in T$$AA sanctioned sports within 1 year of enrollment, no action is required. If so then the student must sit out of varsity sports for a period of 1 year from the date of last participation unless there is a bonafide change of address into the Greeneville High zone. The administration as GCS takes its enrollment policy very seriously as it does its compliance with T$$AA. You find very few county students transferring to Greeneville after they have begun varsity sports as they have to sit out a year. Most ooz players from the county begin high school as freshmen at GHS and many begin in elementary and middle school.

There have been numerous occasions where city students have transferred to county schools as well(yes they are allowed to do that also)and had to sit the prescribed time before participating in sports.

[smeagle1]

If you click "no" to any of the questions in the online eligibility submission, eligibility will be denied. If a school has a student/athlete that doesn't meet all the criteria (all "yes" answers)of the online submission form, that school has to apply to the TSSAA for a Hardship, which is separate from the hardship request that was submitted to HCDE. From there, the TSSAA would review the hardship request and give the school a determination of eligibility.

 

 

PurpleGrad, thanks for the response. I have another question and you seem to knowledgeable about the form. What exactly does it ask. Does it ask if student lives in the zone yes/no or is there more to it?

[smeagle1]

All questions on the eligibility form are yes/no without room for explanation. If the SM admin had not misinterpreted the zoning issue and properly answered all the questions, they could have attached a Hardship application form. Greeneville has a different approach because of it's open enrollment policy. Unless a student has participated in T$$AA sanctioned sports within 1 year of enrollment, no action is required. If so then the student must sit out of varsity sports for a period of 1 year from the date of last participation unless there is a bonafide change of address into the Greeneville High zone. The administration as GCS takes its enrollment policy very seriously as it does its compliance with T$$AA. You find very few county students transferring to Greeneville after they have begun varsity sports as they have to sit out a year. Most ooz players from the county begin high school as freshmen at GHS and many begin in elementary and middle school.

There have been numerous occasions where city students have transferred to county schools as well(yes they are allowed to do that also)and had to sit the prescribed time before participating in sports.

 

So let me see if I get this straight. Greeneville is a city school that has an open enrollment policy and allows anyone else to attend? or is it just anyone else in the county? Then there is Greeneville County schools who also have the open enrollment and allow kids to attend any school they want as long as they live in the county.

[PurpleGrad]

PurpleGrad, thanks for the response. I have another question and you seem to knowledgeable about the form. What exactly does it ask. Does it ask if student lives in the zone yes/no or is there more to it?

I can't remember verbatim all of the questions that they ask in the online form. You can view the hardcopy form at TSSAA.org/forms. The online version doesn't have as many questions and as much info to submit as the paper form does. It asks questions like 1) What year did the student enroll in 9th grade. 2) Do they have an athletic record in the previous 12 months. 3)Have they been enrolled in your school for 12 months? 4) Do they live with their parents or legal guardians?

 

There are some other questions but honestly I can't remember them. My sport isn't in season so I can't call up the online eligibility form. Maybe some of these football/volleyball/golf coaches or athletic directors on here can provide that info since their sport is still in season and they can log on and view the online forms.

 

Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

[CHAMPDDS]

I am going to press this question again...It was mentioned that the player's parent/s requested a hardship waiver....Just how easy is it to be granted one of these...And how common are they? Was going to Ooltewah (assuming Brainerd zoned-NCLB link to Ooltewah)such a problem, and if SM wasn't such a strong football program, would it still have been chosen....?

 

D

[ChattanoogaCannon]

"Whoever at Signal Mountain filled out the online transfer form made a mistake,†Childress said. “All of our eligibility forms are submitted by the administration of our schools. In this case whoever filled it out clicked ‘yes’ that the student-athlete’s new residence is inside Signal Mountain’s zone. It’s not. Once we checked to see exactly where his house is, we realized he’s in Brainerd’s zone, not Signal Mountain’s, and declared him ineligible immediately.“He had originally been ruled eligible, but the original information we had received was incorrect, so we had to come back and change the status.â€

 

--source timesfreepress.com

 

Mystery solved

 

 

Sounds very cut and dry. I fail to see how this is semantical. Also notice how Childress says "we" not "they". At least he is taking responsibility.

 

 

 

[smeagle1]

I can't remember verbatim all of the questions that they ask in the online form. You can view the hardcopy form at TSSAA.org/forms. The online version doesn't have as many questions and as much info to submit as the paper form does. It asks questions like 1) What year did the student enroll in 9th grade. 2) Do they have an athletic record in the previous 12 months. 3)Have they been enrolled in your school for 12 months? 4) Do they live with their parents or legal guardians?

 

There are some other questions but honestly I can't remember them. My sport isn't in season so I can't call up the online eligibility form. Maybe some of these football/volleyball/golf coaches or athletic directors on here can provide that info since their sport is still in season and they can log on and view the online forms.

 

Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

 

Thanks for the information. I'm just trying to understand things a little more clearly.

 

Oh, I had looked on-line and unfortunately the one form I wanted to see isn't available. Go Figure... Form TRN-01 - Registration of Eligibility - Senior High Transfer Form

[ChattanoogaCannon]

I am going to press this question again...It was mentioned that the player's parent/s requested a hardship waiver....Just how easy is it to be granted one of these...And how common are they? Was going to Ooltewah (assuming Brainerd zoned-NCLB link to Ooltewah)such a problem, and if SM wasn't such a strong football program, would it still have been chosen....?

 

D

 

 

They are relatively easy to obtain. The "mistake" made in this case is they did not apply separately to the TSSAA since the player was zoned for Brainerd. It is how a Hixson zoned soccer could play for Soddy-Daisy, for example. The hardship waiver is not relevant to this.

[PurpleGrad]

So let me see if I get this straight. Greeneville is a city school that has an open enrollment policy and allows anyone else to attend? or is it just anyone else in the county? Then there is Greeneville County schools who also have the open enrollment and allow kids to attend any school they want as long as they live in the county.

I'm not sure how Greenville works but our county has an open enrollment policy. Each of our schools have a zone that is supported by established bus routes. Students from anywhere in the county can attend a school outside of their zone so long as the parents provide transportation. For two weeks prior to the start of school, our county offers an open enrollment period. All students seeking transfer, must receive permission from the Central Office.

 

However, this policy does nothing to circumvent the transfer rule of the TSSAA. Just because a student/athlete gains permission from our school board to transfer doesn't mean that they are guaranteed elegibility at the new school. In order to be eligible, all transfer rules, including bonafide change of address and physically moving into the zone of the new school, must be met. Open enrollment, as it applies in our county, doesn't give schools any advantage over systems that don't have open enrollment.

Edited October 8, 2011 by PurpleGrad