TSSAA visits Signal Mtn

[takedown3]

I am lifelong SM resident (just shy of 60 years) and a fan of the school. I have nephews and nieces who attend. There have been a number of legendary coaches from this area: Red Etter (Central and Baylor), Pete Potter (Brainerd and McCallie), Ralph Potter (Baylor, McCallie and now Brentwood Academy), Tom Weathers (Red Bank), Bennie Monroe (Cleveland and Ooltewah), and more. Some of these men have already been enshrined in various sports (and in one case, academic) halls of fame. I don't recall any of these gentlemen having as many negative off field instances in their careers as Bill Price has had in a relatively short career. In Price's defense you might rationalize the stories as jealousy or an overly sensationalistic media but I think our school has a coach problem.

 

The head coaching job at SM will attract the best coaching talent, many of whom combine that attribute with a strong moral compass.

Edited October 8, 2011 by takedown3

[PurpleGrad]

Thanks for the information. I'm just trying to understand things a little more clearly.

 

Oh, I had looked on-line and unfortunately the one form I wanted to see isn't available. Go Figure... Form TRN-01 - Registration of Eligibility - Senior High Transfer Form

The Senior High Transfer form wouldn't be vastly different from the Middle School Transfer form. Many of the questions are the same just the words "high" and "middle" are different from form to form.

[ChattanoogaCannon]

They are relatively easy to obtain. The "mistake" made in this case is they did not apply separately to the TSSAA since the player was zoned for Brainerd. It is how a Hixson zoned soccer could play for Soddy-Daisy, for example. The hardship waiver is not relevant to this.

 

I just read this quote from SIgnal admin:

 

"We misinterpreted a territorial issue, according to them. We believed the hardship he received from the county put in him our territory and didn't think twice about it until they came in on Thursday.McCullough was willing to share if not shoulder the blame.

 

"We have to do a better job of making sure the rules are interpreted properly, and ultimately that responsibility falls to the principal," he said. "I was aware of the transfer and how we interpreted the rule."

 

So, the mistake was that they thought the hardship waiver acceptance made the player eligible to play. I am not going to judge if it was an honest mistake or not, but you woould think the administration would know the rules.

 

 

 

[smeagle1]

I am going to press this question again...It was mentioned that the player's parent/s requested a hardship waiver....Just how easy is it to be granted one of these...And how common are they? Was going to Ooltewah (assuming Brainerd zoned-NCLB link to Ooltewah)such a problem, and if SM wasn't such a strong football program, would it still have been chosen....?

 

D

 

I have been told by a reliable source that Hamilton County approved over 1,000 hardships last year. So it is a common practice. I have no idea what guidelines they use but I would assume some are related to NCLB, in the fact that the student doesn't want to go to the paired school and applies to go to a different one. I know for a fact that a student at a failing school can go to any passing school. I would assume Hamilton County is doing this through hardships.

 

I must also say that I don't think and neither does my source that the NCLB kids that are going to their paired school are included in the hardship numbers.

 

 

Also last time I checked Ooltewah has a pretty darn good football program.

[Yeehaw]

Promised myself I would stay away from this.... didn't work. Howeva, I am not piling on.

 

Ban the coach from TSSAA - always work in GA, fire the AD, fire the principal, fine the booster club - whatever you want...

Don't take it out on the kids - especially #3. It wasn't THEIR fault, it was the failure of the administration and a coach who should know better. The kids should keep their wins and play without their coach and let #3 finish the season. The adults screwed up, didn't do their due diligence, and now their kids pay for it. I don't like it, I don't like it at all.

If there were set in stone punishments for violating TSSAA rules, stuff like this wouldn't happen.

IMHO

I don't have a dog in this hunt - I apologize in advance if I step on any toes.

 

Dennis

 

GO CATS!

[MountainTroll]

I can't remember verbatim all of the questions that they ask in the online form. You can view the hardcopy form at TSSAA.org/forms. The online version doesn't have as many questions and as much info to submit as the paper form does. It asks questions like 1) What year did the student enroll in 9th grade. 2) Do they have an athletic record in the previous 12 months. 3)Have they been enrolled in your school for 12 months? 4) Do they live with their parents or legal guardians?

 

There are some other questions but honestly I can't remember them. My sport isn't in season so I can't call up the online eligibility form. Maybe some of these football/volleyball/golf coaches or athletic directors on here can provide that info since their sport is still in season and they can log on and view the online forms.

 

Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

 

The "Senior High Transfer" form is one of the few not available on the website.

 

If the question was, "Is the new address in your school's zone?" That's clearcut, and if somebody at Signal checked yes, they should have known better.

If the question was, "Is the new address in your school's territory?" I can understand how there could have been confusion. If you read my other posts, you will see that there is definition of "territory" on page 6 of the by-laws.

Territory

– For a public school, the “territory†of the school is the geographic boundaries and bus routes of the area served by that school

as established by the local board of education

. For a system-wide public school, the “territory†of the school is the geographic boundaries of the school system. For a non-public school, the “territory†of the school is the area within a twenty (20) mile radius from the school.

 

It is obvious that administrators and coaches who fill out these forms should understand the question.

 

Trying to be objective, I can understand how somebody would look at that question and think, "He has been approved to enroll at Signal by our local board of education, so yes he lives in the territory of Signal."

I don't know if that's how it went down, but from informal chatter, that is what I hear. That is why I used the term semantic disagreement.

 

 

 

[smeagle1]

I'm not sure how Greenville works but our county has an open enrollment policy. Each of our schools have a zone that is supported by established bus routes. Students from anywhere in the county can attend a school outside of their zone so long as the parents provide transportation. For two weeks prior to the start of school, our county offers an open enrollment period. All students seeking transfer, must receive permission from the Central Office.

 

However, this policy does nothing to circumvent the transfer rule of the TSSAA. Just because a student/athlete gains permission from our school board to transfer doesn't mean that they are guaranteed elegibility at the new school. In order to be eligible, all transfer rules, including bonafide change of address and physically moving into the zone of the new school, must be met. Open enrollment, as it applies in our county, doesn't give schools any advantage over systems that don't have open enrollment.

 

You lost me on this post. You first said your county has open enrollment, but then went on to say "In order to be eligible, all transfer rules, including bonafide change of address and physically moving into the zone of the new school, must be met.". I'm assuming from your first paragraph that a student doesn't have to move they can change schools if they so desire. But if they do change the eligibility rules such as sitting out if no change of address would have to be met. Am I correct? Also do these transfers all get submitted as hardships or because your county has open enrollment are these treated as regular transfers?

[MountainTroll]

"Whoever at Signal Mountain filled out the online transfer form made a mistake,†Childress said. “All of our eligibility forms are submitted by the administration of our schools. In this case whoever filled it out clicked ‘yes’ that the student-athlete’s new residence is inside Signal Mountain’s zone. It’s not. Once we checked to see exactly where his house is, we realized he’s in Brainerd’s zone, not Signal Mountain’s, and declared him ineligible immediately.“He had originally been ruled eligible, but the original information we had received was incorrect, so we had to come back and change the status.â€

 

--source timesfreepress.com

 

Mystery solved

 

 

Sounds very cut and dry. I fail to see how this is semantical. Also notice how Childress says "we" not "they". At least he is taking responsibility.

 

 

 

 

If the form says zone, you are correct, it is "very cut and dry".

If the form says territory, then even Mr. Childress doesn't understand the T$$AA forms and bylaws, and it is semantic.

[PurpleGrad]

I just read this quote from SIgnal admin:

 

"We misinterpreted a territorial issue, according to them. We believed the hardship he received from the county put in him our territory and didn't think twice about it until they came in on Thursday.McCullough was willing to share if not shoulder the blame.

 

"We have to do a better job of making sure the rules are interpreted properly, and ultimately that responsibility falls to the principal," he said. "I was aware of the transfer and how we interpreted the rule."

 

So, the mistake was that they thought the hardship waiver acceptance made the player eligible to play. I am not going to judge if it was an honest mistake or not, but you woould think the administration would know the rules.

Kudos to McCullough for taking the blame on this one. Takes a strong person to stand up and admit they are wrong when the result is this devastating. Whether McCullough was wrong out of ignorance concerning the rule or out of willfull deceit now would be the question for the parents of SM to find out. Being wrong from ignorance concerning the rule is excusable and very fixable by re-educating themselves with the TSSAA Handbook. Being wrong from willfull deceit is unforgivable but also easily fixable with a pink slip. Good luck to the SM family as you learn, grow and move on from this experience.

[MountainTroll]

Promised myself I would stay away from this.... didn't work. Howeva, I am not piling on.

 

Ban the coach from TSSAA - always work in GA, fire the AD, fire the principal, fine the booster club - whatever you want...

Don't take it out on the kids - especially #3. It wasn't THEIR fault, it was the failure of the administration and a coach who should know better. The kids should keep their wins and play without their coach and let #3 finish the season. The adults screwed up, didn't do their due diligence, and now their kids pay for it. I don't like it, I don't like it at all.

If there were set in stone punishments for violating TSSAA rules, stuff like this wouldn't happen.

IMHO

I don't have a dog in this hunt - I apologize in advance if I step on any toes.

 

Dennis

 

GO CATS!

 

Didn't step on any toes at all, and I agree with you. Guess that means the world really is ending in 2012.

[smeagle1]

Promised myself I would stay away from this.... didn't work. Howeva, I am not piling on.

 

Ban the coach from TSSAA - always work in GA, fire the AD, fire the principal, fine the booster club - whatever you want...

Don't take it out on the kids - especially #3. It wasn't THEIR fault, it was the failure of the administration and a coach who should know better. The kids should keep their wins and play without their coach and let #3 finish the season. The adults screwed up, didn't do their due diligence, and now their kids pay for it. I don't like it, I don't like it at all.

If there were set in stone punishments for violating TSSAA rules, stuff like this wouldn't happen.

IMHO

I don't have a dog in this hunt - I apologize in advance if I step on any toes.

 

Dennis

 

GO CATS!

 

Yeehaw, sorry I like that better. The coach doesn't submit the paperwork it is the AD. The AD lets the coach know when a player is eligible, at least that's how it currently works at SM. In this case it really isn't the coaches fault either. He didn't ever try to hide the fact that the player didn't live on SM.

[smeagle1]

If the form says zone, you are correct, it is "very cut and dry".

If the form says territory, then even Mr. Childress doesn't understand the T$$AA forms and bylaws, and it is semantic.

 

The Junior High form says territory, and PurpleGrad says they are virtually the same except for the form title.