One Division For State?

[Old Warhorse]

Absolutely agree!

 

Heard from a very reliable source that there may be a "small school" individual state championship added next year. Anyone else hearing this?

 

 

If increasing the number of kids participating in wrestling, I can see where going to a "small school" individual state championship would be a big plus. The arguement is always going to come from the hardliners and purest that the state championship will have a diminished status. How many kids never get an opportunity to participate in wrestling at all. Wrestling is such a great sport that needs to be expanded statewide.

[silverpie]

I agree I dont know what all the complaining is about. Big deal we have 2 champions, other states Mich, Ohio, Penn have up to 5-6 champions per weight class. It does not water anything down it is still very competetive. If Tenn wants to be a big boy in wrestling they need to start early (which a lot of wrestlers and club teams are doing) and more middle school and high school coaches (especailly football) need to push their athletes into wrestling.

 

Actually, Michigan has four, Ohio (like Iowa) three, and Pennsylvania two. The two main single-tournament states are New Jersey (which has six classes for duals) and California (whose duals series stops at section level).

[russianbear]

If increasing the number of kids participating in wrestling, I can see where going to a "small school" individual state championship would be a big plus. The arguement is always going to come from the hardliners and purest that the state championship will have a diminished status. How many kids never get an opportunity to participate in wrestling at all. Wrestling is such a great sport that needs to be expanded statewide.

 

I'm absolutely 100% all for increasing participation. HOWEVER there is absolutely no logical reason why dividing our state tournament into multiple divisions will increase participation. Nor is there ANY precidented statistical proof that dividing our state into multiple divisions will increase participation. If you want kids to wrestle in highschool, then teach them how to wrestle before middleschool.

 

Do we really want a state tournament identical to the division 2 format? Who in their right mind would want such a thing? A twelve many bracket? Bye first round lose next round, win a wrestle back, lose again and get 6th in state? Is this the climax for the year? For the life of me, I really don't understand why anyone would want such a state tournament. And what about the region? Hixson, Central, East Ridge, Red Bank and Notre Dame in the same region. Who goes to state? Only the champ? How is that the least bit logical. THINK!!!!

 

The most important lesson wrestling teaches is "there is no substitute for hard work". Life is hard. If you want to open a restaurant, the reality is McDonalds and Wendys do exist. To be successful you must compete with them. There is no easy way. No magic pill, no special priviledges. Hard work.

 

We have a good thing. What can be more exciting than a 32 man bracket? Nothing like it. Please, please, let us not screw it up.

[csemary]

Great points russianbear. You should write a letter to the TSSAA and make sure they understand this. I really think there is more of a push by some small schools in the regions outside of Chattanooga because they want this to happen for their own gain...let the Chattanooga small schools knock each other off in the region and then the non-Chattanooga teams would be in much better postition to win state. Just saying.

[russianbear]

Actually, Michigan has four, Ohio (like Iowa) three, and Pennsylvania two. The two main single-tournament states are New Jersey (which has six classes for duals) and California (whose duals series stops at section level).

Silverpie, perhaps I'm doing something wrong, but it won't let me access messages users send me. You can email mail me at ben.reichel@yahoo.com. If someone knows why I can't access my messages, please let me know.

[taketop]

I'm absolutely 100% all for increasing participation. HOWEVER there is absolutely no logical reason why dividing our state tournament into multiple divisions will increase participation. Nor is there ANY precidented statistical proof that dividing our state into multiple divisions will increase participation. If you want kids to wrestle in highschool, then teach them how to wrestle before middleschool.

 

Do we really want a state tournament identical to the division 2 format? Who in their right mind would want such a thing? A twelve many bracket? Bye first round lose next round, win a wrestle back, lose again and get 6th in state? Is this the climax for the year? For the life of me, I really don't understand why anyone would want such a state tournament. And what about the region? Hixson, Central, East Ridge, Red Bank and Notre Dame in the same region. Who goes to state? Only the champ? How is that the least bit logical. THINK!!!!

 

The most important lesson wrestling teaches is "there is no substitute for hard work". Life is hard. If you want to open a restaurant, the reality is McDonalds and Wendys do exist. To be successful you must compete with them. There is no easy way. No magic pill, no special priviledges. Hard work.

 

We have a good thing. What can be more exciting than a 32 man bracket? Nothing like it. Please, please, let us not screw it up.

I am amazed how you think your opinion is the only thing logical. Look at the participation stats in Georgia and North Carolina. If you want exciting then go to Fargo. What could be more exciting than a 32 man bracket? Well if I was using your logic I would say a 33 man bracket. I doubt any of the kids who were champs or medalist since the DI DII split would give their medals back to appease some sort of external elitism from old guys. Perhaps your arguments would be better if you THOUGHT (the all caps was sarcasm) instead of rant.

[russianbear]

I am amazed how you think your opinion is the only thing logical. Look at the participation stats in Georgia and North Carolina. If you want exciting then go to Fargo. What could be more exciting than a 32 man bracket? Well if I was using your logic I would say a 33 man bracket. I doubt any of the kids who were champs or medalist since the DI DII split would give their medals back to appease some sort of external elitism from old guys. Perhaps your arguments would be better if you THOUGHT (the all caps was sarcasm) instead of rant.

Taketop - I'm somewhat confused how you took my post as a rant. I'm not here to argue and I'm not here to bicker. I'm simply giving my opinion. You sound confrontational.

 

First off, have you looked at the overall population increases in Georgia and North Carlolina? Why don't you compare that to the poplutaion increase in Tennessee? I believe you will find your answer as to why Georgia and North Carolina have had an increase in participation.

 

Second, I think you've missed my point. What we have proposed is a dramatic change to our state tournament, that, in most people's opinion, already works. The change is proposed SOLELY on an irresponsible, unsubstantiated, erronoeous claim that splitting divisions will increase participation. And anyone that argues against it is immediately labeled "old school", or "not for increasing participation" or against giving kids an opportunity to medal. I'm all for kids medaling. In fact at the coaches meeting it was proposed for kids to medal for 7th and 8th place. I voted yes, as did most other coaches.

 

 

Finally, the biggest complaint about our state tournament is the 16 man bracket (most of which have several byes) that d2 has been forced into for their state tournament. Now a handfull of small school coaches want a 12 man bracket? And on top of that, it will force the big schools into a 24 man bracket none of whom want such a thing.

[werazzlin]

I too was at the state tournament. There were several things that were voted on at the coaches meeting on Saturday. I believe it was noted by several in attendance that the large school d-1 was to keep 32 man brackets. The small school to go to 12. I think the bracket should be 16. If the small schools are divided into 8 regions just like large schools are then they should get top two from each region make the state. Now with this format we are actually increasing the number of participants at the state. If everyone wants to grow the sport we need more participation. Having a small school division of 16 man brackets (top 2 from each region) and leaving the big school state at 32 we actually grow the state participation. We can actually add 16 more kids at each weight class in small school state. The whole state grows will benefit from greater participation. sure it waters down the state qualifier role.. But the goal is state champ not state qualifier!!! Greater numbers and opportunies to achieve that!!! I am for growth!!! This is actually growing the sport. Maybe another thing only medal top 4 in d-2 and small school but increase participation. Medal top 8 in 32 man brackets..

[YOUTHCOACH16]

I am amazed how you think your opinion is the only thing logical. Look at the participation stats in Georgia and North Carolina. If you want exciting then go to Fargo. What could be more exciting than a 32 man bracket? Well if I was using your logic I would say a 33 man bracket. I doubt any of the kids who were champs or medalist since the DI DII split would give their medals back to appease some sort of external elitism from old guys. Perhaps your arguments would be better if you THOUGHT (the all caps was sarcasm) instead of rant.

 

How is Russianbears opionion less valid than yours? He brings up good points as opposed to just thinking adding divisions will magically make wrestlers appear out of thin air. Do you honestly think the difference of over 6 million people in Georgia and North Carolina doesnt have an impact with their larger participation numbers? Its simple math. If you have 6 million more people you are going to have more schools, more wrestlers, and more coaches. Also their population is more centrally located as opposed to Tennessees being spread out over 600 miles. Another glaring problem we have is the shortage of dedicated , passionate wrestling coaches. How many teams in Tennessee are really competetive? How many coaches are willing to put in the time it takes to build a strong program from the ground up? Counting public and private schools I would say its safe to say there arent more than 30 schools in Tennessee that are somewhat serious about wrestling. As evidenced by the huge gap in success from the top 10 teams or so this fact is pretty clear. I think everyone is all for growing this sport and making it stronger but more research needs to be done before we think simply adding more divisions will make schools take on a new sport. There are other options such as adding more divisions in the duals. We could also have one individual tournament all together but keep seperate team points for the different divisions. Tennessee simply does not have a competetive enough field to warrant multiple divisions in the individual state tournament. This isnt an elitist or old school opionion. This is an opionion of someone who thinks the beauty of our sport is that it forces young men to grow up and work harder if they want to suceed. They learn in our sport that they can overcome difficulties. They learn that it doesnt matter how tall they are, how fast they are, how strong they are they can improve and accomplish great things with something called work and dedication. Maybe I am wrong, maaybe that is an old school attitude. Heck lets just make 10 divisions so everybody feels good about themselves and mommy and daddy can say their kid is a state champ. Seems to be thats the way the rest of our society is so why not ruin one of the last pure things we have and just conform to the politaclly correct version so nobody gets their feelings hurt.

Edited February 24, 2012 by YOUTHCOACH16

[3bigd]

I second werazzlin's motion

This would increase participation, ticket sales and TSSAA's focus on our sport

Edited February 24, 2012 by 3bigd

[YOUTHCOACH16]

I too was at the state tournament. There were several things that were voted on at the coaches meeting on Saturday. I believe it was noted by several in attendance that the large school d-1 was to keep 32 man brackets. The small school to go to 12. I think the bracket should be 16. If the small schools are divided into 8 regions just like large schools are then they should get top two from each region make the state. Now with this format we are actually increasing the number of participants at the state. If everyone wants to grow the sport we need more participation. Having a small school division of 16 man brackets (top 2 from each region) and leaving the big school state at 32 we actually grow the state participation. We can actually add 16 more kids at each weight class in small school state. The whole state grows will benefit from greater participation. sure it waters down the state qualifier role.. But the goal is state champ not state qualifier!!! Greater numbers and opportunies to achieve that!!! I am for growth!!! This is actually growing the sport. Maybe another thing only medal top 4 in d-2 and small school but increase participation. Medal top 8 in 32 man brackets..

 

That does nothing to grow the sport. That allows more kids into the state tournament but it isnt making more overall wrestlers or teams.

[Sommers]

Solid observations from YOUTHCOACH16!

 

I categorically second the motion!

 

Tennessee Wrestling will greatly benefit from a similar California/NJ format of blending individual with separate team scores to keep the bought & paid for opponents happy, yet allow the innocent kids to feel complete TSSAA support & opportunity!