Opinion question concerning Private Schools in Tennessee

[BigDave67]

Yeah, good thing for that...hey, hold on a second

They started that because of ultra large High Schools in Metro-Atlanta. Some of those schools are 2,000+ students(Like Lassiter High School in Cobb County Georgia)

[AllRegion]

They started that because of ultra large High Schools in Metro-Atlanta. Some of those schools are 2,000+ students(Like Lassiter High School in Cobb County Georgia)

I was making a joke because Tennessee obviously does have 6 classes of football. Some may say that this is too many, but we also have plenty of schools with 2,000+ kids.

 

Riverdale High School (2028), Germantown High School (2038), Whitehaven High School (2076), LaVergne High School (2133), Jefferson Co. High School (2147), McGavock High School (2159), Cookeville High School (2163), Science Hill High School (2207), White Station High School (2263), Arlington High School (2315), Blackman High School (2381)

[GeorgeBailey]

At least Tennessee isn't like Georgia where there is a 6A division.

TN has 8 divisions; 6 DI and 2 DII (for post season football)

[chattacane]

The TSSAA Started in 1969. From 1969 to 1996 27 years private schools and public schools battled for the same gold balls in football. In those 27 years 92 state championships were won. 72 of those gold balls where taken home by public schools. That’s 66.2 %. (Source: High School Database Tennessee)

 

• Brentwood 9
• Webb 2
• Memphis Catholic 2
• DCA 2
• Baylor 1
• Father Ryan 1
• Christian Brothers 1
• ECS 1
• BGA 1

 

45% of the private titles went to Brentwood. Who got into a legal battle with TSSAA that lead to a split?

 

I do think there is an argument to put them back together. Granted there was no Ensworth. I agree private schools should be 5A or 6A due to the fact they can go get players call it recruiting or what ever. Open enrollment same thing 5A or 6A.

 

Folks say there is an advantage being a private school can get all the right kids. Don’t know about other cities, but in Chattanooga, Boyd Buc has what won 1 maybe 2, Notre Dame 0, Chattanooga Christian 0, Grace 0, Baylor 1 (in with public) McCallie1, (private only)

 

I vote for it to be all together, but my vote doesn’t count, and TSSAA is going to do what they want. But the 27 year history of playing together it was heavy public schools.

 

No, I am not a private school guy.

[baylorbigdog1976]

Good info thanks for posting ...

 

The TSSAA Started in 1969. From 1969 to 1996 27 years private schools and public schools battled for the same gold balls in football. In those 27 years 92 state championships were won. 72 of those gold balls where taken home by public schools. That’s 66.2 %. (Source: High School Database Tennessee)

 

• Brentwood 9
• Webb 2
• Memphis Catholic 2
• DCA 2
• Baylor 1
• Father Ryan 1
• Christian Brothers 1
• ECS 1
• BGA 1

45% of the private titles went to Brentwood. Who got into a legal battle with TSSAA that lead to a split?

 

I do think there is an argument to put them back together. Granted there was no Ensworth. I agree private schools should be 5A or 6A due to the fact they can go get players call it recruiting or what ever. Open enrollment same thing 5A or 6A.

 

Folks say there is an advantage being a private school can get all the right kids. Don’t know about other cities, but in Chattanooga, Boyd Buc has what won 1 maybe 2, Notre Dame 0, Chattanooga Christian 0, Grace 0, Baylor 1 (in with public) McCallie1, (private only)

 

I vote for it to be all together, but my vote doesn’t count, and TSSAA is going to do what they want. But the 27 year history of playing together it was heavy public schools.

 

No, I am not a private school guy.

[chattacane]

Good info thanks for posting ...

 

Could anything be better for Chattanooga area then this: 

5AAA:

 

1. McMinn

2. Walker Valley

3. Bradley

4. Cleveland

5. Ooltewah

6. East Hamilton

7. McCallie

8. Soddy

9. Baylor

 

That is a great district, little travel, huge crowds and the city gets a top flight district.

McCallie, Baylor can still pick up 2 games with in-sate privates, Like Brentwood, MBA, etc....... oh the dreams I have.......

[BigDave67]

Good info thanks for posting ...

 

 

 

I would like to see the private classification removed also and all the schools Public and Private in the same divisions.

Edited August 13, 2013 by BigDave67

[shakinthefat]

They play for different state championships so what's the problem. Power house DII schools will continue to go out of state to fill a 10 game schedule due to the TSSAA playoff requirements for public schools. This will continue to segregate public and private.

[AllRegion]

They play for different state championships so what's the problem. Power house DII schools will continue to go out of state to fill a 10 game schedule due to the TSSAA playoff requirements for public schools. This will continue to segregate public and private.

 

The TSSAA's playoff requirements for public schools are a major part of this problem. I'm all for public and private schools playing during the regular season.

[crow]

And that is exactly why TSSAA applies a multiplier of 1.7 to the D1 private. Given your numbers, TSSAA considers the enrollment at the private to be 680, which is pretty much in line with your thoughts. Let's not forget that the parents of every one of those kids at the private is paying thousands of dollars in tuition (in addition to the taxes they pay to support the public schools in their county). Meanwhile, the open-zoned public which they are both competing against gets to enroll as many football players as it can for a couple of hundred dollars of tuition, with the county and state picking up the rest of the tab. Yet TSSAA applies no multiplier to these schools.

 

I just do not understand why everyone complains about "recruiting" whenever a CAK wins big, but no one seems to understand the huge advantage realized by Beech, Alcoa, Maryville or every one of the other open-zoned publics. Why is no multiplier called for in these circumstances, and why aren't you complaining about that?

Grace Christian, Boyd, and Goodpasture have enrollments after the multiplier that gives them more "students" than the 15-25 biggest schools in AAA (playoff) but due to the "1 classification" rule they are all still in AA after the realignment. The multiplier is a good idea but the T$$AA makes it invalid with the ridiculous rule about moving up more than 1 classification. Sure you shouldn't have to go up multiple classifications in a single season but if you are in A or AA and enrollment puts you in AAA or AAAA then you should move up over a period of time.

 

Also the rule doesn't really apply even though it is used as a reason not to move schools up in classification. The T$$AA ruling stated the 3 listed (and others as well I'm sure) stated they could not move up to AAA (playoff) because they are currently A so more than 1 classification move. It also stated that it would move them up in other sports to AA (AA out of AAA classification system). This doesn't make sense to me because in regular season football (and all other sports) the schools are A now and enrollment puts them in AA. The only time AAA is applicable is in football playoffs. Again the single classification rule is irrelevant because they are AA playoff teams now and the enrollment would put them in AAA playoffs. Again, a single classification jump. I know the rule states the enrollment classification before and after the application of the multiplier cannot be more than 1 classification. That's the part that makes no sense to me. If that's the kind of rule you attach to your multiplier rule then why have a multiplier to begin with?

 

As for the "advantage" question about the difference in private vs open enrollment is the issue of value of a product. An open enrollment school takes any student that comes to them where privates have the ability to selectively admit or deny at their discretion. Also the open enrollment school may or may not have an out of zone fee. If not then there is no "value" associated with the "service" where as a private school admission has substantial value with $8 to $10 K per year being very common. Sure if they play division 1 then they are not supposed to receive financial assistance, we all know no one would ever do that now would they? I don't dislike private schools by any means. I just believe that there will always be some programs that will elect to play in division 1 and recruit and give financial benefits to select student-athletes willing to come to their school as a way to gain an advantage. I do not think all private schools do this, but I know all do have the opportunity. My issue is not with private schools, it is with the T$$AA's unwillingness to implement a system that actually makes sense. Sorry for the loong ramble.

[Wired4Football]

Grace Christian, Boyd, and Goodpasture have enrollments after the multiplier that gives them more "students" than the 15-25 biggest schools in AAA (playoff) but due to the "1 classification" rule they are all still in AA after the realignment. The multiplier is a good idea but the T$$AA makes it invalid with the ridiculous rule about moving up more than 1 classification. Sure you shouldn't have to go up multiple classifications in a single season but if you are in A or AA and enrollment puts you in AAA or AAAA then you should move up over a period of time.

 

Also the rule doesn't really apply even though it is used as a reason not to move schools up in classification. The T$$AA ruling stated the 3 listed (and others as well I'm sure) stated they could not move up to AAA (playoff) because they are currently A so more than 1 classification move. It also stated that it would move them up in other sports to AA (AA out of AAA classification system). This doesn't make sense to me because in regular season football (and all other sports) the schools are A now and enrollment puts them in AA. The only time AAA is applicable is in football playoffs. Again the single classification rule is irrelevant because they are AA playoff teams now and the enrollment would put them in AAA playoffs. Again, a single classification jump. I know the rule states the enrollment classification before and after the application of the multiplier cannot be more than 1 classification. That's the part that makes no sense to me. If that's the kind of rule you attach to your multiplier rule then why have a multiplier to begin with?

 

As for the "advantage" question about the difference in private vs open enrollment is the issue of value of a product. An open enrollment school takes any student that comes to them where privates have the ability to selectively admit or deny at their discretion. Also the open enrollment school may or may not have an out of zone fee. If not then there is no "value" associated with the "service" where as a private school admission has substantial value with $8 to $10 K per year being very common. Sure if they play division 1 then they are not supposed to receive financial assistance, we all know no one would ever do that now would they? I don't dislike private schools by any means. I just believe that there will always be some programs that will elect to play in division 1 and recruit and give financial benefits to select student-athletes willing to come to their school as a way to gain an advantage. I do not think all private schools do this, but I know all do have the opportunity. My issue is not with private schools, it is with the T$$AA's unwillingness to implement a system that actually makes sense. Sorry for the loong ramble.

Goodpasture was just moved down to 2A in Football this year. After the multiplier they are barely over 600+ kids in high school. They are 1A in every other sport. Just know that not all privates offer financial assistance. Ensworth is $23k a year, whereas Grace, Goodpasture are like $6500. Many people make sacrifices to put their kids in better atmospheres depending upon their region or market. A great example would be Memphis and parts of Nashville. 

It doesn't matter to me if private gets forced to play private or public. I pay taxes for public schools and i choose to pay tuition. An you are right, NOT all schools "recruit" as all of you anti privates say, but we can't help it if you don't live in Blount County or Sumner county with open enrollment. Really, no difference in those counties. 1.7 multiplier is almost 2x the enrollment and that is still not good enough. Keep in mind it's not all about football, it's the entire program.

[crow]

Goodpasture was just moved down to 2A in Football this year. After the multiplier they are barely over 600+ kids in high school. They are 1A in every other sport. Just know that not all privates offer financial assistance. Ensworth is $23k a year, whereas Grace, Goodpasture are like $6500. Many people make sacrifices to put their kids in better atmospheres depending upon their region or market. A great example would be Memphis and parts of Nashville. 

It doesn't matter to me if private gets forced to play private or public. I pay taxes for public schools and i choose to pay tuition. An you are right, NOT all schools "recruit" as all of you anti privates say, but we can't help it if you don't live in Blount County or Sumner county with open enrollment. Really, no difference in those counties. 1.7 multiplier is almost 2x the enrollment and that is still not good enough. Keep in mind it's not all about football, it's the entire program.

I agree it's not all about football. I believe my post included classification issues with other sports as well. With Goodpasture having 600+ after the multiplier that is a AA school in any sport and AAA in fb playoffs enrollment numbers. Next, there is no rule against recruiting, it is a rules infraction to receive financial benefits if you play varsity sports. There is a difference in the two. Just because I think the T$$AA is dropping the ball on their policies why does that make me an "anti-private"? There was not a single comment in my post bashing a particular school, public or private. I did list 3 private schools as an example of the multiplier rule but in no way stated they were to blame and certainly didn't indicate they were or were not doing anything outside of the rules. You are looking at this thing as a private vs public conversation, which I guess on the surface it is easily perceived as such, this is more a policy issue. As you said the 1.7 (I was thinking 1.8 but I'm probably wrong on that) is a large multiplier. That is part of the problem. A multiplier is designed to account for athletic advantages for private schools playing in a public division. With the multiplier being that large, and the rule about classification changes, the latter will almost certainly cancel out the former. Lastly, I have not said, and will not say anything negative about a particular school that is abiding by the rules set by the governing body in any situation sports or otherwise. That does not mean that I will not take issue to a system that, as I see it, is obviously deficient.

 

You were pretty quick to pigeon hole me into a certain group of people you classify as "anti privates". Would you care to continue discussing the issues that I pointed out in my original post or would you rather us agree to disagree and call it a day? Either way just know, as I said before, my issue is not with private schools. It's certainly not with the young men and women who play sports for them. And definitely not with the parents who decide to do whatever it is they have to do to send their kids to what they believe is the best place for them to be. My issue is, and always will be, with the contradictory "solutions" to the issues two divisions creates.

Edited August 25, 2013 by crow