Opinion question concerning Private Schools in Tennessee

[Bighurt]

There is rule against recruiting.  From the TSSAA handbook (the underlining is mine) -

Recruiting Rule

Section 17. Athletic recruiting is prohibited. Athletic recruiting is the use of influence on a student or the parents

or guardians of a student, by any person(s) directly or indirectly associated with the school, to secure or retain a

student for athletic purposes. In the event that there is a violation of this rule, there shall be a penalty against the

school, and the student(s) who was the subject of the violation shall be ineligible for a minimum of one year.

The penalty and any additional period of ineligibility beyond the one-year minimum will be determined by the

Executive Director based on a consideration of the number of violations involved, the number of student-athletes

involved, the nature of the violation(s), the individual(s) responsible for the violation(s), and the extent to which the

violation may have been knowing, deliberate, or in reckless disregard of the provisions of this rule and the

commentary that accompanies this rule.

Edited August 29, 2013 by Bighurt

[bigchief]

The TSSAA Started in 1969. From 1969 to 1996 27 years private schools and public schools battled for the same gold balls in football. In those 27 years 92 state championships were won. 72 of those gold balls where taken home by public schools. That’s 66.2 %. (Source: High School Database Tennessee)

 

• Brentwood 9
• Webb 2
• Memphis Catholic 2
• DCA 2
• Baylor 1
• Father Ryan 1
• Christian Brothers 1
• ECS 1
• BGA 1

 

45% of the private titles went to Brentwood. Who got into a legal battle with TSSAA that lead to a split?

 

I do think there is an argument to put them back together. Granted there was no Ensworth. I agree private schools should be 5A or 6A due to the fact they can go get players call it recruiting or what ever. Open enrollment same thing 5A or 6A.

 

Folks say there is an advantage being a private school can get all the right kids. Don’t know about other cities, but in Chattanooga, Boyd Buc has what won 1 maybe 2, Notre Dame 0, Chattanooga Christian 0, Grace 0, Baylor 1 (in with public) McCallie1, (private only)

 

I vote for it to be all together, but my vote doesn’t count, and TSSAA is going to do what they want. But the 27 year history of playing together it was heavy public schools.

 

No, I am not a private school guy.

What you fail to take into account is that 43 years ago there were very few private schools compared to now. 1969 was just about the time of  desegregation which, say what you want to is the real cause of the influx of most private schools at least in Nashville. All of the Ezells, Goodpastures, DCAs, FRAs, Friendships, Nashville Christians, etc etc all got their starts in that same time period.  Back then it was basically Ryan and MBA. Lipscomb and USN were around but not a factor in athletics. There is a HUGE difference in having basically two schools grabbing your zoned players and having 30 schools taking them.  Redo your stats and from 1987-1997 when the split occured and I can guarantee you find a different answer.

[big red big blue]

In '96 when the split happened, it affected (if memory serves) MBA, BA, FRHS, CBHS, McCallie, Baylor, and MUS.  Of those schools, between '87-'97, only BA ('95 - '96) had won state titles.  It was obvious at the time that financial aid was not a significant factor in success in football; only 4 financial aid recipients could dress out for varsity football.  MUS and BA were more successful playing in AA; I don't think anyone else regularly made it very far in the play-offs playing in AAA.  MBA's 1990 team was the first ever to win 2 play-off games.

 

Once the split happened, the TSSAA lifted the 4 player requirement for financial aid schools.  That nailed the coffin shut on any hope that publics and financial aid privates would play together in a meaningful may.  That more than anything has impacted public schools in Nashville.

[lovemesomehsfb]

In '96 when the split happened, it affected (if memory serves) MBA, BA, FRHS, CBHS, McCallie, Baylor, and MUS.  Of those schools, between '87-'97, only BA ('95 - '96) had won state titles.  It was obvious at the time that financial aid was not a significant factor in success in football; only 4 financial aid recipients could dress out for varsity football.  MUS and BA were more successful playing in AA; I don't think anyone else regularly made it very far in the play-offs playing in AAA.  MBA's 1990 team was the first ever to win 2 play-off games.

 

Once the split happened, the TSSAA lifted the 4 player requirement for financial aid schools.  That nailed the coffin shut on any hope that publics and financial aid privates would play together in a meaningful may.  That more than anything has impacted public schools in Nashville.

 Almost every private school playing in the public school divisions give financial aid of some sort.  They just call it something else.   Work study,  the parents takes up tickets or works concessions stand at games and gets $5000 off tuition.    I think they have several legal loopholes.

[bigchief]

Public and private schools that admit they give aid will NEVER EVER return to the same division. I actually have more respect for the ones that admit it rather than hiding behind "work study" and benevolent work of the church and my mom got a job with a parent of another student at the school.

 

I truly believe that privates should start their own association. Then they could govern themselves. What a free-for-all that would be. I bet Frist's money wins that one. Oh wait, it already does.

[fredjones]

Public and private schools that admit they give aid will NEVER EVER return to the same division. I actually have more respect for the ones that admit it rather than hiding behind "work study" and benevolent work of the church and my mom got a job with a parent of another student at the school.

 

I truly believe that privates should start their own association. Then they could govern themselves. What a free-for-all that would be. I bet Frist's money wins that one. Oh wait, it already does.

Quit talking about Goodpasture and lipscomb like that.

[bigchief]

Actually, the "benevolence" award goes to another school out towards Brentwood.  One that is named after a single church not one supported by multiple congregations although they very well may be.

[etahrpscg]

Goodpasture went 0-10 in football in 2014.  They are only one of two private schools in the state to do this.  The other school is Fayette Academy.  Their softball team did not even make the region tournament last spring.  If they are recruiting they are doing a really bad job.

[etahrpscg]

Goodpasture and Fayette Academy both went winless in 2014 in football.  They are the ones to schedule.  Goodpasture is Division I & Fayette Academy is Division II.  They are only 2 of the 19 winless high school teams in the state.

[cbg]

Goodpasture went 0-10 in football in 2014.  They are only one of two private schools in the state to do this.  The other school is Fayette Academy.  Their softball team did not even make the region tournament last spring.  If they are recruiting they are doing a really bad job.

IMO, Goodpasture has more problems than just the football program.  Let's be honest and tell everyone that Goodpasture is not in the best area of Nashville and it's almost impossible to attract students from the local neighborhoods to attend the school because they cannot pay the tuition.  Back in the heyday of Goodpasture athletics they attracted students from outside the local neighborhood & got a great deal of the students from Sumner County.  Now you have Pope John Paul II, Sumner Academy, Davidson Academy & Goodpasture in competition for the same students.  Most families searching the list of private schools for their children to attend are looking at four things:  1. Facilities (How modern & nice are the facilities) 2. Athletics (Does the school have a well rounded athletic program that competes for championships) 3. Academics (What are the average ACT/SAT scores, how many National Merit Finalist does the school average each year & what types of colleges does most of the student body attend) 4. Does the school offer a safe Christian environment for the students)

When comparing Goodpasture to the other schools listed above, out of the four categories how many would Goodpasture be ranked first? 

Goodpasture is an old and proud school that should make several internal changes before they even look at athletics.

[CoachHolly7]

How do privates (especially privates that play in Division 1 and are thus subjected to a multiplier) have an advantage over open zoned publics?

1.  Private schools can get students from anywhere.   Some private schools have student-athletes from multiple counties, even other states sometimes.  And I know this, as my son is a student-athlete at a private school.   Public schools are basically stuck with whoever is in their zone.

 

2.  Recruiting. 

[Playerscoach]

1. Private schools can get students from anywhere. Some private schools have student-athletes from multiple counties, even other states sometimes. And I know this, as my son is a student-athlete at a private school. Public schools are basically stuck with whoever is in their zone.

 

2. Recruiting.