Umpires, yes umpires

[glock22]

Wow, very well said.

[crazzyness]

While it isnt the best situation to have the field ump approach a dugout, in the situation described above, i actually have much more of a problem with the home plate umpire than the field umpire.

 

First, on the balk, it was described as a 2-0 count then a balk occured. Then the plate guy announces a 3-0 count?? Thats not a ball. Its a balk. The only situation that is a ball is if it is an illegal pitch and there are no runners on base. The count should have remained 2-0.

 

2nd, on the overturned play at first, the plate guy shouldnt be watching that play, his first priority is to make sure the guy coming from 2nd to 3rd (you know, the winning run) actually tags the bag. Even if that werent the case, while he CAN see a pulled foot or swipe tag at 1st better, he has no buisness overturning a bang bang play where neither of those were an issue. He is 90+ feet away. Theres no way he can see that better than the field guy, unless he was wayyyy out of position.

 

It seems to me either A) the plate ump has a huge ego and thinks he saw everything, or more likely the case B )the field umpire was in way over his head,was timid and wasnt confident about his calls. You can tell he was timid because he got in a yelling match with an asst. Coach.

 

You dont yell with an asst. coach. You dont argue with an asst. coach, you take ZERO crap from an asst. coach. If he gives you trouble, you send him on to the house.

[IYellAtUmps]

While it isnt the best situation to have the field ump approach a dugout, in the situation described above, i actually have much more of a problem with the home plate umpire than the field umpire.

 

First, on the balk, it was described as a 2-0 count then a balk occured. Then the plate guy announces a 3-0 count?? Thats not a ball. Its a balk. The only situation that is a ball is if it is an illegal pitch and there are no runners on base. The count should have remained 2-0.

 

2nd, on the overturned play at first, the plate guy shouldnt be watching that play, his first priority is to make sure the guy coming from 2nd to 3rd (you know, the winning run) actually tags the bag. Even if that werent the case, while he CAN see a pulled foot or swipe tag at 1st better, he has no buisness overturning a bang bang play where neither of those were an issue. He is 90+ feet away. Theres no way he can see that better than the field guy, unless he was wayyyy out of position.

 

It seems to me either A) the plate ump has a huge ego and thinks he saw everything, or more likely the case B )the field umpire was in way over his head,was timid and wasnt confident about his calls. You can tell he was timid because he got in a yelling match with an asst. Coach.

 

You dont yell with an asst. coach. You dont argue with an asst. coach, you take ZERO crap from an asst. coach. If he gives you trouble, you send him on to the house.

 

.....very well said

[Gut Bombs]

Did you yell at umps yesterday? lol

[IYellAtUmps]

Did you yell at umps yesterday? lol

Surprisingly enough, I kept my mouth shut.  Seems as though there were plenty of others picking up my slack.  I doubt I would have been heard anyway.  LOL

[jake]

In high school baseball balks are immediately dead. In all other levels balks are live and play continues if the pitcher throws the ball.  So I'm pretty sure the protocol is to call "Time!" declare a balk and then award the bases in high school.  

 

On plays at first,  the plate umpire watches to make sure the fielder has a foot on the bag or if he pulls the foot early.  He also watches for sweep tags on throws up the line.  So it sounds like a basic appeal - I wasn't there though. 

 

This is exactly the problem.  You have a large majority of fans/dads thinking they know protocols and rules more than the guys who get paid to know them, and the worse part is they're not quiet about it. Why's it ok to yell insults at another human? Maybe at the pro level, but high school? 

 

It's pretty simple - this is HS baseball. The games are rarely played to perfection by the players. They're rarely coached to perfection by the coaches. Yet the umpires are expected to call the game to perfection. You can't hold the umpires to a higher standard than you hold the coaches and players and then get upset when they don't live up. 

 

Watching my kid grow up, you could usually tell if the umpire was ready to handle the level of ball they're calling. If they are, and they get in the right position and administer rules correctly, what more can you ask of them?

 

If they were perfect, or close to it, they wouldn't be calling high school baseball in east Tn.

 

Great post, Diamond dad.....

[Hoop23]

I'm saying when the guys getting paid to know the protocols and rules don't know them it's a joke. Because there is no accountability, once they pay the fee and take the online test it's like they become part of the Mafia. I read they only have to make an 80 on the test. I guess we should expect what we get when they are only require to be 80% on the knowledge portion. To put that in perspective I hope I never have to have an 80% doctor. Additionally to keep spouting off "why don't you play without them" I say why don't you get better at what you do and create a little credibility in your organization.

[edconner]

After reading all of this thread, I have a few points. First and foremost, this game is about the kids. Umpires get paid, coaches get paid, kids do not until college and beyond (yes a discounted education has a value). That leaves us with an interesting group of people remaining, the parents and fans, who actually PAY all of the above. Now this does not give them a free pass to be an idiot, but it does give them a degree of expectation. Umpires are NOT perfect and society has become more and more demanding. I expected the reaction that I have noticed in this tread from the MLB umpires when Reply was expanded, but have been pleasantly surprised that MOST have changed the call and appeared to be glad that they got it right. There is absolutely nothing wrong with making a mistake, kicking a call, we all make mistakes. What separates us is how we handle those mistakes. The strike zone has been the same for a long time, and many great umpires have enforced that zone correctly over that time.

When a coach or an instructor teaches these children plate discipline, they utilize that strike zone. That means that the fans have a legitimate expectation for an umpire to enforce THAT strike zone. I personally don't agree with ever changing the zone, most run rules will prevent a long game. One thing that is often not considered is that the player who you expand the zone on is due the same opportunity as all other players, especially if he is a late game substitute who might not get as many ABs as the starters. I often hear that all we want is the same zone for both teams. The reason they have a picture of the zone in the rule book is for equality, all umpires should enforce that zone. It is really frustrating as a fan for an umpire to give 2 balls outside because that pitcher is going to a D1 school and has earned that outside pitch. An umpire should NEVER dictate the game in any way. Momentum is an absolute part of this game and an umpire can certainly control that part of any game. I have seen umpires who will signal with their hands when a borderline pitch is up, down, in or out. As a fan I appreciate that, as should a coach and a catcher and especially a batter (who can make an adjustment). A good pitcher getting 2 balls off the plate as a called strike will do what? Throw the next one 3 balls out. He is seeing what he can get away with. The best home plate umpire enforces the zone in the rule book from game one of the preseasons first pitch until the final pitch of the final game of the postseason, and he will hear less fan noise than any other umpire. I have also seen umpires who are workable by the fans, and they get what they deserve (worked by the fans all night). If you miss a 1-1 pitch and call a strike a ball, so its 2-1. You can NOT make it up on the next close pitch, which after a foul ball could be a 2-2 pitch that is actually ball three and you ring him up on a make up call. What you have done is armed the crowd and you absolutely deserve what you are fixing to get. I would have to agree that the overall quality of umpires has gone down in the last few years, and that blame most certainly belongs on the TSSAA. They have plenty of issues, but no motivation to fix those issues. If you have not seen the Limbaugh plan for the post season, you owe it to yourself to check it out. In fact go to other states and check it out. TSSAA should require ALL districts to use the same format for selecting their 2 teams for post season. Regionals should be 2 of 3 to advance, ok with one game for seeding into substate. Substate should be 2 of 3. State tournament should be 2 double elimination sides of 4 teams, followed by a 2 of 3 true championship. A little more work, a lot more money, a true team effort. I have never blasted an umpire after a game, believe me he usually knows when he leaves the field if he was not very good. I have a number of times told them good job when they deserve it. But only once have I ever felt an umpire was so good that I stopped him and told him that he was the best home plate umpire I had ever seen. It was a regional game at Cordova high school in Memphis in 2011 I think. He was not local, because I had never seen him before I have never seen him since. I think back then the TSSAA shipped umpires to other areas to prevent any favoritism. Not sure if they still do that, but it is a good idea. I also think they used to do a better job at selecting postseason umpires. I know their was a HUGE call at the Farragut/Tullahoma game last year at the state tournament. I was late arriving and heard about the play from a Siegal parent, who would have been impartial I would think. What I watched after I got there was a GREAT baseball game, it is a shamed that that had to be tarnished by a bad call. If a player swings and misses he gets a strike, if an umpire misses a call he gets yelled at. If the player doesn't want to strike out, don't miss the ball. If the umpire doesn't want to get yelled at don't miss the call. Bang Bang is gonna happen, see it, call it, own it. When the video shows you missed it, come clean like Jim Joyce, don't stick with it like Angel Hernandez. It speaks volumes which one you are. I don't go to games to yell at umpires, but I have and will. I don't go to games to criticize the players or the coaches, but I have and will. Its called being honest. Don't take it personal, grow from it. Don't ever make that mistake again. This game belongs to the FANS, especially at the MLB level, but at all levels. At the high school level we do it for the kids. Don't be jealous of the facilities that some high schools have, get out and work and you can have those facilities also. Those booster club members usually have a full time job also and they get paid a lot less than the umpires, usually 65.00 a game less from what I understand. Before you say it, I am smart enough to know that I am not good enough to umpire. Also not asking you to quit, unless you are really bad, just focus and do a good job.

From ALL of us FANS, to ALL of you UMPIRES, "HAVE A GOOD GAME" the rest will take care of itself. GOOD LUCK to all teams who make the state tournament, HAVE FUN, its an experience that will last you a lifetime.

[Hoop23]

Now that was well said!

[cocheese]

Hoop23, you have obviously never seen the test. They ask questions about the most obscure rules. The questions are very confusing and a lot seem to have multiple answers or none of the available answers seem to be completely accurate. It is open book, but I think that may be due to the fact that umpires take it on their own and how could they enforce not having the book. That and I've been told they want umpires to open the book and locate these obsecure rules and read a little bit. Part 1 exam is for new umpires, must make an 80. Part 2 is for all umpires, must make an 80, and those who pass are available for postseason. Now, you say "open book? making an 80 should be a breeze!" Well, I've taken it and took two hours, looking up every question, in the rule book, case book and umpires manual and I still missed two! I haven't been able to umpire the past few years, but I still keep in touch and the test hasn't changed. I would love to see the people that scream and holler at blue about the rules take the test. Most would realize they don't know jack, most coaches would probably find themselves in that boat too. A lot of umpires might too. I don't think there is an umpire out there that wouldn't say "yeah, we've got some that aren't up to par and a few that ain't even close." I know I umpired with some, they were usually new, but some we're veterans. You'd see them on your schedule and cringe a little bit. I think the number one cause of poor officiating is the lack of bodies. Been around this for a long time, associations need guys that are willing to put the effort in to do a good job. We need people that are passionate about the game, like Iyellatumps, to step up and help the game out a little bit. Schedules and life make it hard, but it's no different for the ones out there doing a good job or a crappy job.

 

EDconner, you state that you're not smart enough to umpire, but you don't have to be smart, just a little crazy. I don't think there's a high school coach out there that wants an umpire to call a zone by the book. In my experience most like a more liberal zone. Especially the outside portion of the zone. Morden bats are so amazing these days a kid should have no problem with a ptich a little off the plate. You come across very few pitchers in high school baseball, most just throw the ball and need a bigger zone. Call the zone by the book and you'll be out there for three hours and the coaches will wish for a different umpire the next game.

 

Baseball is a game for human beings, humans screw up. The best umpires will have bad games. I do believe your lying to yourself if you don't think there are some really crappy umpires out there, but there are just as many, probably more, that are in it for the right reasons and want to give it their best.

[MLREB]

Sorry Edconner....you really need to join the TSSAA umpiring association and take a stab at it. Not being a SA, but I think your prospective might change a little if you spent a couple of years doing everything from middle school to high school umpiring. What you have defined is the perfect world that does not exist...even in the majors. "Most" that are umpiring in TSSAA aspire to be perfect. They NEVER want to "screw" a kid or a team out of an opportunity or an accomplishment. The comments from the fans, some are just incredible head shakers. Many if not most that are "yelling at the umps" know very little about the rules and typically prove that at some point during the game. I do appreciate a well thought out, clever, and creative comment. I have even written some down after a game just because they are so good. In the end the product over-all is pretty good. Yes...we have bad days and many good days. Competitive baseball inspires umps to stay on their toes while bad games, and there are many, can create mistakes and bad trends.

The strike zone?....well defined by the rules no doubt, but there are so many situations that can trend toward variations. You just have to be there long enough to understand. As much as the rules state a black and white definition, it is more grey than you want to believe. Catcher set ups create most of the comments from the fans and the coaches. A pitch can hit the mitt without movement yet be a ball because the catcher has the mitt outside the strike zone. Happens every game and often.

I appreciate your comments. While I don't completely disagree with you I can promise you are not in the real world. Take a walk in their shoes for a couple of years and then comment. I think you will have a much different prospective.