CPA beats JPII by 50?

[kbrks]

DAD1, As I said you have to look at the whole of the recruiting language and rules to base your conclusions.  DF example was being approached as an athlete in an athletic setting by an association with AAU basketball.  Within the narrow scope of the recruiting rules, it would be a mistake to think the TSSAA allows anyone (including parents or adults not employed by the school) the freedom to approach and initiate contact with others about attending another school.  If not, think about the potential problems it would create if that actually was allowed and the abuses that would result in the name of the rules.        

[kbrks]

You don't understand.  The burden of proof is on the accuser.  He says CPA recruits and cheats.  He has yet to prove that point other than saying that in some gym 6 years ago some parent said he should go to CPA.  If he can wrecklessly accuse without the burden of proof, then I can just as easily say he is lying.  That's fair.  Put this in context of what you would have to do in a court of law to prove your case.  He is the plaintiff.  The burden of proof rests on him, you and anyone else who accuses.

 

DF provided an example that should not be minimized especially since this discussion has been going on longer than six years. 

 

If I understand what you are saying since you think he is making false accusations then it is OK for you to make the accusation "he lies" even though you did nothing to meet your burden of proof.  If that is the case, nothing more than a double standard and you will not find a Scripture to support that approach. 

[IceCreamMan]

DF provided an example that should not be minimized especially since this discussion has been going on longer than six years. 

 

If I understand what you are saying since you think he is making false accusations then it is OK for you to make the accusation "he lies" even though you did nothing to meet your burden of proof.  If that is the case, nothing more than a double standard and you will not find a Scripture to support that approach. 

 

Nope, just the opposite.  How do we know he's telling the truth. He, like you, obviously have a hatred of this school.  If he is making accusations, he must back them up with real facts and evidence.  "An example that should not be minimized" is hearsay.  Give dates, time, places, names that can be corroborated.  Otherwise, it's just slandererous accusations.  Anyone can say they invented computers, but you have to prove it to make it stick. 

[coachrus]

Devilfanatic (now UCSportsFan) has said that while his son from Jackson County was playing AAU basketball that a CPA parent discussed CPA with him and/or his son.   He now claims often and loudly that this was illegal recruiting and evidence that CPA illegally recruits in all sports. Recently, he made this accusation against the current football coach, Ingle Martin, and the CPA football team, claiming that the CPA football team "illegally recruits all over Middle Tennessee and Northern Kentucky."

 

When asked what proof he had and whether he disclosed this information to the TSSAA or to the school, he declined to comment saying that it took place a long, long time ago.

 

Former CPA basketball Coach Brooks (who perhaps was the coach a long, long time ago when Devilfanatic's son was "allegedly recruited") has defended Devilfanatic's posts recently and even has encouraged Develfanatic into making these accusations and allegations against CPA. 

 

Once again, I ask Devilfanatic (UCSportsFan) and Coach Brooks to come public with their specific allegations and accusations. Let these accusations see the light of the day where, if there is any truth to them, then CPA would then have the burden to  clean up their house. Perhaps this "CPA parent" is still out there and targeting and tempting other Jackson County basketball players. 

 

What is clear to me is that Devilfanatic has made recent unsubstantiated allegations against Ingle Martin and the CPA football team based on an experience that he had with his son a long time ago with AAU basketball. This is very telling, especially since he won't come forth with the information from a long time ago. 

 

So let's have it. Give us the facts or stop the slander.

Edited December 30, 2013 by coachrus

[kbrks]

Leave it to coachrus to once again misinterpret the context of my statements and provide misleading and inaccurate information.  Since my past comments have made my position clear on the matter, I reserve the right to not respond to anyone who has or continues to personally attack me, misjudge my motives, name call, etc., since it is not done in the spirit of discussion or even fact finding. 

 

But my offer still stands coachrus, we can meet face to face and disscuss the facts all you want.  As I said, when appropriate examples are given for coachT, they are either dismissed, ignored, attacked, minimized, etc., so with some even making the attempt is nothing more than an exercise in futility.  There is either not enough information or too much information.   It is always something.  Since I have done it before with you on these boards, there is no sense in doing it again. 

[DougS]

I have first hand knowledge of CPA as my son played on an AAU team that was put together with a lot of CPA players a few years back and i was approached by supporters of the school to gage my interest in bringing him there to play so my accusations are not baseless and they would not make me libelous in any way shape or form so make sure you know what YOU'RE talking about and to whom you are addressing otherwise you might look like you don't know the facts. Now can anyone trace them back to the coaching staff? Absolutely not, its a well run organization. Any further questions?

 

 

first, @ UCSports...  Hope you enjoyed the Arby's.  why the name change?  I like it better than Fanatic..

 

My mom and my in-laws are supporters of the school my daughter attends.  That makes them technically offical supporters of the school.  They dont financially support the school other than paying the admission and concessions when they attend the games.  Oh, and they have bought school gear to wear.  And if they talk up the school to parents of athletes that is not a violation.  As for me as a member of the Booster Club and do provide extra financial support for the athletic department, I am very careful on what I say and whom I say it to.    Do I talk up our school? ABSOLUTLY!  But i only speak of the academic acheivement and the opportunities that are there for academics and the arts.  And I do start the conversation just as many times as I am asked about the school.  When asked about sports, i say I am happy with the athletic opportunities we have but that is not why we came to the school.  It helped but not the primary reason.  Then i direct them to Admissions office and give them the number or business card if i have any on me.

 

Now, based on the phrase in UCSports post, UCSports was asked if he would be interested in sending his son to school there by "supporters" of the school.  does that by itself constitute recruiting?  No Way.  Now, were any of these "supporters" affiliated in a known capacity with the any department at the school?  Booster, Band, Arts, Chorus, Bible, etc?  In this situation, I say, Maybe, but too close and I would err on the side of Yes it is.  Specifically in the athletic enviroment you described.  

 

Parents talking to other parents about the school is not recruitng.  or even talking to students about a school is not recruiting.  If so, EVERY school, public or private, recruits. 

 

@UCSports,   Whether you want to admit it, there have been supporters of Jackson County that have discussed with parents of other basketball players from other schools about coming to Jackson County.  With your logic, that is recruiting.  You know I love you and still pray for you everyday...

[matt610]

Leave it to coachrus to once again misinterpret the context of my statements and provide misleading and inaccurate information.  Since my past comments have made my position clear on the matter, I reserve the right to not respond to anyone who has or continues to personally attack me, misjudge my motives, name call, etc., since it is not done in the spirit of discussion or even fact finding. 

 

But my offer still stands coachrus, we can meet face to face and disscuss the facts all you want.  As I said, when appropriate examples are given for coachT, they are either dismissed, ignored, attacked, minimized, etc., so with some even making the attempt is nothing more than an exercise in futility.  There is either not enough information or too much information.   It is always something.  Since I have done it before with you on these boards, there is no sense in doing it again. 

(nodding in agreement)

[kbrks]

first, @ UCSports...  Hope you enjoyed the Arby's.  why the name change?  I like it better than Fanatic..

 

My mom and my in-laws are supporters of the school my daughter attends.  That makes them technically offical supporters of the school.  They dont financially support the school other than paying the admission and concessions when they attend the games.  Oh, and they have bought school gear to wear.  And if they talk up the school to parents of athletes that is not a violation.  As for me as a member of the Booster Club and do provide extra financial support for the athletic department, I am very careful on what I say and whom I say it to.    Do I talk up our school? ABSOLUTLY!  But i only speak of the academic acheivement and the opportunities that are there for academics and the arts.  And I do start the conversation just as many times as I am asked about the school.  When asked about sports, i say I am happy with the athletic opportunities we have but that is not why we came to the school.  It helped but not the primary reason.  Then i direct them to Admissions office and give them the number or business card if i have any on me.

 

Now, based on the phrase in UCSports post, UCSports was asked if he would be interested in sending his son to school there by "supporters" of the school.  does that by itself constitute recruiting?  No Way.  Now, were any of these "supporters" affiliated in a known capacity with the any department at the school?  Booster, Band, Arts, Chorus, Bible, etc?  In this situation, I say, Maybe, but too close and I would err on the side of Yes it is.  Specifically in the athletic enviroment you described.  

 

Parents talking to other parents about the school is not recruitng.  or even talking to students about a school is not recruiting.  If so, EVERY school, public or private, recruits. 

 

@UCSports,   Whether you want to admit it, there have been supporters of Jackson County that have discussed with parents of other basketball players from other schools about coming to Jackson County.  With your logic, that is recruiting.  You know I love you and still pray for you everyday...

 

With all due respect there is no need to split hairs or make this about semantics by using words like "talk up" or "discuss."  No one is talking about parents involved in a normal conversation talking about their school and the positive experience it has been for their children.  As you said, if an interest is expressed simply direct them to the right official school channels.  The word is recruit and what would constitute an illegal recruiting contact.  If you think you can be at an athletic event as described by DF and initiate contact by approaching a player or a parent to introduce your school, guage interest, etc., you would be wrong.  That type of contact in itself is at the very essence of recruiting.  This is how it starts.   

 

This is why the TSSAA rules uses the phrase direct/indirect to be all encompassing in order to limit and define what would constitute an illegal contact.  It doesn't matter what you call them; parent, booster, supporter or in-law since it is based on the actions and type of contact. 

[DougS]

With all due respect there is no need to split hairs or make this about semantics by using words like "talk up" or "discuss."  No one is talking about parents involved in a normal conversation talking about their school and the positive experience it has been for their children.  As you said, if an interest is expressed simply direct them to the right official school channels.  The word is recruit and what would constitute an illegal recruiting contact.  If you think you can be at an athletic event as described by DF and initiate contact by approaching a player or a parent to introduce your school, guage interest, etc., you would be wrong.  That type of contact in itself is at the very essence of recruiting.  This is how it starts.   

 

This is why the TSSAA rules uses the phrase direct/indirect to be all encompassing in order to limit and define what would constitute an illegal contact.  It doesn't matter what you call them; parent, booster, supporter or in-law since it is based on the actions and type of contact. 

 

with the return of due respect, I believe you and all those that are convinced every school but "yours" recruits.  And no one will convince you other wise of what you fell is illegal.  Just as i said to UCSports, even the fans, supports, in-laws, out-laws, parents of UC has broken this rule if it is based strictly on the wording of the book. 

 

And if there is this much open recruiting as so many claim, please, please show me, the one in the "naive, ignorant" group,  this evidence.  I'll pay for the round trip FedEx shipping.

 

Show me the outrage "you" have on recruiting by turning in your own school for the same violations that is being cllaimed against other schools.

[DAD1]

What keeps this topic so hot is those that make the allegations with no knowledge. I have a family member @ CPA and have seen some comments directed at him on how he ended up at CPA. Strong insinuations he was recruited. I know the story of how and why he got there and it did not involve CPA or anyone associated with CPA. In fact his interest in CPA was actually triggered by people associated with BGA. If people would quit accusing schools of inappropriate behavior based on rumor and what they see as "common sense" this problem would go away.

[UCSportsFan]

with the return of due respect, I believe you and all those that are convinced every school but "yours" recruits.  And no one will convince you other wise of what you fell is illegal.  Just as i said to UCSports, even the fans, supports, in-laws, out-laws, parents of UC has broken this rule if it is based strictly on the wording of the book. 

 

And if there is this much open recruiting as so many claim, please, please show me, the one in the "naive, ignorant" group,  this evidence.  I'll pay for the round trip FedEx shipping.

 

Show me the outrage "you" have on recruiting by turning in your own school for the same violations that is being cllaimed against other schools.

 

Doug,

 

To answer your question as to why i changed my name, many people would refer to me as "devil" for short and being a new christian i did not feel it was good for me to be called a devil so i thought i would change my name.  Besides now that my boys are out on their own i attend other games besides just Jackson County.  

 

Now to respond to some of these posts.... It does not bother me that someone calls me a liar as i know the truth and exactly what happened and how i was approached about bringing my son to CPA.  I have given a lot of thought about the whole private vs public debate and the recruiting stuff.  In my humble opinion i believe that it does happen in both arena's (public and private) and until TSSAA decides to split the two it will always be an issue and the ones that pay the biggest price are the county school systems because they are the ones at the biggest disadvantage.  Now the county schools that have open zoning are on the same level as the privates so my question is why wouldn't all county schools just adopt this idea?  

 

I no longer hold any grudges against the Private schools and from this day forward i will try my best to be objective in my posts when referring to them, after all this is a TSSAA issue not a school issue.  So going forward,  may the best team win no matter who it is or what sect they come from.  

 

Happy New Year!!!

Edited January 2, 2014 by UCSportsFan

[sportsnerd]

Well said, blessing to you in your new found faith, and praise God. I like CoachT but find it very hard to participate and not get sucked in to posting things I later regret saying. A lot of us are so competitive, we feel we have to have the last word, and our discussions degenerate into attacks if we aren't careful. It is very hard to "let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth" while at the same time defending or supporting your school and giving an opposing opinion. Some on CoachT post just to create negative threads and spread hateful feelings, but I cannot control that and I should not judge them. All I can do is be very careful what I say, and apologize when my posts are not edifying. Anyway, in 2014, I pledge to try to show grace in my posts and be forgiving to those who don't, and encourage my Brothers to follow suit.