TSSAA issues response to botched call that cost Cleveland it season.

[reaction]

I ran across the video highlights of Stone vs Cleveland. You can see the play around the 7:39 mark.

 

http://youtu.be/KV_fpXAsZJc

I may not be the sharpest tool in the shed but that looks like a slip to me. 

[Pudding]

Wow!  I'm not even a basketball fan, but I do know the game.  That isn't even close.  No way thats a foul.  The offensive players foot furthest from the defender obviously slid out from under him.  Looks like a slick spot on the floor.  There's no excuse for that missed/made up call.  Shame on those refs.  Anyone know which area the refs were from?  Just curious,.

[crazzyness]

I ran across the video highlights of Stone vs Cleveland. You can see the play around the 7:39 mark.

 

http://youtu.be/KV_fpXAsZJc

Just my .02 worth,

 

First, the quality of the video isn't that good, so its very hard to tell. That being said, I wouldn't say it was a clear walk, and the possibility of that being a foul is there. I can't see if their feet got tangled up, but if they did, it would be a foul since the defensive player didn't have position. The trail ref WOULD have a better view of any contact in that particular situation.

[OnceAJet]

Just my .02 worth,

 

First, the quality of the video isn't that good, so its very hard to tell. That being said, I wouldn't say it was a clear walk, and the possibility of that being a foul is there. I can't see if their feet got tangled up, but if they did, it would be a foul since the defensive player didn't have position. The trail ref WOULD have a better view of any contact in that particular situation.

There was contact.  I also beleive he kept his dribble and actually was passing it out to Yoder wide open in the corner after he went down.

[mumbletypeg]

First off, in defense of officials they are definitely not overpaid. It is hard to get a large number of quality officials and keep them. Basketball is a very fast paced game and tough to call. Officials, just like players and coaches, make mistakes. With that being said, there is no way that that should have been called a foul and if I was involved with Cleveland I would be crushed. Looked like one of those plays where he anticipated a foul, blew his whistle, and then had to call something. Travel would have been a more appropriate call and then let the players decide the outcome in ot. Very unfortunate. The frustrating part is that there seems to be zero accountability for officials and tssaa is responsible for creating that perception whether it is true or not.

[Pudding]

First off, in defense of officials they are definitely not overpaid. It is hard to get a large number of quality officials and keep them. Basketball is a very fast paced game and tough to call. Officials, just like players and coaches, make mistakes. With that being said, there is no way that that should have been called a foul and if I was involved with Cleveland I would be crushed. Looked like one of those plays where he anticipated a foul, blew his whistle, and then had to call something. Travel would have been a more appropriate call and then let the players decide the outcome in ot. Very unfortunate. The frustrating part is that there seems to be zero accountability for officials and tssaa is responsible for creating that perception whether it is true or not.

 

Well said, mumble.  I agree on every point you stated.  The zebras aren't overpaid.  Cut the pay in half and see what kind of guys are willing to ref at a finaical loss.  Figuring in travel, gear, etc, refereeing isnt a finaicial windfall.  Much less and it would be negative financial venture for many of the zebras.  And yes, they are human and make mistakes.  I do believe the video here was pretty dawgone clear that it was a walk.  I'm really perplexed that even the homers will try to dispute this.  Come on guys, you can't tell me the kids foot was pushed or tangled in that video.  It slid out / slipped very quickly due to lack of traction and/or a slick spot on the floor, as the kid tried to make a hard , quick step driving.  Hey, the zebras just blew it.  They shouldnt have and it is sad for Cleveland. 

 

And yes, there also should be something in place for the state to repremand/fine/sit these guys.  If I were a referee, I would certainly be man enough to admit the mistake and to say hey if I deserve a repremand or suspension, I take it.  There are no checks and balances through the T$$AA.  They are too worried about being sued to do anything.  The local assigning officials / supervisors are not going to admit mistakes from their association, at least not publically, and are not going to do anything about blatent mistakes like this.  In the end, it's sad for the kids and there's nothing that can be done about it as long as the T$$AA sits on their hands (and stacks of cash).  Being a football guy, it reminds me of the ghost call for illegal man down field that cost Maryville the state championship, I think 2 years ago.  The video showed that perfectly too.  That umpire should have been asked to not come back and not to cash his check.  Come on TSSAA, grow a pair.

[trebs]

May I ask which person from TSSAA said this specifically? Who was actually quoted?

I hope you didn't think this was an actual news release.

 

I enjoyed reading it!

 

I watched the video and in my opinion it was a walk.

 

Tough loss for Cleveland.  Unfortunately, that is the way the "ball bounces" sometimes.

[mumbletypeg]

Well said, mumble.  I agree on every point you stated.  The zebras aren't overpaid.  Cut the pay in half and see what kind of guys are willing to ref at a finaical loss.  Figuring in travel, gear, etc, refereeing isnt a finaicial windfall.  Much less and it would be negative financial venture for many of the zebras.  And yes, they are human and make mistakes.  I do believe the video here was pretty dawgone clear that it was a walk.  I'm really perplexed that even the homers will try to dispute this.  Come on guys, you can't tell me the kids foot was pushed or tangled in that video.  It slid out / slipped very quickly due to lack of traction and/or a slick spot on the floor, as the kid tried to make a hard , quick step driving.  Hey, the zebras just blew it.  They shouldnt have and it is sad for Cleveland. 

 

And yes, there also should be something in place for the state to repremand/fine/sit these guys.  If I were a referee, I would certainly be man enough to admit the mistake and to say hey if I deserve a repremand or suspension, I take it.  There are no checks and balances through the T$$AA.  They are too worried about being sued to do anything.  The local assigning officials / supervisors are not going to admit mistakes from their association, at least not publically, and are not going to do anything about blatent mistakes like this.  In the end, it's sad for the kids and there's nothing that can be done about it as long as the T$$AA sits on their hands (and stacks of cash).  Being a football guy, it reminds me of the ghost call for illegal man down field that cost Maryville the state championship, I think 2 years ago.  The video showed that perfectly too.  That umpire should have been asked to not come back and not to cash his check.  Come on TSSAA, grow a pair.

I remember that call against Maryville as well and it was a shame(potential game winning 2-point conversion if I remember correctly). Unfortunately, the refs are a part of the game just like players, coaches, and fans. The best ones are the ones that you don't even notice and the vast majority of them have good intentions, take pride in their work, and do it because they like to be involved in high school sports-all admirable qualities. My guess would be that the official who made this call in the Stone/Cleveland game feels terrible about it after seeing the film, but there is no instant replay in high school basketball(thankfully) and nothing can change the result now. I know that doesn't make anyone from Cleveland feel any better about it, but I would like to believe that is the case. I think we would all like to see some sort of accountability for officials though in the hopes that it reduces the frequency of these situations in the future and improves the overall quality of officials.

[etownsparky]

I do not know anything about this subject except what I just read on this thread.  However, I have a question and a comment. Which association were the officials from? I believe if there are two whistles on the same play whereby one official calls a foul and the other a violation, I am pretty sure the foul takes precedence.

Edited February 28, 2014 by etownsparky

[crazzyness]

I do not know anything about this subject except what I just read on this thread. However, I have a question and a comment. Which association were the officials from? I believe if there are two whistles on the same play whereby one official calls a foul and the other a violation, I am pretty sure the foul takes precedence.

Just a guess, but I would think the officials were from the upper cumberland area or south central TN area. But idk.

 

As for the foul/travel situation, if you have a double whistle like that, the officials should get together and decide which happened first. Once he travels, the play is whistled dead and the following foul doesn't matter, unless it was flagrent of course, in which case it would be a technical. If its deemed the foul occured first and the contact cause the walk, well then obviously the foul is called.

[judgesmales]

They were probably from south central association, which is one of the worst ran associations in the state. They always have controversial calls/decisions and have attitudes about it.

 

The coaches always have public repercussions to ejections $250 fine and 2 game suspension. It is in the papers and on CoachT. The referees punishment is always in house, so the public never knows, i.e. your not calling games this week, hence their 2 game suspension! No one knows but them and the supervisor. TSSAA and the supervisors of officials are gutless on this because they won't even discuss a way to evaluate officials with the coaches. Also, this goes back to the coaches for not pushing this issue, they will get on her and complain about this call or that one but aren't a part of the solution. Coaches are evaluated during each game they are school employees. To me an official is an employee of those schools he/she is refereeing for, therefore they should be evaluated by the coaches, ad's, and administrators of those schools. Those evaluations should be tied into their ability to call tournament games, the better the evaluations the bigger the games they get to officiate. It is a simple yet profound problem I guess.

[bullfrog]

simple solution up their pay and give them a 3 strike your out.