Sullivan South - Sullivan Co. Football

[Gunner0331]

I can't speak for all the teams but I've seen things in strength and speed training that made me feel like I stayed at a holiday inn.If some of these guys had been in your position,our trops couldn't have carried their gear out of the barracks..By the way,thanks for your service,I never seen combat but have all the respect in the world  for all of you that have.My step dad was in Vietnam during the tet offensive.Those guys were treated like shet when they came home and that should never happen in America.Thanks again

You are welcome and Thank You:)

[BlueDevil58]

The Fact that Greeneville High school is the same demographics would make your argument invalid. They run the spread and train on speed training with Coach Lyons. (He even hold classes for other sports also). There was a reason that in 06 Greeneville was 4-6 and in 07 went 10-3 and went to the quarter finals. New coach, new work ethic, new expectations but the same players from the 06 to 07 team

 

Plus they had a stud QB transfer in from out of state who ran 4.3 and would have been playing in the SEC if he hadn't had a ton of discipline problems.  Don't forget that...

 

You can train for speed and it's important that a team does it.  All the bigger and well coached programs do and if a team doesn't train for speed, they'll wind up like Sullivan Central.  The thing is that kids will have a cap on how fast they can get based off their genetic potential.

 

If you go to a school in inner city Knoxville, Chattanooga, North Nashville, or Memphis and you'll get dozens of kids who do not really train for speed and will walk out running 4.7 or better.  You go to the better schools in NETN who have well organized programs that train for speed year-round and they might have 10 who run that fast with intense training.

 

Places like Maryville and Alcoa benefit from a combination of open enrollment policies and winning tradition, which draws players in.  On a much lesser scale, the local powerhouses like Dobyns-Bennett, Elizabethan, and Greenville have had that going on for years, too, but it's not nearly to that extent.

 

The coaching around here is just fine, but you're not going to win the Kentucky Derby with a Clydesdale no matter how hard you train him to run fast.  We produce quite a few decent DII and some FCS prospects at positions where size, strength, and grit are more important than speed--just look at the signees in Feb. and you'll see we mostly have TE, OL, DL, and LB from NETN sign their LOI... but you don't see a lot of fast RBs, WRs, and DBs coming out of here and there are reasons for that.  We have some, but not many.  That's just how the population breaks down.

 

In contrast, an old coaching buddy of mine coached in Memphis for years and said his average Offensive Linemen was in the 4.9 range--around here, that's about what the average WR or RB runs.

Edited October 13, 2016 by BlueDevil58

[BlueDevil58]

OK coach it's the talent.Right after you get past Greeneville the talent drops to hail.Those players in the NFL didn't really come from Kingsport or Elizabethton or JC- Franklin that just retired ..Those players at UT,WF and other schools were not from this area.That player that ran down and knocked the ball loose against A&M last night didn't really have speed,it was fake.Explain then how Norris has a strategy and nobody else can use it with all these poor athletes.No over paid  coach can explain why Greeneville with 8 or 9 hundred  can line up with schools two and three times their size and it not be either they have dam good athletes or a dam good coach that is worth his money and does his job right.I'll say it's both and it could be done at other schools just the same.

 

It doesn't drop to "a hail," whatever that means, but it does drop off as you get whiter and whiter populations.

 

Football's a team game.  There are a handful of local kids to be proud of in the NFL... but do those schools have 4 or 5 just like them every year?  No.  They're once in a lifetime talents.

 

I'm talking about averages here, and even the averages that are on the field at the same time compared to the opponents'.  We have some fast kids, but they're few and far between--Dobyns Bennett has always had a few more than everyone else locally, but compared to what you see at the schools in the Knoxville area and beyond, it's average.

 

Didn't you wonder why that was?  Have you ever looked at what the racial demographics look like for Dobyns Bennett compared to most other NETN schools?  D-B and GHS are both about 10% black.  Science Hill is 13%.  Sullivan County is only 1.5%.  Washington County is 2.5%.  Hawkins County is 2.0%.  So D-B and Greenville have 4-5 times the pool of students who are far more likely to have the genetics for elite speed than their local competition.  Coincidentally, they usually beat them up every year... then get blown off the field by a Knoxville area school in the 2nd or 3rd round.

 

Now, let's compare that to Morristown West (5%), Maryville (3.8%), Alcoa (21%), Fulton (45%), Knox West (30%), etc.

 

It's worth noting that Morristown West traditionally had about 15% black enrollment in their glory days, but as their number of black athletes has decreased in recent years, so has their success on the field.  Maryville is essentially a private school program at this point, due to their open enrollment policy allowing them to recruit like a private and their resources and tradition serving as a magnet for motivated students from up to 90 miles away going there to play football.

 

What looks lightning fast and all-world here isn't as special compared to what you see in the rest of the state.  Dobyns-Bennett and Science Hill have had to find that out the hard way from playing in the Super 32.  People don't understand that and just want to blame the coaches, though.  Trust me... if you knew how how poorly some of the more athletic teams are actually coached in other parts of the state, you'd respect NE TN coaching a lot more.  Coaches here do a good job of getting a lot out of what they have to work with.

Edited October 13, 2016 by BlueDevil58

[BlueDevil58]

I never have coached a football team, but I do have experience training men how to be combat ready. Somebody tell me if I am the only one that sees a lack of speed training for all players on a football team with our local teams.

 

To my knowledge, they all do it.  You have to in order to stay competitive.  Everyone works their tails off in the offseason.  What looks like a lack of speed training is actually just a lack of speed, period, after training.

 

Some are better at it than others, but the teams who have traditionally been good year in and year out train their speed.  Dobyns-Bennett has had a great speed training program for over two decades.  So does Greenville, Science Hill, and Tennessee High.  I know that South used to have a good one, too.

 

The teams who are at the bottom of the standings every year are the ones who don't do it as well.  You can figure them out by looking at their records over the past 5 years or so.  Usually, it's not through lack of effort, so much as it is lack of kids actually showing up or the schools providing the time and resources to really make it effective (like an athletic period for weights and speed training).

Edited October 13, 2016 by BlueDevil58

[Pudding]

Not going to get into all that racial bs that bluedevil threw in there.  I am of mixed race and consider myself black when I have to check one of those stupid boxes.  I am one that hates the racial stereotypes.  I know you did not mean it in a negative manner, Mr. bluedevil, I'm just not getting into it.

 

As far as the original conversations about Sullivan County:

The Central program was killed years ago and is beyond bringing back.  From a previous basketball coach who highly discouraged his players from playing football (shades of Warren, and Buck at DB).  A lot of coaching changes, including a middle school coach... not good for the program and keeping players in Blountville.

 

East ebbs and flows, with average talent.  They are a bit of an anomaly to me.  They tend to swing up and down as much as any area school, from playoff good to will-they-win-a-game bad.  A ton of coaching changes hasn't helped.

 

North competes well at their level and yes, Norris has found a boring offense that wins games until he gets far into the playoffs.  If they were across the state line they'd be world beaters in Virginia.  SW Virginia schools are very similar in offensive approach from what I've seen.  That being said, he finds wins.  Norris should be the new school HC and be able to pick his staff.

 

 South on the other hand has had a ton of talent since around 2004, with a few seasons where it was slim.  I don't care what you say, Talent will win games.  They always managed to have 2 or 3 good classes there at a time as well.  That's huge. Carter was no Saben when he was at South.  He just had a ton of talent, and knew it was dropping off a cliff when to got out.  Now at Science Hill, he once again has a lot of talent.  Heck, almost anyone could have coached those 2007-2009 South teams and won.  Mucho talent.

The perfect storm has hit Sullivan South right now.  They started season with a two lesser and thinner upper classes and depended on the sophomores at a lot of skill positions.  There are some talented players in each class, just not many except the sophomores, in my opinion.  The freshman class won't help, and the undefeated middle school team, we shall see. Heard they are small. Then come the injuries:  the Jr quarterback who was 90% of the offense and the offensive coach ran him like he was 220lb Curt Phillips, both LB/Full Backs (only running back is the Ford kid that returns kickoffs and the Offensive coach hasn't played), the soph safety with a broken arm, then the two sr WRs who honestly have dropped as many as caught.  To be fair, the little sophomore receivers have dropped a ton of balls too, every game.  Stack on top of that, two coordinators who will not switch out their players and try different players.  If a kid is being picked on every single week for at least 2 long td passes, well just keep doing what your doing I guess. - Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.  Why on earth are they not playing the sr Ford kid at running back and cornerback, that ran back the kickoff and runs hard when he gets to play at the end of games.  Not playing your best players?  What's up with that you wonder? How long should a coach go when there is zero pocket time for the quarterback?  Is there no one that can block for a few seconds?  How long do you stay on the same path when no one seems to be able to even tackle.  Word is, the offensive play calling coach is way above his head.  Is Hayne calling the shots, lineups, plays?  I have no allegiance or tie to any local school so I have no issue spreading rumors I hear.  Rumor is OC plays his favs and family favs, and Haynie does nothing to curb it, even after another coach called him out on it (another reason to hire Norris at the new school).   hmmm, interesting, huh?     

 

Then again, I may be full of crapola, and you are welcom to call me out on it and tell me I am wrong.  I could be full of it.  Then again...

Edited October 13, 2016 by Pudding

[BatmanDB]

I could care less about the color of anyone's skin .this area needs more coaches like Greeneville.If Greeneville can win it all twice,then no other area coach has a leg to stand on

Edited October 14, 2016 by BatmanDB

[DandDD]

Not going to get into all that racial bs that bluedevil threw in there.  I am of mixed race and consider myself black when I have to check one of those stupid boxes.  I am one that hates the racial stereotypes.  I know you did not mean it in a negative manner, Mr. bluedevil, I'm just not getting into it.

 

As far as the original conversations about Sullivan County:

The Central program was killed years ago and is beyond bringing back.  From a previous basketball coach who highly discouraged his players from playing football (shades of Warren, and Buck at DB).  A lot of coaching changes, including a middle school coach... not good for the program and keeping players in Blountville.

 

East ebbs and flows, with average talent.  They are a bit of an anomaly to me.  They tend to swing up and down as much as any area school, from playoff good to will-they-win-a-game bad.  A ton of coaching changes hasn't helped.

 

North competes well at their level and yes, Norris has found a boring offense that wins games until he gets far into the playoffs.  If they were across the state line they'd be world beaters in Virginia.  SW Virginia schools are very similar in offensive approach from what I've seen.  That being said, he finds wins.  Norris should be the new school HC and be able to pick his staff.

 

 South on the other hand has had a ton of talent since around 2004, with a few seasons where it was slim.  I don't care what you say, Talent will win games.  They always managed to have 2 or 3 good classes there at a time as well.  That's huge. Carter was no Saben when he was at South.  He just had a ton of talent, and knew it was dropping off a cliff when to got out.  Now at Science Hill, he once again has a lot of talent.  Heck, almost anyone could have coached those 2007-2009 South teams and won.  Mucho talent.

The perfect storm has hit Sullivan South right now.  They started season with a two lesser and thinner upper classes and depended on the sophomores at a lot of skill positions.  There are some talented players in each class, just not many except the sophomores, in my opinion.  The freshman class won't help, and the undefeated middle school team, we shall see. Heard they are small. Then come the injuries:  the Jr quarterback who was 90% of the offense and the offensive coach ran him like he was 220lb Curt Phillips, both LB/Full Backs (only running back is the Ford kid that returns kickoffs and the Offensive coach hasn't played), the soph safety with a broken arm, then the two sr WRs who honestly have dropped as many as caught.  To be fair, the little sophomore receivers have dropped a ton of balls too, every game.  Stack on top of that, two coordinators who will not switch out their players and try different players.  If a kid is being picked on every single week for at least 2 long td passes, well just keep doing what your doing I guess. - Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.  Why on earth are they not playing the sr Ford kid at running back and cornerback, that ran back the kickoff and runs hard when he gets to play at the end of games.  Not playing your best players?  What's up with that you wonder? How long should a coach go when there is zero pocket time for the quarterback?  Is there no one that can block for a few seconds?  How long do you stay on the same path when no one seems to be able to even tackle.  Word is, the offensive play calling coach is way above his head.  Is Hayne calling the shots, lineups, plays?  I have no allegiance or tie to any local school so I have no issue spreading rumors I hear.  Rumor is OC plays his favs and family favs, and Haynie does nothing to curb it, even after another coach called him out on it (another reason to hire Norris at the new school).   hmmm, interesting, huh?     

 

Then again, I may be full of crapola, and you are welcom to call me out on it and tell me I am wrong.  I could be full of it.  Then again...

I agree. Norris as head coach would be a good starting point. Let him pick his staff from all the other coaches in the county that are interested in building a top notch football program. I'm not a North fan per say but I think Coach Norris does a fine job. I grew up in Colonial Hgts. Played at Central (before there was a South). Always pulled for South over the years. I've seen some really good teams over the years and a lot of good athletes. I always thought that the coaching staffs over the years were average at best. Good guys all. Great coaches No.  Pretty good talent over the years.  Talent means everything. Good coaches probably get you an extra win or two during the season (even when your talent is down) or possibly a round or two deeper in the playoffs when you have a talented team. Hard to find those type coaches already in the school system. Coach Norris is probably the closest the county has to being that type coach.

[sshsfan]

Not going to get into all that racial bs that bluedevil threw in there.  I am of mixed race and consider myself black when I have to check one of those stupid boxes.  I am one that hates the racial stereotypes.  I know you did not mean it in a negative manner, Mr. bluedevil, I'm just not getting into it.

 

As far as the original conversations about Sullivan County:

The Central program was killed years ago and is beyond bringing back.  From a previous basketball coach who highly discouraged his players from playing football (shades of Warren, and Buck at DB).  A lot of coaching changes, including a middle school coach... not good for the program and keeping players in Blountville.

 

East ebbs and flows, with average talent.  They are a bit of an anomaly to me.  They tend to swing up and down as much as any area school, from playoff good to will-they-win-a-game bad.  A ton of coaching changes hasn't helped.

 

North competes well at their level and yes, Norris has found a boring offense that wins games until he gets far into the playoffs.  If they were across the state line they'd be world beaters in Virginia.  SW Virginia schools are very similar in offensive approach from what I've seen.  That being said, he finds wins.  Norris should be the new school HC and be able to pick his staff.

 

 South on the other hand has had a ton of talent since around 2004, with a few seasons where it was slim.  I don't care what you say, Talent will win games.  They always managed to have 2 or 3 good classes there at a time as well.  That's huge. Carter was no Saben when he was at South.  He just had a ton of talent, and knew it was dropping off a cliff when to got out.  Now at Science Hill, he once again has a lot of talent.  Heck, almost anyone could have coached those 2007-2009 South teams and won.  Mucho talent.

The perfect storm has hit Sullivan South right now.  They started season with a two lesser and thinner upper classes and depended on the sophomores at a lot of skill positions.  There are some talented players in each class, just not many except the sophomores, in my opinion.  The freshman class won't help, and the undefeated middle school team, we shall see. Heard they are small. Then come the injuries:  the Jr quarterback who was 90% of the offense and the offensive coach ran him like he was 220lb Curt Phillips, both LB/Full Backs (only running back is the Ford kid that returns kickoffs and the Offensive coach hasn't played), the soph safety with a broken arm, then the two sr WRs who honestly have dropped as many as caught.  To be fair, the little sophomore receivers have dropped a ton of balls too, every game.  Stack on top of that, two coordinators who will not switch out their players and try different players.  If a kid is being picked on every single week for at least 2 long td passes, well just keep doing what your doing I guess. - Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.  Why on earth are they not playing the sr Ford kid at running back and cornerback, that ran back the kickoff and runs hard when he gets to play at the end of games.  Not playing your best players?  What's up with that you wonder? How long should a coach go when there is zero pocket time for the quarterback?  Is there no one that can block for a few seconds?  How long do you stay on the same path when no one seems to be able to even tackle.  Word is, the offensive play calling coach is way above his head.  Is Hayne calling the shots, lineups, plays?  I have no allegiance or tie to any local school so I have no issue spreading rumors I hear.  Rumor is OC plays his favs and family favs, and Haynie does nothing to curb it, even after another coach called him out on it (another reason to hire Norris at the new school).   hmmm, interesting, huh?     

 

Then again, I may be full of crapola, and you are welcom to call me out on it and tell me I am wrong.  I could be full of it.  Then again...

The Ford kid is the best kick returner and should be returning punts, he has been starting at RB in certain sets but has always had a tendency to dance around instead of hit the hole hard (if you were at the G'ville game you probably saw him getting chewed out for this) he was also kicked off the team last year for disciplinary reasons so he may still not be in good favor with the staff. and yes I agree he should be given the chance to play CB over that certain CB that has been burned numerous times this season. South lost another senior WR/CB this week in a non football related injury so it just keeps getting worse for this team. You've got to hand it to the seniors for keeping the faith and playing and practicing hard, these kids were playing a couple of years ago for a team that won the conference title, beat G'ville in the 2nd round of playoffs and lost to eventual state champs Fulton, that's a pretty big drop off in a couple of years and you know those kids are disappointed in their Sr. season.

[BatmanDB]

I agree. Norris as head coach would be a good starting point. Let him pick his staff from all the other coaches in the county that are interested in building a top notch football program. I'm not a North fan per say but I think Coach Norris does a fine job. I grew up in Colonial Hgts. Played at Central (before there was a South). Always pulled for South over the years. I've seen some really good teams over the years and a lot of good athletes. I always thought that the coaching staffs over the years were average at best. Good guys all. Great coaches No.  Pretty good talent over the years.  Talent means everything. Good coaches probably get you an extra win or two during the season (even when your talent is down) or possibly a round or two deeper in the playoffs when you have a talented team. Hard to find those type coaches already in the school system. Coach Norris is probably the closest the county has to being that type coach.

I'll agree,coach Norris has proven he is one of the best coaches in the area.

[jhilts]

Not going to get into all that racial bs that bluedevil threw in there.  I am of mixed race and consider myself black when I have to check one of those stupid boxes.  I am one that hates the racial stereotypes.  I know you did not mean it in a negative manner, Mr. bluedevil, I'm just not getting into it.

 

As far as the original conversations about Sullivan County:

The Central program was killed years ago and is beyond bringing back.  From a previous basketball coach who highly discouraged his players from playing football (shades of Warren, and Buck at DB).  A lot of coaching changes, including a middle school coach... not good for the program and keeping players in Blountville.

 

East ebbs and flows, with average talent.  They are a bit of an anomaly to me.  They tend to swing up and down as much as any area school, from playoff good to will-they-win-a-game bad.  A ton of coaching changes hasn't helped.

 

North competes well at their level and yes, Norris has found a boring offense that wins games until he gets far into the playoffs.  If they were across the state line they'd be world beaters in Virginia.  SW Virginia schools are very similar in offensive approach from what I've seen.  That being said, he finds wins.  Norris should be the new school HC and be able to pick his staff.

 

 South on the other hand has had a ton of talent since around 2004, with a few seasons where it was slim.  I don't care what you say, Talent will win games.  They always managed to have 2 or 3 good classes there at a time as well.  That's huge. Carter was no Saben when he was at South.  He just had a ton of talent, and knew it was dropping off a cliff when to got out.  Now at Science Hill, he once again has a lot of talent.  Heck, almost anyone could have coached those 2007-2009 South teams and won.  Mucho talent.

The perfect storm has hit Sullivan South right now.  They started season with a two lesser and thinner upper classes and depended on the sophomores at a lot of skill positions.  There are some talented players in each class, just not many except the sophomores, in my opinion.  The freshman class won't help, and the undefeated middle school team, we shall see. Heard they are small. Then come the injuries:  the Jr quarterback who was 90% of the offense and the offensive coach ran him like he was 220lb Curt Phillips, both LB/Full Backs (only running back is the Ford kid that returns kickoffs and the Offensive coach hasn't played), the soph safety with a broken arm, then the two sr WRs who honestly have dropped as many as caught.  To be fair, the little sophomore receivers have dropped a ton of balls too, every game.  Stack on top of that, two coordinators who will not switch out their players and try different players.  If a kid is being picked on every single week for at least 2 long td passes, well just keep doing what your doing I guess. - Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.  Why on earth are they not playing the sr Ford kid at running back and cornerback, that ran back the kickoff and runs hard when he gets to play at the end of games.  Not playing your best players?  What's up with that you wonder? How long should a coach go when there is zero pocket time for the quarterback?  Is there no one that can block for a few seconds?  How long do you stay on the same path when no one seems to be able to even tackle.  Word is, the offensive play calling coach is way above his head.  Is Hayne calling the shots, lineups, plays?  I have no allegiance or tie to any local school so I have no issue spreading rumors I hear.  Rumor is OC plays his favs and family favs, and Haynie does nothing to curb it, even after another coach called him out on it (another reason to hire Norris at the new school).   hmmm, interesting, huh?     

 

Then again, I may be full of crapola, and you are welcom to call me out on it and tell me I am wrong.  I could be full of it.  Then again...

Correct on South. Only worse.

[Pudding]

The Ford kid .... he was also kicked off the team last year for disciplinary reasons so he may still not be in good favor with the staff. and yes I agree he should be given the chance to play CB over that certain CB ....

Sshsfan, no I wasn't at the GreeEville game.  I saw that one coming and went to watch Boone Friday. 

So, if you are correct, and I suspect you are, the South coaches are a bunch of children. To hold a kid in bad graces, over something that happened lady year, is so darn shallow and childish. If they allowed the kid back on the team, he should be given equal opportunity to compete. I hope 'holding grudges' isn't a life lesson they are teaching their boys. That's just weak. These guys would cut off their nose to spite their face. Well at least all the favorite sons are playing, huh?

 

Wow, I have to say, I expected to get slammed for my last post. I expected someone to 'put me in my place' and tell me how off base I am. Maybe even compare me to WacoJacko, whoever. I guess old Puddin' struck oil.

 

I asked a buddy who has a kid that plays, SR who doesn't get on the field much, why on earth their AD doesn't step in to end the petty favoritism and generally apathetic manner of the head coach in dealing with these problems.  Please, I know this isn't all the coaches.  I am told there's a couple goodin's, but they are not given much of a voice.  I asked him why on earth would they not ask previous OC Jordan to come back and call the plays at least, and demote the OC to freshman team extra point holder coach or something.  His response, "Thick as thieves, they are over there."  There you have it. 

I truly hate to see this for the Rebs.  You were great to watch in the past. 

Edited October 14, 2016 by Pudding

[Pudding]

I could care less about the color of anyone's skin .this area needs more coaches like Greeneville.If Greeneville can win it all twice,then no other area coach has a leg to stand on

Agreed. The dark Knight is wise.