UTC - 4th Place, 2 wrestlers in finals?

[Newestguy]

Excuses?

[pantheon]

I'm sure Heath and his staff will break the weekend's performance down and address it in an upcoming Moc Talk.

 

I'll offer that with fewer DI wrestling programs than 10 years ago and Southern Conference wrestling schools hiring quality head coaches, there is much more parity than ever before.

 

That said, as a former wrestling Moc, I'm still disappointed with a 4th place finish in the SoCon.

 

Chattanoogan Article

 

-TH

Edited March 5, 2017 by pantheon

[WareagleAU]

Can someone please explain the scoring in the 2nd overtime of the Debien match?  The App State wrestler started down.  The score was 2-2, He reversed Debien to make it 4-2, then the ref stopped the match, and the App State coach challenged that it was an escape and a takedown, but he was overruled and only a reversal was awarded.  However, somehow Debien was given 1 point, making the score 4-3.  He then escaped in the same 2nd overtime, so going into the 3rd overtime, the score was 4-4.  I cannot figure out how Debien was awarded an escape, and if so, the score should have been 6-3, because they started Debien down again, which would have meant the App St. wrestler had a reversal, and then a take down.  

 

I am not knocking Debien, I just cannot make sense of the scoring in the 2nd OT period.

 

Thank you!

[russianbear]

Can someone please explain the scoring in the 2nd overtime of the Debien match? The App State wrestler started down. The score was 2-2, He reversed Debien to make it 4-2, then the ref stopped the match, and the App State coach challenged that it was an escape and a takedown, but he was overruled and only a reversal was awarded. However, somehow Debien was given 1 point, making the score 4-3. He then escaped in the same 2nd overtime, so going into the 3rd overtime, the score was 4-4. I cannot figure out how Debien was awarded an escape, and if so, the score should have been 6-3, because they started Debien down again, which would have meant the App St. wrestler had a reversal, and then a take down.

 

I am not knocking Debien, I just cannot make sense of the scoring in the 2nd OT period.

 

Thank you!

[russianbear]

From what I read (I didn't see the match), Debien was awarded a penalty for locked hands after the reversal, making it 3-4. He then escaped, making it 4-4. The next period, he was down and escaped making it 5-4. He then scored a takedown towards the end (or at the end) of the period making it 7-4.

 

Pantheon, you make good points. The only thing I would add, is there are still 32 man brackets (plus a few pigtail), no less, and the Southern Conference does get a few more wild cards than before. Congratulations to Chris Debien, Bryce Carr, and Jared Johnson. Hopefully this is the year we break through with some AA's.

Edited March 6, 2017 by russianbear

[maj]

From what I read (I didn't see the match), Debien was awarded a penalty for locked hands after the reversal, making it 3-4. He then escaped, making it 4-4. The next period, he was down and escaped making it 5-4. He then scored a takedown towards the end (or at the end) of the period making it 7-4.

 

Pantheon, you make good points. The only thing I would add, is there are still 32 man brackets (plus a few pigtail), no less, and the Southern Conference does get a few more wild cards than before. Congratulations to Chris Debien, Bryce Carr, and Jared Johnson. Hopefully this is the year we break through with some AA's.

I'm pulling for all three qualifiers but I don't think there is any getting around a 4th place in socon being anything other than dismal. If it turns out the socon winners and the guys UTC wrestlers lost to end up being all americans at ncaa's meaning we lost to really good, national caliber guys this week, I'll think a bit differently but right now it certainly appears to me the local program is stagnant and needs to be jump started. I have no illusions we will be competitive with top 10 teams but somewhere in the lower end of top 20 should be an attainable goal. I don't have the answers but I can't help but think this program should be doing better.

[ghouse]

The one bit of good news is that (from my estimation) the relative level of quality of competition has increased in the SoCon from what it was back when UTC was rather dominant.  What I mean by that is the following:

 

1) Even in the recent history of UTC dominating the conference, the conference winners were not earning a lot of AA honors or necessarily making deep runs into the NCAA tournament consistently.  Yes they happened but I think that they were the exception rather than the rule.

2) There are now several other teams in the conference that are producing wrestlers at the level mentioned above.  Gardner-Webb, Campbell, Appalchian State, and possibly others are now consistently producing wrestlers on the level that UTC used to be the only team consistently producing.  By that I mean wrestlers who can make a good run at NCAA's.

 

That said, it doesn't necessarily mean good things for UTC.  What I see is that the rest of the conference is catching up to where they used to be.  Of course the old adage that a rising tide raises all ships can apply here.  It means that the kids UTC produces who can win the SoCon are that much more prepared for the tougher matches at the NCAA tournament.

 

I doubt that there are too many coming out of the conference that I would pick with a high likelihood to make the blood round at NCAA's but I sure hope there are... it is good for wrestling in the general region if there are.

 

Echoing Maj's point, not sure what the expectation from the leadership at UTC is of the program... being dominant in the conference has gotten tougher but that doesn't mean they shouldn't necessarily be striving for it.  Will they put the resources in play to make that happen?  Are they hoping to be a "player" in the conference and still pull the occasional AA?

Edited March 6, 2017 by ghouse

[HCWCCoachV]

Heath redshirted 8th ranked Scottie Boykin and 14th ranked Mike Pongratz and had to suspend the conference MVP at 157. That's three NCAA qualifiers from last year that weren't wrestling this year. They would have probably won conference if he wrestled those guys this year, and next year with Pongo and Scottie back in the line-up they will be right back in the conversation to win the conference. 

Edited March 7, 2017 by HCWCCoachV

[maj]

Heath redshirted 8th ranked Scottie Boykin and 14th ranked Mike Pongratz and had to suspend the conference MVP at 157. That's three NCAA qualifiers from last year that weren't wrestling this year. They would have probably won conference if he wrestled those guys this year, and next year with Pongo and Scottie back in the line-up they will be right back in the conversation to win the conference. 

 

Hope you are correct, looking forward to seeing these guys next year.

 

Just out of curiosity , what do you see happening if next year looks like this year and don't make top 3 in socon ?

[HCWCCoachV]

Hope you are correct, looking forward to seeing these guys next year.

 

Just out of curiosity , what do you see happening if next year looks like this year and don't make top 3 in socon ?

I don't think it's my job to predict what would happen if that happened again next year. I think Heath does a great job and there is no doubt the kids love him because of his ability to build relationships with kids so I would really hope they wouldn't let him go because of a couple rough years. If it was a consistent issue over several years I would understand but with the success that UTC has had recently has a lot to do with the kids that were there but also a lot to do with Heath so obviously he is doing something right but UTC isn't Ohio State, Penn State, OK State where they can redshirt 2 guys and lose another and still be able to perform like they could with those guys in the line up. And even those teams, when they lose guys or have to sit guys for different reasons you can tell it effects their teams performance so why is it so alarming to fans of UTC that when we lose 3 guys that would have more than likely won their weight class at conference that we don't do as well at the conference tournament? Every team in every sport has a year that they don't do as well as others and when that happens you can't just throw all the success out the window and clean house. 

[maj]

I don't think it's my job to predict what would happen if that happened again next year. I think Heath does a great job and there is no doubt the kids love him because of his ability to build relationships with kids so I would really hope they wouldn't let him go because of a couple rough years. If it was a consistent issue over several years I would understand but with the success that UTC has had recently has a lot to do with the kids that were there but also a lot to do with Heath so obviously he is doing something right but UTC isn't Ohio State, Penn State, OK State where they can redshirt 2 guys and lose another and still be able to perform like they could with those guys in the line up. And even those teams, when they lose guys or have to sit guys for different reasons you can tell it effects their teams performance so why is it so alarming to fans of UTC that when we lose 3 guys that would have more than likely won their weight class at conference that we don't do as well at the conference tournament? Every team in every sport has a year that they don't do as well as others and when that happens you can't just throw all the success out the window and clean house. 

 

Thoughtful response.

 

I wasn't suggesting a total purge of the existing staff and I am in total agreement , we are not and likely will not be competing with some of the top 5 teams you mentioned, ever. That said I am concerned our local bar may be a bit low, a top 25 and 1st or second in the socon should be a bare minimum expectation each and every year. If as you noted we get a couple of ranked guys and a few others step it up cracking the top 20 should not be too far fetched.

[Bump11]

Congrats to Debien. Hopefully he can put together a good NCAA's and make a run!