TSSAA State Tournament Officiating

[RollingThunder]

I was in attendance for a few days of the state tournament and watched the rest of the games on NFHS.  In some games the officiating was really poor - not in the sense that it changed the outcome of the game, I don't think that is fair to say.  But it significantly lowered the quality of basketball played.  Here are some of my biggest observations:

• Communication - a number of referees refuse to communicate what happened, especially to coaches.  One coach said in a post game press conference he was never given an explanation for why technical fouls were issued.  There needs to be mutual respect and the ability to communicate, there is at every other level
• Post play - block/charge calls are the most difficult calls in basketball but there were MANY instances where all the defender does is fall down...I can think of 3 or 4 instances specifically where the offensive player dribbled away from the basket, the defender pushes off and falls down, and offensive foul is called.  We will never see decent post play return with that type of officiating
• Inconsistency/Chaotic calls - in some games there would be 10 fouls called in first 3 min, none rest of half, and it would be sporadic. 3rd foul called on team's best player who was on the other end and none of the officials could correct.  By the second half, every time a whistle blew all 10 players stopped and looked at the ref because they literally had no idea what the call would be.  There was no consistency or predictability and in 4 or 5 games you could see some of the best players stop playing defense because there was no way to know what you could or couldn't do.  In a few end of game situations with one team pressing there were crazy calls and not one but like 4 or 5

There's 350+ schools in the state, refereeing is difficult, thankless, and not worth what they get paid.  But this is the state tournament, the best of the best, which makes it clear that some of these things are what the TSSAA wants and rewards.  The issue to me is leadership - these refs could make the games much better for the kids and the fans if they were trained and under the leadership of someone that's done it in college and understands the need for mutual respect, letting the players play, and its about the kids.

[tradertwo]

3 hours ago, RollingThunder said:

I was in attendance for a few days of the state tournament and watched the rest of the games on NFHS.  In some games the officiating was really poor - not in the sense that it changed the outcome of the game, I don't think that is fair to say.  But it significantly lowered the quality of basketball played.  Here are some of my biggest observations:

• Communication - a number of referees refuse to communicate what happened, especially to coaches.  One coach said in a post game press conference he was never given an explanation for why technical fouls were issued.  There needs to be mutual respect and the ability to communicate, there is at every other level
• Post play - block/charge calls are the most difficult calls in basketball but there were MANY instances where all the defender does is fall down...I can think of 3 or 4 instances specifically where the offensive player dribbled away from the basket, the defender pushes off and falls down, and offensive foul is called.  We will never see decent post play return with that type of officiating
• Inconsistency/Chaotic calls - in some games there would be 10 fouls called in first 3 min, none rest of half, and it would be sporadic. 3rd foul called on team's best player who was on the other end and none of the officials could correct.  By the second half, every time a whistle blew all 10 players stopped and looked at the ref because they literally had no idea what the call would be.  There was no consistency or predictability and in 4 or 5 games you could see some of the best players stop playing defense because there was no way to know what you could or couldn't do.  In a few end of game situations with one team pressing there were crazy calls and not one but like 4 or 5

There's 350+ schools in the state, refereeing is difficult, thankless, and not worth what they get paid.  But this is the state tournament, the best of the best, which makes it clear that some of these things are what the TSSAA wants and rewards.  The issue to me is leadership - these refs could make the games much better for the kids and the fans if they were trained and under the leadership of someone that's done it in college and understands the need for mutual respect, letting the players play, and its about the kids.

I'll wholeheartedly agree and add that there was no consistency at all...if the officials would just establish what would be/would not be called in any particular game and call the end of games the same as the beginning, the players would adjust their play to the calling. It's a real problem when body blocking a dribbler or hand checking that resembles a stiff-arm by Derrick Henry isn't called at all in quarter 1, then in the third quarter the same player is called for a blocking foul while retreating from the dribbler and is run over. Now the player (all the players) has no idea what is allowed and what isn't. Same on offense with charges/blocks too...players encouraged to invite contact if the defender isn't set all year gets three offensive fouls when little contact is there, or the defender is clearly not in position. An ideal ref calls the game in such a way that you don't remember them being present, yet keeps the game from getting rough. From a players perspective, they should never "think" about what they are allowed before they get a whistle...they've played the game long enough to be acclimated to what is/isn't a foul without actually having to be mentally in the moment worrying about the officials.

[TrickyD]

The game they play now days is hard to call from a referee standpoint. The game has gotten so physical you can call at least one foul every possession. Don’t even get me started on all the walks and carrying of the ball. These kids now days couldn’t play the game I played 40 years ago just my thoughts

[BigOrangeBaller]

I think from what I have heard from some decent officials about why they don't get high profile regular season games, much less state tournament games is because their mechanics isn't the old "bird dog" type that Mr. Menees looks for in an official. Now, I understand that some of that stuff is important, but just because someone can call a foul and stand like a statue in doing so with my hands in the right position doesn't mean that it was the right call. I think that it is time that the officials that don't make the games about them and do/try to do a decent job of getting the calls right and communicating with those involved should start getting those important regular season games and state tournament games. Just my 2 cents... 

[Yellowstone]

Whenever you guys figure out that officiating is not MERIT based.....you will be much better off. 

[tradertwo]

21 hours ago, TrickyD said:

The game they play now days is hard to call from a referee standpoint. The game has gotten so physical you can call at least one foul every possession. Don’t even get me started on all the walks and carrying of the ball. These kids now days couldn’t play the game I played 40 years ago just my thoughts

And every bit of that is in the official's hands. Players play the way that they are allowed to play...if the officiating were as it was 40 years ago, the players would have to adapt. Jus' sayin'.

[Doc931]

On 3/24/2023 at 9:53 AM, BigOrangeBaller said:

I think from what I have heard from some decent officials about why they don't get high profile regular season games, much less state tournament games is because their mechanics isn't the old "bird dog" type that Mr. Menees looks for in an official. Now, I understand that some of that stuff is important, but just because someone can call a foul and stand like a statue in doing so with my hands in the right position doesn't mean that it was the right call. I think that it is time that the officials that don't make the games about them and do/try to do a decent job of getting the calls right and communicating with those involved should start getting those important regular season games and state tournament games. Just my 2 cents... 

Yes spot on brother. Having been a ref its the reason I went across state lines to call. They want you to look robotic and not use college mechanics. They are stuck behind times. They are more worried about facial hair etc than can you call a game.  There is one association in particular that is straight up nepotism and have lost countless numbers of officials because of which. This association has a handful of really good officials but they never make it because they dont call the game the old school way. " Thats how its always been" is there favorite line but those are words of a dying organization you have to be willing to adapt. 86 fouls in two games for one of the officials that called in at the state tournament is awful. 

TSSAA you have a major issue when it comes to officiating. They have no class room training or court sessions bringing in college officials to teach. Anyone shouldn't be allowed to just sign up and get games and stop placing 1st year refs on varsity games but more importantly district games. Coaches should be allowed to talk and ask questions and not be told they have to take a timeout to talk to you. If you want better refs up the pay, stop playing the good ole boy game, and stop getting worked up about using college signals....

[crazzyness]

On 3/24/2023 at 10:53 AM, BigOrangeBaller said:

I think from what I have heard from some decent officials about why they don't get high profile regular season games, much less state tournament games is because their mechanics isn't the old "bird dog" type that Mr. Menees looks for in an official. Now, I understand that some of that stuff is important, but just because someone can call a foul and stand like a statue in doing so with my hands in the right position doesn't mean that it was the right call. I think that it is time that the officials that don't make the games about them and do/try to do a decent job of getting the calls right and communicating with those involved should start getting those important regular season games and state tournament games. Just my 2 cents... 

Yeah, the sooner folks realize that MOST the officials in the higher profile games are there because they are:

1) butt kissers

2) yes men

3) part of the good 'ol boy clique

And not because of their actual ability, then everything would make much more sense to them. Rules knowledge and hustle are secondary to politics. And this culture is promoted from the very top down. 

 

Also, they'd get much better consistency in the State Tournament if they let officials familiar with one another work games together, instead of just throwing 3 random fellas from different ends of the state on the court. 

Edited March 29, 2023 by crazzyness

[TryNotToSuck]

On 3/27/2023 at 11:05 AM, Doc931 said:

Yes spot on brother. Having been a ref its the reason I went across state lines to call. They want you to look robotic and not use college mechanics. They are stuck behind times. They are more worried about facial hair etc than can you call a game.  There is one association in particular that is straight up nepotism and have lost countless numbers of officials because of which. This association has a handful of really good officials but they never make it because they dont call the game the old school way. " Thats how its always been" is there favorite line but those are words of a dying organization you have to be willing to adapt. 86 fouls in two games for one of the officials that called in at the state tournament is awful. 

TSSAA you have a major issue when it comes to officiating. They have no class room training or court sessions bringing in college officials to teach. Anyone shouldn't be allowed to just sign up and get games and stop placing 1st year refs on varsity games but more importantly district games. Coaches should be allowed to talk and ask questions and not be told they have to take a timeout to talk to you. If you want better refs up the pay, stop playing the good ole boy game, and stop getting worked up about using college signals....

I 100% agree with this. The High School basketball mechanics are very robotic and has way too much "pausing" when an official gives a signal. I love it when the NBA referees gives their signals because it basically demonstrates what happened during a play. The football mechanics are just as bad. They don't want this or that to happen with fingers/hand signals, and they don't want to adopt the college mechanics. It's frustrating to see.

[tradertwo]

On 3/28/2023 at 2:46 PM, crazzyness said:

Yeah, the sooner folks realize that MOST the officials in the higher profile games are there because they are:

1) butt kissers

2) yes men

3) part of the good 'ol boy clique

And not because of their actual ability, then everything would make much more sense to them. Rules knowledge and hustle are secondary to politics. And this culture is promoted from the very top down. 

 

Also, they'd get much better consistency in the State Tournament if they let officials familiar with one another work games together, instead of just throwing 3 random fellas from different ends of the state on the court. 

I agree with everything in this post but having said that, if I'm going to gripe about the bad ones I'll give some props to a good one from my neck of the woods... I was shocked to see Keith Wish calling in the girls tourney. When I noticed that he was on the floor before the game I felt kind of bad for him...he's a good dude and has been a good official in the past, but moved into a high profile management job a few years back and left calling games behind (or so I thought). I lost track of him for a few years, but he evidently still calls games someplace, because here he was calling in the tournament. Trying not to write a book, so I'll just say that when the game was over I was impressed.... he never tried to be the center of attention, and I didn't see a call that I thought he missed. Wish (no pun intended) that they were all like him.