Cleveland vs McCallie Dual: Who wins at their best?

[FrecoFanatic]

@ohreally15 what is your justification for some of these picks? Here are some facts to consider:

You have Lane pinning Cordero, but they wrestled this year and Cordero beat Lane by decision at the who’s number one event.

You have Connell beating Maughon, but they wrestled this year in the dual and Maughon beat Connell 14 - 2.

You have Gentle pinning Russell, but Russell is a returning state finalist who placed high at the Carnahan, Knockout, and Powerade tournaments this year. Gentle is good but did not even wrestle at a legit National Tournament this season.

The dual could end up being close (and any scenario is possible), but I don’t understand how these matches you picked go from being wins for Cleveland in actual matches this year to being decisive bonus wins for McCallie all of a sudden (especially the Maughon match since he beat that kid 14 - 2).

[FrecoFanatic]

Cleveland vs. McCallie (Hypothetical)

106: Cordero dec. Lane (3 - 0)

113: Walker dec. Ritchie (6 - 0)

120: Maughon maj. dec. Connell (10 - 0)

126: Bosken maj. dec. Williams (14 - 0)

132: Villers dec. Rice (14 - 3)

138: Congdon dec. Ledbetter (17 - 3)

144: Morgan dec. York (17 - 6)

150: Schuft dec. Ryan (20 - 6)

157: Fowler fall Voiles (26 - 6)

165: Fowler fall Cross (32 - 6)

175: Harold dec. French (35 - 6)

190: Syzmeborski dec. McMahan (38 - 6)

215: Gentle dec. Moore (38 - 9)

285: Russell dec. Gentle (41 - 9)

Cleveland 41    McCallie 9

Note:

I can see McCallie possibly flipping 4 matches. If they flipped 4 matches, then the final score would be 29 - 21. I think that is very unlikely, but certainly possible. 

 

Edited February 13 by FrecoFanatic

[cobrakid8]

12 hours ago, FrecoFanatic said:

@ohreally15 what is your justification for some of these picks? Here are some facts to consider:

You have Lane pinning Cordero, but they wrestled this year and Cordero beat Lane by decision at the who’s number one event.

You have Connell beating Maughon, but they wrestled this year in the dual and Maughon beat Connell 14 - 2.

You have Gentle pinning Russell, but Russell is a returning state finalist who placed high at the Carnahan, Knockout, and Powerade tournaments this year. Gentle is good but did not even wrestle at a legit National Tournament this season.

The dual could end up being close (and any scenario is possible), but I don’t understand how these matches you picked go from being wins for Cleveland in actual matches this year to being decisive bonus wins for McCallie all of a sudden (especially the Maughon match since he beat that kid 14 - 2).

Yeah I don’t see most of those matchups happening at all. We will get a better idea this weekend of how Gentle and Russell would go since Gentle lost to the number 17th ranked heavy in the county Levy and Russell lost to Daniels of Colquitt County. They should face off in the finals of 7A 285. Carson lost 8-4 to Levy and Russel lost 4-1 to Daniels. Sucks that we don’t have a head to head for them. 

[FrecoFanatic]

2 hours ago, cobrakid8 said:

Yeah I don’t see most of those matchups happening at all. We will get a better idea this weekend of how Gentle and Russell would go since Gentle lost to the number 17th ranked heavy in the county Levy and Russell lost to Daniels of Colquitt County. They should face off in the finals of 7A 285. Carson lost 8-4 to Levy and Russel lost 4-1 to Daniels. Sucks that we don’t have a head to head for them. 

I obviously picked Tyson because I am biased. The main point I was trying to make is that picking Gentle by fall seems very unlikely. Tyson also beat Rob Atwood this year who is a 3 x State Champ in TN. That match is most likely a decision one way or another. And, to your other point, I was also pointing out some of those matchups actually have already been wrestled this season. If the kids wrestled, you can’t just give the kid that won a loss this time without justification. Cordero beat Lane in a close match. I can see that one flipping for sure, but to pick a kid to flip a match after losing 14 - 2 seems a little illogical. The 120 match was not close. I had this discussion in another thread with a McCallie dad and he picked Voiles to beat Fowler in a hypothetical. Zero logic behind that. McCallie could definitely make it super close if Lane and Ritchie were to flip matches, and Gentle was to win, but it would take a lot for them to get enough wins or enough bonus to take the dual this year. I think they just don’t matchup well against us. That is not taking anything away from them. They are very good. But a dual between two good teams is all about matchups.

[cobrakid8]

4 hours ago, FrecoFanatic said:

I obviously picked Tyson because I am biased. The main point I was trying to make is that picking Gentle by fall seems very unlikely. Tyson also beat Rob Atwood this year who is a 3 x State Champ in TN. That match is most likely a decision one way or another. And, to your other point, I was also pointing out some of those matchups actually have already been wrestled this season. If the kids wrestled, you can’t just give the kid that won a loss this time without justification. Cordero beat Lane in a close match. I can see that one flipping for sure, but to pick a kid to flip a match after losing 14 - 2 seems a little illogical. The 120 match was not close. I had this discussion in another thread with a McCallie dad and he picked Voiles to beat Fowler in a hypothetical. Zero logic behind that. McCallie could definitely make it super close if Lane and Ritchie were to flip matches, and Gentle was to win, but it would take a lot for them to get enough wins or enough bonus to take the dual this year. I think they just don’t matchup well against us. That is not taking anything away from them. They are very good. But a dual between two good teams is all about matchups.

I don’t see a way Russell wins that, he might have beaten Atwood, but Atwood is a 215lber not a heavy and Levy now shows as number 14 in the country at Heavy. I love Atwood but he’s not a top ranked wrestler in the nation at heavy like Levy is. As far as the others, I don’t think it would be all that close a dual, I think Cleveland wins it pretty easily!

[Rasslinking]

17 minutes ago, cobrakid8 said:

I don’t see a way Russell wins that, he might have beaten Atwood, but Atwood is a 215lber not a heavy and Levy now shows as number 14 in the country at Heavy. I love Atwood but he’s not a top ranked wrestler in the nation at heavy like Levy is. As far as the others, I don’t think it would be all that close a dual, I think Cleveland wins it pretty easily!

Dont see a way he wins?

He placed at Powerade didn't he?

I would think he would have to be skillfull enough to beat a quality kid if hes placing there.

Yes Gentile had a 8-4 match with Levy..... but didn't score an offensive point..... and per FloRankings..... he is not ranked (yes I know hes tough, yes i know he won 16U Fargo)

Not sure what rankings you saw 14 on.

[cobrakid8]

2 hours ago, Rasslinking said:

Dont see a way he wins?

He placed at Powerade didn't he?

I would think he would have to be skillfull enough to beat a quality kid if hes placing there.

Yes Gentile had a 8-4 match with Levy..... but didn't score an offensive point..... and per FloRankings..... he is not ranked (yes I know hes tough, yes i know he won 16U Fargo)

Not sure what rankings you saw 14 on.

https://highschool.si.com/wrestling/2024/02/02/national-top-25-high-school-wrestling-rankings-for-every-weight-class-2-3-2024
 

he didn’t beat anyone ranked to place at Powerade, Carnahan or Knockout. 
 

also Levy was ranked a bunch of times on Flo(started pre-season at 15 and moved out after Dec 13th), didn’t lose that I have seen, yet moved out of the rankings there which is kind of weird. We will still get an idea this weekend on if he wins his weight class in GA State, since most likely he will have to beat the guy down at knockout that won 4-1(no offensive point as you would say from Russell).

[FrecoFanatic]

12 hours ago, cobrakid8 said:

https://highschool.si.com/wrestling/2024/02/02/national-top-25-high-school-wrestling-rankings-for-every-weight-class-2-3-2024
 

he didn’t beat anyone ranked to place at Powerade, Carnahan or Knockout. 
 

also Levy was ranked a bunch of times on Flo(started pre-season at 15 and moved out after Dec 13th), didn’t lose that I have seen, yet moved out of the rankings there which is kind of weird. We will still get an idea this weekend on if he wins his weight class in GA State, since most likely he will have to beat the guy down at knockout that won 4-1(no offensive point as you would say from Russell).

Gentle also has not beaten a ranked wrestler this season (maybe ever). @Rasslinking is just pointing out that an 8 - 4 loss to the one tough guy Gentle has wrestled all year is not justification to say Tyson has no chance. And @cobrakid8 if you are going to say Tyson has not beat a Flo ranked guy this season, you have to also point out that Gentle has not either. Powerade, Carnahan, and Knockout are tougher than just about any state tournament in any state, and they are certainly tougher than the one tournament that Gentle went to (Drennan Memorial). Ranked guys or not, to place at all three in one season is a freaking impressive accomplishment. The fields at those tournaments were loaded with ranked teams and there is not an easy match in any round. Both guys are strong and athletic. I just think Tyson has a little more wrestling skill and is more polished with the tough schedule he wrestled this year. For that reason I think he wins by decision in a close match.

Edited February 14 by FrecoFanatic

[CaptainGuru]

On 2/13/2024 at 1:29 AM, FrecoFanatic said:

Cleveland vs. McCallie (Hypothetical)

106: Cordero dec. Lane (3 - 0)

113: Walker dec. Ritchie (6 - 0)

120: Maughon maj. dec. Connell (10 - 0)

126: Bosken maj. dec. Williams (14 - 0)

132: Villers dec. Rice (14 - 3)

138: Congdon dec. Ledbetter (17 - 3)

144: Morgan dec. York (17 - 6)

150: Schuft dec. Ryan (20 - 6)

157: Fowler fall Voiles (26 - 6)

165: Fowler fall Cross (32 - 6)

175: Harold dec. French (35 - 6)

190: Syzmeborski dec. McMahan (38 - 6)

215: Gentle dec. Moore (38 - 9)

285: Russell dec. Gentle (41 - 9)

Cleveland 41    McCallie 9

Note:

I can see McCallie possibly flipping 4 matches. If they flipped 4 matches, then the final score would be 29 - 21. I think that is very unlikely, but certainly possible. 

 

Tybo Russell wrestles for Cleveland Raiders and is sponsored by Powerade. He is real good. I guarantee it. Do you want to bet me? I am Captain Guru and I approve this message.

Edited February 14 by CaptainGuru

[cobrakid8]

9 hours ago, FrecoFanatic said:

Gentle also has not beaten a ranked wrestler this season (maybe ever). @Rasslinking is just pointing out that an 8 - 4 loss to the one tough guy Gentle has wrestled all year is not justification to say Tyson has no chance. And @cobrakid8 if you are going to say Tyson has not beat a Flo ranked guy this season, you have to also point out that Gentle has not either. Powerade, Carnahan, and Knockout are tougher than just about any state tournament in any state, and they are certainly tougher than the one tournament that Gentle went to (Drennan Memorial). Ranked guys or not, to place at all three in one season is a freaking impressive accomplishment. The fields at those tournaments were loaded with ranked teams and there is not an easy match in any round. Both guys are strong and athletic. I just think Tyson has a little more wrestling skill and is more polished with the tough schedule he wrestled this year. For that reason I think he wins by decision in a close match.

I mean if those tournaments had been full of ranked wrestlers at heavy yeah I would say they have been tough, but the only ranked wrestler either Russell or Gentle has wrestled this year was Gentle with Levy who also won a 16U Fargo title. He didn’t get pinned by the guy and made it the entire match, that same guy will wrestle a guy that beat Russell this year at one of your mentioned tournaments 4-1. Also to be sleeping on him Davis from Soddy most likely beats both. I mean Russell beat Crowder 10-6 at Powerade(which crowder also placed at) while Davis pinned crowder while he was already beating him 8-1. But alas, I still think Gentle beats Russell handily but you all can think whatever you want, I mean he got stuck by the number 1 ranked guy at 215  earlier this season and also another guy from state of Tn. 

[Whoweft]

8 hours ago, FrecoFanatic said:

Gentle also has not beaten a ranked wrestler this season (maybe ever). @Rasslinking is just pointing out that an 8 - 4 loss to the one tough guy Gentle has wrestled all year is not justification to say Tyson has no chance. And @cobrakid8 if you are going to say Tyson has not beat a Flo ranked guy this season, you have to also point out that Gentle has not either. Powerade, Carnahan, and Knockout are tougher than just about any state tournament in any state, and they are certainly tougher than the one tournament that Gentle went to (Drennan Memorial). Ranked guys or not, to place at all three in one season is a freaking impressive accomplishment. The fields at those tournaments were loaded with ranked teams and there is not an easy match in any round. Both guys are strong and athletic. I just think Tyson has a little more wrestling skill and is more polished with the tough schedule he wrestled this year. For that reason I think he wins by decision in a close match.

I am sure if Cleveland came to Drennan or McCallie Invitational, Tyson could have added a couple more fourth and fifth place trophies to his list of impressive accomplishments.  

If Tyson wrestled Carson Gentle, it would ruin him.  You would not be able to look at him the same. 

[FrecoFanatic]

1 hour ago, cobrakid8 said:

I mean if those tournaments had been full of ranked wrestlers at heavy yeah I would say they have been tough, but the only ranked wrestler either Russell or Gentle has wrestled this year was Gentle with Levy who also won a 16U Fargo title. He didn’t get pinned by the guy and made it the entire match, that same guy will wrestle a guy that beat Russell this year at one of your mentioned tournaments 4-1. Also to be sleeping on him Davis from Soddy most likely beats both. I mean Russell beat Crowder 10-6 at Powerade(which crowder also placed at) while Davis pinned crowder while he was already beating him 8-1. But alas, I still think Gentle beats Russell handily but you all can think whatever you want, I mean he got stuck by the number 1 ranked guy at 215  earlier this season and also another guy from state of Tn. 

Lol. You must be talking about the Blackman pre-season. That was our JV kid @cobrakid8. They put him in the wrong pool and to save us from a long delay to redo brackets, we sent our JV kid during Tyson’s matches and Tyson during our JV kid’s matches. Go look up that nice win 3 - 0 day Jessie Owenby had on Trackwrestling with a big win over Rob Atwood. That was Tyson. Tyson’s only losses on the season are at Carnahan, Knockout, and Powerade. The Father Ryan tournament does not compare to Powerade. I made a pick. You made pick. I am not the one who said the other guy has zero chance. You were. And your logic is Gentle LOST to a ranked kid 8 - 4 and somehow that means more than placing at 3 of the very toughest tournaments you can go to in the country. You keep spitting out that Tyson has not beat a ranked opponent, yet you will not acknowledge that Gentle has not either? That makes zero sense. If you are going to apply that standard, then apply it to both. Gentle is very good and may well win, but don’t say Tyson has zero chance. Also, you are talking about the Atwood and Crowder wins like those don’t have any weight because Tyson wrestles heavyweight. Bro, he has been 225 all year. He is not some 285, or even 250 pound kid wrestling 215 lb guys. When they wrestled, they were the same weight.