Tennessee DI All-Americans

[cbg]

The facts are very simple; when The State of Tennessee had collegiate wrestling programs at University of Tennessee, Tennessee Tech, Middle Tennessee State University, Carson Newman, Sewanee and University of Tennessee at Chattanooga many Tennessee high school wrestlers filtered through those programs.  Almost all of those coaches would go from town to town having clinics for the local kids.  These clinics raised the technique level but it also allowed the coaches to recruit the kids at the clinics.  The end result was that many of those college wrestlers became high school coaches and most of the officials also competed on those teams.  I still say that both coaching and officiating was much better during the 70’s, 80’s and 90’s due to so many guys wrestling for the local Tennessee colleges.

[ghouse]

I will say this much.  This is actually a great topic and debate. 

I have had the benefit of getting to have this discussion with several kids over the years.  It isn't a simple debate, nor a simple choice.  In my opinion, if you really look at it, I think ocean and a few of the others are actually on to a really good point here.

I have coached guys who have gone on to wrestle at all levels (some with a level of success and others who did drop out quickly) of collegiate athletics and some on the international / Olympic ladder.  i think it is vitally important for most good coaches to be having the types of conversation that ocean and others are bringing up here with athletes.  I recall vividly talking with one of our wrestlers about whether he should move to the OTC or continue wrestling in high school after his sophomore year... that was a lot of conversations about goals, stages of life, what do you want short-term and long-term, etc.  Thankfully he had plenty of good people to talk to.   Anyone speaking in absolutes here is probably off-base or not thinking very logically.

To me, the key question has to be... do you want to continue wrestling or do you have a goal (dream, etc.) of wrestling DI and that is the only thing that will fulfill you.  If you want to be successful (starting time, placing, AA, etc.) at whatever level you choose to pursue then you better understand what that is going to entail.  If you are going to go and wrestle at the DI level and hope to have true success, then you better be ready to understand that wrestling is going to be treated like a very demanding job.  You will need to make just about everything else in life subservient to wrestling and what you have to do there... and yes for many this also includes academics.  Many of the DI programs they might get into might not be the perfect fit from other aspects of what they want and they may have to sacrifice (especially if not a top-end recruit) to achieve their DI dream.  Very few can balance high level academics and the rigors of a top-end DI wrestling program.  If that is the absolute desire for the athlete, then go after it and chase it to your fullest... even if they are one of the ones that aren't likely to "make" it or have high level success based on where they currently are... and yes you can sometimes overcome that, but let's be honest blue-chip recruits will pan out far more often than college coaches develop someone to that level who was far below it. 

If the athlete doesn't have their heart set on DI or just wants to continue wrestling, then they really should be looking at what level of wrestling will help them find a school that is the right fit for them.  They need to be looking at academics, academic curriculum options, graduation job placement rates in their desired field, financial aide packages, wrestling team success and culture, activities / lifestyle they want to pursue outside of school (big city or country, etc.), etc. in order to find a place that will help them thrive and mature into the young person that we all hope they become.  Plenty of kids know it is DI only for them while many others find what they are looking for (in all aspects) at DII, DII, NAIA, etc.  Nothing wrong with that... they are making the choice that is best for them.

A coach that is strictly pushing an athlete to "get into the best (wrestling) program they can" to indirectly quote someone else, may not be giving the athlete the best advice... they may actually be hurting them in the long (and short) run.  Coaches are here to guide student athletes to a very tumultuous time in life, not simply make them the best athletes possible and put them in the "best" athletic programs.

Edited March 26 by ghouse

[ghouse]

Oh, and I can't remember who said it earlier but whomever mentioned that the early to late 2000's crop is still our best in terms of college talent is 100% spot on.  The new crop may get there at some point but you can't argue with the data.  There were some very special TN wrestlers in that group that got it done at UTC and at other schools (Missouri, Cornell, West Point).  For goodness sakes you even have at least one in there that made a US Senior World Team.  That is getting it done on the absolute highest level, period.

We have had very highly touted TN wrestlers come through since then who didn't accomplish on the same level for whatever reason.  We may see another group that gets there but none have come close to achieving what that group did collegiately.  

Not to mention that there were a few from that timeframe who were finding success at the "lower levels" of NCAA wrestling as well.

I would absolutely say that TN wrestling as a whole has grown by leaps and bounds from that period forward, but I don't think there is any argument to say that our top end talent has achieved at the same level.  Hopefully some do in the future.

Edited March 26 by ghouse

[BraydenlPalmer]

I never get on here and don’t respond to anything, but I got on here today to make a post about me trying to set up camps and clinics. I saw this and was disappointed and felt like responding.

 First off, I've seen many of these posts before about talking about how disappointing it is that we don't have a Tennessee All-American almost every year on some sort of social media. Second, almost all of you haven't been a Division 1 All-American or even wrestled Division 1 at all. It was Cody's first year, and he lost two studs. He'll be back and all American, maybe even a couple times, no doubt in my mind. The next thing is, who cares if kids go to Division 1? If they can afford it, why not go chase your dreams? The only thing I'd say is don't go into a crazy debt to wrestle in college because there are other things that are more important in life, but if you can afford it and a D1 team wants it, go for it. It just annoys me when people act like it's an easy thing or all Tennessee guys are a disappointment each year because they weren't an All American when we are battling through so many injuries and I'm destroying my body and can't even stand up before weigh-ins because the weight cut is so hard on my body. Granted, I shouldn't have wrestled at 125 at all, but I'm just using it as an example. We are giving it everything we have, and I'm sure the other Tennessee guys like Cody and Cooper where to. It's just a hard tournament with countless killers in each weight. We should celebrate any TN guy that gets the opportunity to wrestle Division 1 or any level in college because it's most of our dreams to do that, and we are just trying to chase them

[Appvol]

5 minutes ago, BraydenlPalmer said:

I never get on here and don’t respond to anything, but I got on here today to make a post about me trying to set up camps and clinics. I saw this and was disappointed and felt like responding.

 First off, I've seen many of these posts before about talking about how disappointing it is that we don't have a Tennessee All-American almost every year on some sort of social media. Second, almost all of you haven't been a Division 1 All-American or even wrestled Division 1 at all. It was Cody's first year, and he lost two studs. He'll be back and all American, maybe even a couple times, no doubt in my mind. The next thing is, who cares if kids go to Division 1? If they can afford it, why not go chase your dreams? The only thing I'd say is don't go into a crazy debt to wrestle in college because there are other things that are more important in life, but if you can afford it and a D1 team wants it, go for it. It just annoys me when people act like it's an easy thing or all Tennessee guys are a disappointment each year because they weren't an All American when we are battling through so many injuries and I'm destroying my body and can't even stand up before weigh-ins because the weight cut is so hard on my body. Granted, I shouldn't have wrestled at 125 at all, but I'm just using it as an example. We are giving it everything we have, and I'm sure the other Tennessee guys like Cody and Cooper where to. It's just a hard tournament with countless killers in each weight. We should celebrate any TN guy that gets the opportunity to wrestle Division 1 or any level in college because it's most of our dreams to do that, and we are just trying to chase them

Enjoyed watching you wrestle at the SoCons. I’m an App St fan and you had a really good tournament. One my good friends I wrestled with in high school son is going to App St. He probably want get any money. May never start but he wants to compete everyday and go through the grind. 

It was fun watching everyone pull against Campbell at the SoCons 
 

 

[WrestlingGod]

31 minutes ago, BraydenlPalmer said:

I never get on here and don’t respond to anything, but I got on here today to make a post about me trying to set up camps and clinics. I saw this and was disappointed and felt like responding.

 First off, I've seen many of these posts before about talking about how disappointing it is that we don't have a Tennessee All-American almost every year on some sort of social media. Second, almost all of you haven't been a Division 1 All-American or even wrestled Division 1 at all. It was Cody's first year, and he lost two studs. He'll be back and all American, maybe even a couple times, no doubt in my mind. The next thing is, who cares if kids go to Division 1? If they can afford it, why not go chase your dreams? The only thing I'd say is don't go into a crazy debt to wrestle in college because there are other things that are more important in life, but if you can afford it and a D1 team wants it, go for it. It just annoys me when people act like it's an easy thing or all Tennessee guys are a disappointment each year because they weren't an All American when we are battling through so many injuries and I'm destroying my body and can't even stand up before weigh-ins because the weight cut is so hard on my body. Granted, I shouldn't have wrestled at 125 at all, but I'm just using it as an example. We are giving it everything we have, and I'm sure the other Tennessee guys like Cody and Cooper where to. It's just a hard tournament with countless killers in each weight. We should celebrate any TN guy that gets the opportunity to wrestle Division 1 or any level in college because it's most of our dreams to do that, and we are just trying to chase them

100000% agree. Well said Brayden. 

[oceansize42]

1 hour ago, BraydenlPalmer said:

I never get on here and don’t respond to anything, but I got on here today to make a post about me trying to set up camps and clinics. I saw this and was disappointed and felt like responding.

 First off, I've seen many of these posts before about talking about how disappointing it is that we don't have a Tennessee All-American almost every year on some sort of social media. Second, almost all of you haven't been a Division 1 All-American or even wrestled Division 1 at all. It was Cody's first year, and he lost two studs. He'll be back and all American, maybe even a couple times, no doubt in my mind. The next thing is, who cares if kids go to Division 1? If they can afford it, why not go chase your dreams? The only thing I'd say is don't go into a crazy debt to wrestle in college because there are other things that are more important in life, but if you can afford it and a D1 team wants it, go for it. It just annoys me when people act like it's an easy thing or all Tennessee guys are a disappointment each year because they weren't an All American when we are battling through so many injuries and I'm destroying my body and can't even stand up before weigh-ins because the weight cut is so hard on my body. Granted, I shouldn't have wrestled at 125 at all, but I'm just using it as an example. We are giving it everything we have, and I'm sure the other Tennessee guys like Cody and Cooper where to. It's just a hard tournament with countless killers in each weight. We should celebrate any TN guy that gets the opportunity to wrestle Division 1 or any level in college because it's most of our dreams to do that, and we are just trying to chase them

You wrapped up a great college wrestling career so congratulations and enjoy wrestling "retirement".  

Also, I don't think anyone is disappointed, really I don't.  Don't misconstrue the talk of old guy (relatively) fans as being malicious.  Most of us simply enjoy the sport and get wrapped up in stuff we probably shouldn't. The talk isn't centered around the wrestlers themselves for the most part, although there is certainly the armchair QB in most all of us. For me, I'd like to see more kids go where they can have success. I admit, as I'm sure you read, I feel like some not small percentage are in over their head at the D1 level.  Again, I enjoyed watching you wrestle, unique style that befuddled many an opponent. 

A few questions if you don't mind.

1. What's your opinion on the situation, I certainly see from time to time, where a young man doesn't quite fit at the D1 level because he isn't prepared (and may never be) for the level of competition D1 presents? I'm asking because I know a few TN wrestlers over the last three to five years who have left early never to return to any type of wrestling.  It was D1 or bust, no consideration given to smaller schools.  Do you think more consideration should be given to small schools from some kids? Or just nope, if they want D1 then jump in and let the chips fall where they may?  Whatever the answer, I'm not arguing with ya, period.
2. Why did you wrestle 125 this year?  I have to admit I wondered, by choice or was there a specific injury?
3. Are you done? Any thoughts about continuing on?
4. Your favorite match?
5. Toughest opponent?
6. The GOAT pound for pound wrestler during your time as a collegiate wrestler?
7. What one or two pieces of advice would you offer to a freshmen collegiate wrestler (other than don't read coachT) ?

Edit: You and Cooper wrestling in NCAAs in the first round, what were the odds?  Sheesh.

Edited March 26 by oceansize42

[BraydenlPalmer]

21 minutes ago, oceansize42 said:

You wrapped up a great college wrestling career so congratulations and enjoy wrestling "retirement".  

Also, I don't think anyone is disappointed, really I don't.  Don't misconstrue the talk of old guy (relatively) fans as being malicious.  Most of us simply enjoy the sport and get wrapped up in stuff we probably shouldn't. The talk isn't centered around the wrestlers themselves for the most part, although there is certainly the armchair QB in most all of us. For me, I'd like to see more kids go where they can have success. I admit, as I'm sure you read, I feel like some not small percentage are in over their head at the D1 level.  Again, I enjoyed watching you wrestle, unique style that befuddled many an opponent. 

A few questions if you don't mind.

1. What's your opinion on the situation, I certainly see from time to time, where a young man doesn't quite fit at the D1 level because he isn't prepared (and may never be) for the level of competition D1 presents? I'm asking because I know a few TN wrestlers over the last three to five years who have left early never to return to any type of wrestling.  It was D1 or bust, no consideration given to smaller schools.  Do you think more consideration should be given to small schools from some kids? Or just nope, if they want D1 then jump in and let the chips fall where they may?  Whatever the answer, I'm not arguing with ya, period.
2. Why did you wrestle 125 this year?  I have to admit I wondered, by choice or was there a specific injury?
3. Are you done? Any thoughts about continuing on?
4. Your favorite match?
5. Toughest opponent?
6. The GOAT pound for pound wrestler during your time as a collegiate wrestler?

Edit: You and Cooper wrestling in NCAAs in the first round, what were the odds?  Sheesh.

1. For me, I'm a competitor and wouldn't want to sit behind and not be the starter, but some guys dream of wrestling at the D1 level and getting their degree, and I respect that wrestling is the end all; there are so many more important things than just a sport, so who cares, in my opinion? If they want to go D1 or any division, I respect it because, even if you're not a starter, it's not an easy thing to balance social life, wrestling, and school and get a degree. 

2. My goal was to be a national champion, and I thought I had a better chance at beating anyone at 125 over Vito. I tried to get right and get the weight down properly, but my body just never responded. I couldn't move my legs at all, and I felt so weak that I couldn't do anything. In all my losses, I never felt outclassed, but it felt like the scale was beating me, and that was disappointing. I want to move back up to 133, but it was too late for that, so I did everything I could, and without going into detail on some of the things that happened over the season, I'll just say don't cut weight because I was killing myself and my body was shutting down on me.

3. I want to coach. I've done a lot of camps and clinics last year and really enjoy coaching, and my plan is to coach. But you never know.

4. RBY was a two-time national champ, and I proved I could wrestle with him and showed myself how good I actually was, even though I lost 5-2.

5. RBY, he's fast!

6. Probably Gable 

[oceansize42]

11 minutes ago, BraydenlPalmer said:

1. For me, I'm a competitor and wouldn't want to sit behind and not be the starter, but some guys dream of wrestling at the D1 level and getting their degree, and I respect that wrestling is the end all; there are so many more important things than just a sport, so who cares, in my opinion? If they want to go D1 or any division, I respect it because, even if you're not a starter, it's not an easy thing to balance social life, wrestling, and school and get a degree. 

2. My goal was to be a national champion, and I thought I had a better chance at beating anyone at 125 over Vito. I tried to get right and get the weight down properly, but my body just never responded. I couldn't move my legs at all, and I felt so weak that I couldn't do anything. In all my losses, I never felt outclassed, but it felt like the scale was beating me, and that was disappointing. I want to move back up to 133, but it was too late for that, so I did everything I could, and without going into detail on some of the things that happened over the season, I'll just say don't cut weight because I was killing myself and my body was shutting down on me.

3. I want to coach. I've done a lot of camps and clinics last year and really enjoy coaching, and my plan is to coach. But you never know.

4. RBY was a two-time national champ, and I proved I could wrestle with him and showed myself how good I actually was, even though I lost 5-2.

5. RBY, he's fast!

6. Probably Gable 

Thanks for answers. As promised, I’ve got nothing. 

[BobCorker]

2 hours ago, BraydenlPalmer said:

I never get on here and don’t respond to anything, but I got on here today to make a post about me trying to set up camps and clinics. I saw this and was disappointed and felt like responding.

 First off, I've seen many of these posts before about talking about how disappointing it is that we don't have a Tennessee All-American almost every year on some sort of social media. Second, almost all of you haven't been a Division 1 All-American or even wrestled Division 1 at all. It was Cody's first year, and he lost two studs. He'll be back and all American, maybe even a couple times, no doubt in my mind. The next thing is, who cares if kids go to Division 1? If they can afford it, why not go chase your dreams? The only thing I'd say is don't go into a crazy debt to wrestle in college because there are other things that are more important in life, but if you can afford it and a D1 team wants it, go for it. It just annoys me when people act like it's an easy thing or all Tennessee guys are a disappointment each year because they weren't an All American when we are battling through so many injuries and I'm destroying my body and can't even stand up before weigh-ins because the weight cut is so hard on my body. Granted, I shouldn't have wrestled at 125 at all, but I'm just using it as an example. We are giving it everything we have, and I'm sure the other Tennessee guys like Cody and Cooper where to. It's just a hard tournament with countless killers in each weight. We should celebrate any TN guy that gets the opportunity to wrestle Division 1 or any level in college because it's most of our dreams to do that, and we are just trying to chase them

You might be surprised but some on this board did wrestle DI.  I don't believe anyone said they were disappointed in you.  You are one of the few that actually made it. You should be proud that you made it.  It was mentioned that everyone here knew you had DI potential. There are people who realize how tough it is just to start and to qualify.  I believe ocean made it clear that it takes a special person to do what you just did.  

With all of that said, I don't think it changes the points that have been made.  The vast majority of wrestlers in the United States should not wrestle D1. This includes TN.  Many, but not all, would be better served by wrestling at a lower level.  Those opinions are not based on you or what you did at UTC.  Those opinions are based on looking at stats from the last 60 years of college wrestling.  The DI attrition rate is very noticeable. The crux of the argument has been based around TN's attrition rate and how it relates to the progress the state has made. That leads to questions and discussion about what is best for most wrestlers.  I do not see where anyone claimed they were disappointed in Brayden Palmer.  I don't believe anyone here acted like it was easy; in fact, we have stated that the rigor has been unbearable for most. 

 

 

[BraydenlPalmer]

34 minutes ago, BobCorker said:

You might be surprised but some on this board did wrestle DI.  I don't believe anyone said they were disappointed in you.  You are one of the few that actually made it. You should be proud that you made it.  It was mentioned that everyone here knew you had DI potential. There are people who realize how tough it is just to start and to qualify.  I believe ocean made it clear that it takes a special person to do what you just did.  

With all of that said, I don't think it changes the points that have been made.  The vast majority of wrestlers in the United States should not wrestle D1. This includes TN.  Many, but not all, would be better served by wrestling at a lower level.  Those opinions are not based on you or what you did at UTC.  Those opinions are based on looking at stats from the last 60 years of college wrestling.  The DI attrition rate is very noticeable. The crux of the argument has been based around TN's attrition rate and how it relates to the progress the state has made. That leads to questions and discussion about what is best for most wrestlers.  I do not see where anyone claimed they were disappointed in Brayden Palmer.  I don't believe anyone here acted like it was easy; in fact, we have stated that the rigor has been unbearable for most. 

 

 

I’m not saying it in general; I’ve just seen it from past seasons, saying that Tennessee kids always disappoint at NCAAs, and all I was claiming is that it’s not an easy tournament in any division. I don't really care what people think because they don't know everything about me, and if you're an athlete and you do care about those things, you need to fix that lol. 

[TNCroCU]

Way late on this post, but I do believe that I want to at least weight in so to speak lol. I wrestled NAIA competed against some of the best wrestler over all a crossed the divisions and felt great about my college wrestling experience. I think people make the mistake in believe that wrestling some how gets easier as a sport at the smaller college divisions it doesn't the training is mostly the same. I have that on good authority from a coach who was a D1 all-American. it's more the commitment level of the competitors that is different. There is talented wrestlers that can go D1 at any level in the smaller division. sub in Sammy Shires for one he would have done fine on a DI team. He chose a work life ratio that suited him. It's not about talent it's commitment are you going to make training and studying the sport the center of your world cause that's what it takes: NO MATTER HOW TALATENTED BEFORE HAND YOU ARE.  If so then D1 is for you and striving for success at that level is for you like Mr. Palmer said it's what your willing to put in. Now coaches if you have a successful wrestler who fits that bill then by all means D1 is a great option they will see some success no matter how small, but if they are not that committed along with being talented and a killer and you know it then your doing them wrong. 

You don't have to tell athletes that you don't think they are D1 tell them to keep their options open to take all their visits to consider all the divisions regardless of their goals. college recruiting visits have you most times wrestle against their current wrestlers coaches and athletes  will find out real quick it's not easy no matter where you go. That way when they make their decision it's a sound one that's based on well rounded experiences. 

 

 BobCorker, and oceansize42 I believe what you are thinking is correct but for different reasons. TN wrestler's have the talent... it's a commitment level change. TN wrestlers aren't used to having to put themselves through the level of commitment required and kills them on the D1 level.  

 WrestlingGod, I agree you should push kids to pursue their dreams, but not at the cost of common sense period... we have to much of that going around this country already. Dreams can turn to poison when these wrestler are not educated on what it truly takes. In TN  a kid who understands wrestling to a high level can be successful with small amounts of hard work. They think their definition of hard work is enough for D1 that is the mistake not the "talent/understanding". 

Over-all though we do not celebrate NAIA,D2,D3, or Juco success in this state like other states do. GA/AL celebrates all it's college wrestlers success a crossed the  board no matter the division. Why? because it's hard... I have gone to all the divisions National championships let me tell you to be a all-American at any is impressive especially D2 or NAIA. those guys can scrap and not one of those AA's are an easy match. all of them were state placers or champs multiple times in their high school careers. does that at all sound easy to place at? TN does not give those guys enough credit or shout outs period. it's an over sight because of this D1 or it's less than meaningless   mentality on this site and in this state. GA/AL is better then us on the highest stage because they send guys to D2,NAIA,D3 ect. they come back understanding the sport better then their pervious coaches, and give back and that cycles to athletes readiness to go D1 with clearer understanding of what it takes to be competitive day 1 freshman year.            

My post isn't to support one way or the other but to just consider that both sides have merit and that both work when the system in TN. by system I mean coaches are the better educated on preparing athletes for each level they want and should pursue.