Stat Question

[irishmom]

Recently watched a game where the ball was hit back to the pitcher, who could have easily fielded the ball and gotten an easy out at 1st. Instead, the pitcher really bobbled the ball, overthrew 1st, and the runner made it to 2nd. Is is right that you cannot give the pitcher an error? How did the runner get on base? Is this a hit? If so how is it recorded? Is the error on the 1st baseman? What???

[govolz]

E-1 , FC

[weasel]

E1.......No FC.

[fpjunkie]

You can give an error to any player, including the pitcher. In this case, it might actually be two errors. You said she badly bobbled the ball and then overthrew first base. Was the throw in time to get the runner out? If so, then it would only be one error. However, if the runner had it beat, then there would be one error on the bobble which allowed her to reach first, then a second error on the throw which allowed her to reach second. The error would not be on the first baseman unless the throw should have been caught with ordinary effort (or unless the pitcher's father was keeping score.)

[weasel]

There would NOT be two errors on the play it would be a two base error.

[illpete23]

Personally I don't give pitcher's errors on shots right back to them. But in this case you said the pitcher bobbled the ball AND made a bad throw. In that case, it sounds like an error is in store.

 

Also, I WILL NOT give an outfielder an error for busting her hump to get to a ball, only to dive outstreached and have the ball barely nick her glove. If there was extreme effort put into the play, I will award no error. Also, line shots to the pitcher or down the line that nicks a glove is also no error in my book. A diving shortstop or second baseman to cover the hole, no error. A catcher diving to catch a short popped up bunt, no error. EFFORT is not an error.

 

However, throwing errors often have no alternative but an error.

[larjoranj]

Irishmom, what you are probably thinking about is that a pitcher and a catcher are not charged with errors on wild pitches and passed balls because of the sheer number of times each handles the ball, possibly 100 or more a game. But once the ball is put in play she becomes just another fielder who can be charged with an error. Sorry Weasel, fpjunkie is right, If the throw was in time to get the runner you can not charge an error for the boot but would charge 1 error for 2 bases on the throw. If the throw would not have gotten the runner, then you have 2 errors, 1 on the boot for allowing the runner to reach first and another on the throw for allowing her to advance to second.

[imasoftballer]

Pitchers are not typically considered fielders. They are not charged with fielding errrors unless it is a bunt or a routine ground ball. They are however, lible for throwing errors.

 

BTW, wild pitches and pass balls are considered errors if runners advance or are able to reach first base on a strike out.

[mtnman]

Can you imagine how many different ways people are doing stats for softball. Just with this short discussion there are 5 or 6 interpretations.

[fpjunkie]

You are right, there are wide variances in the way people keep stats. Unfortunately, these stats are often used to determine post season awards. I have spoken with parents on other teams who tell me that their players get credited with base hits every time they have a sacrifice, walk, fielders choice, etc. No wonder some of the batting averages are so high. Sometimes when I see a line summary in the paper called in by one of our opponents, I wonder if they were watching the same game.

 

Keeping score is complicated when you have a well-trained, unbiased scorekeeper. In nearly all high school games, you have a parent who is usually not particularly well trained and, no matter how hard he/she tries, is certainly not unbiased. I try to follow the guidelines set out by the National Fastpitch Coaches Association (www.nfca.org). I reread them at least twice a year and carry a copy with the scorebook. My daughter is a pitcher. When there is a close call and she is pitching, I ask myself how I would score it if she had been hitting. If she is hitting, I ask myself how I would score it if she was pitching. If I am still not sure, I ask several people around me for their opinions. I still admit, however, that I am not totally objective. I don't believe that any parent can be.

 

It would be nice if TSSAA would print out some guidelines and maybe even have an annual seminar. Although you are never going to have totally consistent approaches to scorekeeping from school to school, I believe that you could come a whole lot closer with a little bit of training.

[rocole98]

i have kept scorebooks for leagues and for my daughter's travel teams over the past seven years. i agree with the statement that effort is not an error. i also agree with the statement that a parent cannot be totally objective. my daughter is a pitcher and i have charged her errors on fielding, mainly when i think she should have cleanly fielded a ball. having read this discussion, i realize i have probably "erred" on the side of errors--i.e., charged her with more than her fair share, when she didn't knock a ball down that realistically she probably couldn't get from the pitcher's position.

it is a shame that more people don't learn how to score a game the right way. or care enough to read up on it and then try to be as fair as possible when keeping these books. it's really unfortunate that post season awards are based on inflated stats. keeping a good book is truly a dying art.

[owlstatman]

E-1...2 base error...the best website that will answer all your questions about scoring is MLB.com. Make sure you have plenty of time to read this, its about 20 pages long, but it covers all situations.