private supporters

[pujo]

I,m going to let you guys prove the public schools point for us. You tell us why the private schools are dominating 1a sports. As you do this ,you will show us all the advantages. There is no way you can explain it without doing so, Give it a shot. I don,t expect too many tries without changing the subject. You guys seem to have all the answers,show me I,m wrong .

[TheEgoHasLanded]

Privates have the advantage because they have more kids turn out and participate in sports, thats why some private schools like Lighthouse Christian are horrible...some schools like Clarksville Academy get rid of football...and some schools like BA (back in the 70's) had 107 out of 113 kids on the football team and succeeded. The good public schools have a pretty good amount of kids on the team.

 

Pujo, how many kids were on Cloudlands team last year...how many 1A public schools had more kids than you that you played, and how many private schools had about the same amount as kids as you?

[pujo]

I really don,t know how to research this, I do know that every school in our region has a bigger enrollment than we do, As a matter of fact,only Jellico has a 1a enrollment at this time. Unaka and North Greene in the newest figures are at a 2a enrollment, I,m really not sure about Cosby.

[gobigred]

Don't be guilty of thinking all private school proponents feel the same way about this issue. I have come to believe that rural public schools like yours have some unique disadvantages and do belong in a classification by themselves. We need a reasonable multiplier put in place for privates and open zoned publics to the account for the demographic disadvantages that schools like yours have, not for the advantages that they have. Such a system could ensure that teams like Cloudland's compete against schools with limited student populations, minimal financial resources, and lower per capita participation levels.

 

Football is not the only issue in this debate, but most of realize that it is the point of emphasis. Consequently, the TSSAA should look seriously at forming a sanctioned 8 man football league for schools that either can't support a full program or choose to use their resources for other purposes. Athletes at small private schools like Lighthouse Christian and SAS along with some of the very small publics that have always struggled to win games at the 1A level could still enjoy playing football, but in a program that is less expensive and numbers dependent.

 

If these things were done, all Tennessee high school athletics could be brought back together under one umbrella of competition, with the same number of classifications, and with a much more balanced structure. The only reasons I can think of that would cause a public school supporter to resist a fair multiplier system are:

 

1. A total dislike of private schools for reasons other than athletics.

2. A belief that private school athletics programs are so good that publics schools, regardless of size, just can't compete with them.

[TheEgoHasLanded]

No offense but Cosby is a complete joke, I used to know some people that went there...

 

We aren't talking about enrollments Pujo, we are talking about kids on the team.

 

My senior year we beat White Station High School a 4A school that had 30 kids out there 31-0...next season they had a lot more and a new coach and we only won 15-14.

 

Small schools are supposed to lose because they have fewer amount of kids which translates to probably less talent...but if the talent isn't playing, then you have a bigger problem anyway.

 

 

How many kids were on Cloudlands team, can you not tell me that?

[Chakra20]

This is how i see it.

 

!) Better coaching in most cases prolly not in your case PUJO. MOre money they can pay.

 

2) Easier Coached kids(that are above average students or they couldnt make it at the school)

 

3) Better SUpport the parents and teachers are more hands on becuase of lower student teacher ratio. Along with noone is gonna waste their money and not take a vested interest in what their kids are doing or how welll they are doing it.

 

4) Being suceessful is contagious. Once they start winning you dont see them drop off much.

 

Everyone wants to say they recruit and are actively seeking ATHLETES, which is not true unless your a Brentwood Academy or the likes. The school itself recruits because of a better learning enviroment the odds are better that you will attend college if you attend a private school. Went to Ezell's graduation Saturday and 100% of them are going to college. Can any public school claim that... i seriously doubt it.

 

The idea of the schools itself is where the the real differences exist. Private school are there for excellence in ALL things and to do what it takes for that to happen. Public schools do not have that same mindset, which to me is the whole problem with not only the school system but also AMerica as a whole. We Settle... We settle for passing grades when we should look for A's.... We settle for doing a job "Good Enough For Government work"... we settle for ho hum relationships instead of ones that last a lifetime.

 

My rant ends here but i do beleive deep down that the problem isnt the privates doing things that are illegal or recruiting its more along the lines of the publics not doing what they should do. I think taking the control out of the governments hands and into some kind of private organization is the ultimate answer. There has to be a reason why we spend more on education than any other country but yet we rank 15th in the world in education. Our governement @ work.

 

But Pujo you know i agree they should prolly be split but at the same time its for different reason thatn other people that support it.

[pujo]

I agree to what everyone is saying. I don't necessarily agree that we need a split. I do think that the multiplier would have to be sufficient to put the privates in 3a. The only problem with this is that your Lighthouse Christians would move up as well, and they definitely don't need that. The next problem would be that 3a probably will not want to play the 1a privates either. Just to be honest, I think if Cloudland had a 3a enrollment we could handle any of the small privates no problem. Look what we do with the 213 students we have. I just don't think, on average, that very many of the 3a schools gets out of their programs what we do. Not only us, but Greenback, Collinwood, South Pitt, Bruceton, and a few more that have great programs. If any of these had a 3a enrollment it should be easy to compete I guess the 3a schools would be weary of the Brentwood Academies. They proved they could take a small enrollment and beat the biggest and baddest teams in the state. It is the potential of these small private schools that is going to make it hard to do anything but a complete split.

[lazarus]

red,

 

while i think of myself as a general secondary school sports supporter, i am probably considered a public supporter in this venue. and i have another reason for opposing a multiplier. i think it is unfair to group all the privates as if a single multiplier applies to all of them. in my opinion, the range of privates is greater than the range of publics (even considering the urban-rural differences). if a multiplier is added that is appropriate for BA (one end of the spectrum), then that would put EVERY private school in 5-A (3-A non-football). maybe there would be less furor if we screw the weaker privates, but it wouldnt be any more right.

[gobigred]

laz,

 

I agree with what what you are saying. That is why I propose that the TSSAA investigate 8 man football. At least the weaker privates and tiny publics could possibly field a competitive team at that level. SAS, MTCS, and USN already have to play us (MBA, BA, BGA) in baseball and basketball which is a bad situation. A total split will not solve their problems either.

 

The truth is that the small Christian privates like Lighthouse would be much better off in the Christian school league in all sports with teams like Mt. Juliet Christian, Radnor Baptist, and College Heights. I still believe the multiplier system would be the best solution for the largest number of Tennessee high schools. As we all know no solution will be a perfect fit for every school, and no solution will satisfy everyone involved.

[ELA]

For those who don't know yet, Lighthouse is withdrawing from the TSSAA. I don't know if they are going to continue to offer football as a sport, but they will not be in the TSSAA next year.

[silverpie]

While most of you know that I support a promotion-relegation system and consider a multiplier to be the next-best idea, I will also state that I think a form of short-sided football would be a good addition to the Tennessee high school sports scene. The most popular version nationwide is 8-man; 6-man is preferred in the Southwest and 9-man in the Northern Plains.

[TheEgoHasLanded]

Some of the oldtime posters...myself, Volgen, ELA, silverpie, pujo, Charka and many others are starting to see that the problem is not really recruiting or necessarily open zones (Lighthouse Christian, Ellington Baptist, etc.)

 

 

The problem is what Chakra listed and possibly the fact that the turnout is more for private school sports than in public school sports.

 

Schools like Cosby are very good in basketball and they only need 8 or 9 guys on the basketball team as opposed to 40 to 50 to be successful in football. They don't need a lot of kids on the team to be successful.

 

Many people are saying that this is mostly about football, and football requires many kids on the team, excellent coaching, FUNDING, and hard work through out the year. I can't think of another sport that requires all of those to the same degree as football.

You can get 6 kids off the street and field a pretty decent basketball team, you wouldn't even need practice...but football is completely different, it is one of the only TEAM games that is left, one or two good football players and your team will only be decent (even in 1A) but one or two good players in basketball and you can be really tough (South Fulton, Chatt. Christian)

 

I think, for the first time in awhile, we are actually making progress.