The problem

[lazarus]

i dont know about all catholic schools, but what ela & kfc coach said certainly applies to father ryan. i even considered specifically excepting them from my criticism, but i am sure they are not the only one. however, if all private schools were run like father ryan, i dont believe this debate would be happening.

[KCHSCoach]

Then why not get rid of the problem, why didn't the T$$AA kick out McCallie and Brentwood Acd. for cheating? Instead of making this DI and DII administratively clean set up that is a bunch of crap. Punish the cheaters and lets go back to the way it should be. (However on another note it has made us better being forced to compete against these bigger and better schools)

[BDURHAM]

Check out the history. The privates did more than simply sign-on to D2.

 

There are other privates who violated the financial aid rules, etc. Look it up.

[Chakra20]

Lazarus,

 

Sorry for my tardy response to your post i have been in and out of town. I understand the point of your post and how public schools have to take anyone and everyone to their schools. My simple reply to that is that if private schools where set-up for their best interests they would take them. Because of the small size of the schools and limited budgets(Yes Limited) it is not in the child best interest to be in a private school.

 

Obviously you must feel that the private schools have shown the path that public schools should take. And, if the public schools are to follow the private lead, it is readily apparent that they must also begin with selective enrollment.

 

Yes i do feel that privitization(sp) of schools is the direction we need to head. When we as a country spend more on education than any other country per student and end up 15th in education that tells me something. The reason some of these numbers are skewed is because the other countries we are compared to do have selective enrollment and makes it difficult to compare apples and apples.

 

our stabce about the handicapped is a good point and private schools are available for people with specail needs just not all private schools.

 

They are at least trying to do what needs to be done. The ones who dropped the ball are the ones who built little walls to hide from the complexities of the real world. Those who choose private schools are making a personal decision for their family, and that is their business. However, if someone feels like they have all the answers for the public schools, they ought to roll up their sleeves and pitch in.

 

They are trying to get done what has to be done, but if you think for one minute that the government run schools are fullfilling the educational and discipline needs of children today i would beg to differ on that. More can be done, much more, and its a cummunity problem, a family problem, a Nationwide problem that may never be changed. If you think being in a private school shields you from the way life is i would beg to differ on that to. To be Frank with you conecption of what the average private school is like is skewed i do beleive.

 

If you wanna see what the average school is like take a trip down I-24 and goto Hickory Hollow in Antioch and stop in @ Ezell-Harding and you might understand more of where im commin from. Trust me there is a differnce between schools like MBA and Ezell I attended both schools and can tell you that there is a huge differnce. MDA is more of your upper class Ezell is almost all middle class.

 

Your community has something todo with it but you have to look at the state as a whole, because getting a microscope isnt gona fix your problem that is Statewide. There are many other States just like TN that do better than we do in education, but thats not the point. If you wanna settle for being in last thats right where you will end up.

[lazarus]

chakra,

 

i will also make a tardy response. hopefully you wont see it as an attack, but rather a disagreement on some points. i respect the intellectual honesty you have always shown by considering other viewpoints.

 

we talked about families with children accepted into a private school, with special needs siblings who were not accepted, and you responded that "it is not in the child('s) best interest to be in a private school."

given that one of your arguments for privates has always been that public schools do not adequately provide for physical safety, how is it in any child's best interest to be in a dangerous environment? another private point, that public schools have "taken god out" raises the question as to how come special needs children do not need religion as much as "normal" kids?

you do say that there are private schools for special needs kids, and i am familiar with at least one, in nashville. i would be interested as to whether more exist... for that matter i would be curious as to whether the one i know about is still there. i didnt find them listed in the latest nashville yellow pages.

their kids had behavioral problems, and they were woefully underfunded, and not producing any miracles just by being private. much like the public schools, they just did the best they could with each child, with some successes (and some not). they also werent collecting any gold balls, they werent able to compete in the tsaa at all. like every school that i have seen, what they produce is easily predicted, based on what they have to work with. and i am talking in terms of students not budget.

 

you believe that privatization is the way to go, but all the success stories consist of taking only smart kids, with strong family support, kicking out any troublemakers that surface, and miraculously producing good graduates. i'm sorry, but isnt that about as challenging as shooting fish in a barrel?

 

of course, your reason that change is needed is the supposed poor ranking of our educational systems in the US. the statistics you rely on (altho you do admit they are comparing apples and oranges) are selected for distribution solely to support the incessant demand for more tax money. i find it inexplicable that we can dominate the world in technology and science, and have students from around the world lining up to get into our universities, and yet have a weaker educational system.

 

i appreciate the invitation to ezell, but i have been there several times. i have talked to your principal (as well as other staff and students), toured your facilities, i am fairly familiar with ezell. i would concur with your description of it. i see it as solid, hard-working, blue-collar, salt-of-the-earth, middle class. it is definitely not a rich kids school. at least not in absolute terms (ie the official government definition of families with incomes over 200k per annum). however, there are an awful lot of families in my community who would consider you wealthy.

i was favorably impressed with ezell. i was treated very well, and found it to be very much a family atmosphere.

now, as for calling it average...

i have also been to harding (memphis), mus, mba, bga, fra, ca, sas, both webbs, mccallie, baylor, and others. there is no such thing as an average private school.

 

now, if you just want to criticize the educational system in general, we will need a lot more time. there is a lot i disagree with, and a lot of shortcomings that should be lengthened (thats a joke). but i havent yet seen anything from private schools that looks like an answer. private schools succeed by not taking on challenges, and for the public schools that is not an option.

[VolunteerGeneral]

I am a little confused, here.

What ball did the public schools drop?

 

Did they drop the ball by allowing mentally and physically handicapped students?

Did they drop the ball by allowing more kids to enroll than would conveniently fit their facilities?

Did they drop the ball by allowing kids without supportive parents?

Did they drop the ball because the laws force them to spread their resources too thin?

What ball did they drop?

 

Obviously you must feel that the private schools have shown the path that public schools should take. And, if the public schools are to follow the private lead, it is readily apparent that they must also begin with selective enrollment.

 

So I am curious about how your perfect world is going to work….

First of all, what about the handicapped? We already know that the privates don’t have any interest in taking them. Even the handicapped siblings of private students are dumped off on the public schools. So now that the publics are going to “pick up the ball”, what happens to the handicapped?

What about the kids who want to enroll after the limits are met? After we reach our 20 kids per class, what happens to the rest?

What about the kids without a functional parent? You would be shocked at how many kids have no one to see that they are fed or clothed, no one who cares where they are or what they are doing. There are kids who just go from here to there, staying with, and eating wherever they can. Kids who don’t even know where their parent is. Those kids tend to do poorly in school. What will we do with them?

What about the emotionally troubled, the pregnant, the slow, what about all the kids that don’t meet the criterion to assure success? What do we do with them?

 

What do you have in mind for all those kids that don’t measure up to private school standards? Are you thinking about building big institutions; prisons, work camps, or maybe euthanizing the imperfect? What is your proposed solution?

 

Now, I am not saying that public schools don’t have room to improve. I am not saying that they don’t deserve criticism. But they haven’t dropped the ball. They are at least trying to do what needs to be done. The ones who dropped the ball are the ones who built little walls to hide from the complexities of the real world. Those who choose private schools are making a personal decision for their family, and that is their business. However, if someone feels like they have all the answers for the public schools, they ought to roll up their sleeves and pitch in. There is plenty of work for everyone. Just like in sports, what makes bleacher coaches so smart is that they don’t have to try and put their ideas into practice.

 

So the Tennessee school systems rate near the bottom nationally. Have you considered that might be related to whose kids we have in our schools? The average person in my community has an 8th grade education and makes $14,900 per year. Why isn’t our school turning out Rhodes scholars? Is it the school? You tell me.

Laz...Let me inform you of how the ball is being dropped. This next Monday morning I will be in attendence at the Madison County Commisioners meeting. At issue is about 3.5 million dollars that the school superintendent has recommended that the commision will likely turn down. Our system needs the money. The result of not getting this money will greatly hurt public education in Jackson. A lot of people are sick and tired of this type of treatment. that is why private schools exist. Please don`t act so naive to the fact that public schools have "dropped the ball".

[Chakra20]

Lazarus,

 

Thank you for your response and you do bring up some good points. I understand that addition by subtraction is basically the function that private schools do. The subtract below average students(Education or bahviooral problems) and then only are left with top notch students and the public schools have to deal with everything from disicpline problems to below average students and provide for specail needs kids. That a huge undertaking and i can respect you and they are coming from.

 

To answer your question on how a public school can be a better place for a speical needs student i would say the cirriculm. I know that a majity of students that cant make it at Ezell for whatever reason attend Lighthouse because they have slighly slower learning cirriculmn. Public schools are set-up, because they HAVE to accept those types of students, to handle those children with these needs already plus the pace private schools have would not not be suitable for the attention these types of students need. Plus of coarse it all comes down to money and that it would cost them a ton to educate those with those needs. As far as the schools that provide for those types of kids i dont know of many, and its not MY FAULT I WORK @ THE YELLOW PAGES I PROLLY LEFT THEM OUT!!! (just kidding)

 

 

People all around the world are lining up to get into our Universities, which we can agree takes the cream off the top as well, but they dont line-up for you high school education. The only poiny i was making is that many posters make broad sweeping statements of private schools like they are all MBA, BA, McCallie etc... that are outside the norms.

 

The best thing you said is...

 

 

but i havent yet seen anything from private schools that looks like an answer. private schools succeed by not taking on challenges, and for the public schools that is not an option.

 

 

This is the honest truth but the pne thing i would add is that we ahvent done everyhting we can to make the situation better.

[CSense]

Lazarus,

 

Thank you for your response and you do bring up some good points. I understand that addition by subtraction is basically the function that private schools do. The subtract below average students(Education or bahviooral problems) and then only are left with top notch students and the public schools have to deal with everything from disicpline problems to below average students and provide for specail needs kids. That a huge undertaking and i can respect you and they are coming from.

 

To answer your question on how a public school can be a better place for a speical needs student i would say the cirriculm. I know that a majity of students that cant make it at Ezell for whatever reason attend Lighthouse because they have slighly slower learning cirriculmn. Public schools are set-up, because they HAVE to accept those types of students, to handle those children with these needs already plus the pace private schools have would not not be suitable for the attention these types of students need. Plus of coarse it all comes down to money and that it would cost them a ton to educate those with those needs. As far as the schools that provide for those types of kids i dont know of many, and its not MY FAULT I WORK @ THE YELLOW PAGES I PROLLY LEFT THEM OUT!!! (just kidding)

 

 

People all around the world are lining up to get into our Universities, which we can agree takes the cream off the top as well, but they dont line-up for you high school education. The only poiny i was making is that many posters make broad sweeping statements of private schools like they are all MBA, BA, McCallie etc... that are outside the norms.

 

The best thing you said is...

 

 

but i havent yet seen anything from private schools that looks like an answer. private schools succeed by not taking on challenges, and for the public schools that is not an option.

 

 

This is the honest truth but the pne thing i would add is that we ahvent done everyhting we can to make the situation better.

And if I may take similar words per Volunteer General:

 

Need I say more??????

 

Here is a perfect example of the ....private .... school mentality on this issue.

[Chakra20]

Csense,

 

Your obviously not reading what i wrote correctly prolly because of the bad grammar and typos. IM agreeing that there is a huge differnce between public and private schools...I AGREE. Maybe im misreading you but i would usually take that as a smart #### comment you can tell me if im wrong.

 

Need I say more??????

 

Here is a perfect example of the ....private .... school mentality on this issue

 

The point ot me is that public school and private schools need to do all the can do in their situation. The public schools have a much larger hill to climb than privates when it comes to education and on the field. Thats why a multiplier is needed not because the privates are doing thing so much better ie coaching, training, recruiting etc ,but that the obstacles in front of public school have a NEGATIVE correlation to their results.

 

Read alittle more next time...I think all you did was read my name then reply.

 

Need i say more?

Edited July 1, 2003 by Chakra20