Private V. Public

[Tacoma]

I think you missed KCHSCoach's point.  He is saying don't punish the private school kids whose parents are trying to do what is best for them. 

His point is not missed. He is stating that private school parents are doing what is best for their kids. He is implying that public school parents are not. I still don't understand how private school kids will be punished. You expect public school kids to compete with private school kids. However, you think it is punishment for DI private school kids to compete with DII private school kids.

 

I agree that parents not only have the right but they have the obligation to do what they think is best for their kids. What I don't understand is why are the private schools so desperate to want to keep playing public schools for state championships. The private school parents have made a decision to withdraw their kids from the public school setting but insist they compete on the athletic field. You don't want them to go to school with public school kids, but think they are being punished if they can't play them on Friday night. I just don't understand that.

[Mustang Mom]

We have our son in private school because we wanted him in a Christian environment. We sacrifice to pay the tuition. We did not chose the school because of their athletic program. I do feel that this whole issue is very unfair to the private schools. First of all, there is no representative on the board for the privates, therefore, they have no voice. I have not seen one alternative presented that is fair for the privates. Kick them out altogether and have them compete with the Div. I and Div. II schools is not fair - those schools all offer financial aid to athletes and these divisions were created for them. Schools that do not offer financial aid to athletes should not have to compete with the schools that do. Also, these schools are located all over the state and would force the privates to travel all over the state as well, another hardship for their programs. The multiplier which forces private schools to play at double their enrollment is higher than any other state in the nation and the states that presently use multipliers only use them for schools that offer financial aid to athletes. None of these options are fair for the privates. Lets be honest here, if private schools never won any state championships this would not be an issue.

[VolunteerGeneral]

You both are correct! We, public school coaches have been saying this for years! I just hope it happens this time! This is why Upperman, Smith Co., Trousdale Co., Jackson Co., York, Cannon Co., all choose to play in 3A rather than 2A. We got tired of dealing with the likes of David Lipscomb and Goodpasture.

Hey Da Coach! You are DaWrong!

 

Trousdale has never had to deal with Lipscomb and Goodpasture. And they certainly had no problem dealing with private schools. In fact they stayed in 1A as long as they could. They never voluntarily moved out of 1A. They enjoyed smashing every private school they played and have several gold balls to show for it. When they had to move to 2A, they decided to move up to 3A because of the closer proximity of region opponents.

[Bighurt]

Tacoma,

I should have let KCHSCoach speak for himself. I apologize.

 

The bottom line is Div. II was established because BA beat Riverdale in 1995. Pure and simple. The principal of Riverdale who was on the Board of Control at the time decided it was time to "banish" BA, MBA, Father Ryan, etc. to a separate division because he percepted that BA was cheating. Even though several of those schools have been members of the TSSAA since its inception, they are voted out basically.

 

I did not make the decision to put my kids in private schools to separate them from public school kids. My wife and I decided that CPA would be best for our kids. If they were not at CPA, they would probably be in a public school 2 blocks from our house. By the way, I went to a public high school (Stratford) and a public university (Memphis State) and so did my wife.

 

The major reason that I believe it would unfair for CPA to be forced into Div. II has to do with increased costs - increased travel costs; increased costs because we would be "forced" to provide financial aid to athletes in order to compete in Div. II and increased costs because we would need to upgrade our facilities to compete in Div. II. The schools CPA's "peers" are FRA, DCA, Ezell, Nashville Christian, Davdison, Goodpasture and David Lipscomb which are all Div. I. CPA has limited resources and does not have the financial resources to compete with BA, MBA or Father Ryan in Div. II. I am a former CPA school board member and former head of the Diaconate at Christ Presbyterian Church so I know what I am talking about.

 

There are two sides to this issue. You have a right to your opinion. I wanted you to see my take.

[stuffy]

After going to a D1 private school and now transferring to a D2 private school, i will say this. It is a whole new ballgame. The top D1 private schools would be all right but the other ones would have a lot of trouble in D2, especially in football. And someone posted this earlier but a lot of these kids who go to private schools are no more richer than kids who go to public schools. I lot of my friends who go to public schools have nicer things than I do.

[MBAalumnus]

thank you Bigun. Very good take. First, I'd say CPA will be alongside MBA and BA w/in 5-7 years. David Pack is a fantastic coach (heck, if Jeff Fisher sends his son to play for him, I'd say that's a ringing endorsement). Basically to back up what you're saying, MBA had played Hillsborough, Hillwood, Overton, et al for years and years. Now, we can't even fill a regular season schedule without leaving the state twice. Not only that, but the public schools seem to really delight in denying MBA, BA, regular season games. The TSSAA should step in for all of us and mandate that local teams play us in the regular season without post-season implications.

 

Seriously, to all you CPA supporters: PLEASE encourage Coach Pack and the leadership over there to move up to 2A or 3A. No one could rightly challenge you for beating teams with 2-3x your enrollment (which you will do). Just don't give them the ammo to boot you out by piling up 1A trophies.

[silverpie]

Interesting point. As things now stand, playing and losing to an MBA does have postseason implications. To give you an example, take Cumberland Gap. Suppose instead of scheduling weak-sister Claiborne, they had decided to get adventurous and play (and lose to, one would guess) Austin-East. Instead of third in their region, they would have missed out altogether. Similarly, Daniel Boone cost itself the fourth slot out of 1-quad by scheduling Science Hill in week 5--if they had played Taft Youth Center instead, they ace Sullivan South out of the last spot. Hixson, too, could have made it by scheduling a weaker opponent than Baylor or Soddy-Daisy. Heck, Brentwood High would have been on the road in the round of 32 instead of region champions if they'd lost to MBA instead of beating up on Ryan.

 

This is one part of why I support a computer-based system. The rules should not discourage doing the right thing the way they do.

[robjim]

thank you Bigun.  Very good take.  First, I'd say CPA will be alongside MBA and BA w/in 5-7 years.  David Pack is a fantastic coach (heck, if Jeff Fisher sends his son to play for him, I'd say that's a ringing endorsement).  Basically to back up what you're saying, MBA had played Hillsborough, Hillwood, Overton, et al for years and years.  Now, we can't even fill a regular season schedule without leaving the state twice.  Not only that, but the public schools seem to really delight in denying MBA, BA, regular season games. The TSSAA should step in for all of us and mandate that local teams play us in the regular season without post-season implications.

 

Seriously, to all you CPA supporters: PLEASE encourage Coach Pack and the leadership over there to move up to 2A or 3A.  No one could rightly challenge you for beating teams with 2-3x your enrollment (which you will do).  Just don't give them the ammo to boot you out by piling up 1A trophies.

MBA, thanks for those kind words, but my concern is would the 2As or 3As take us without a fight/same complaint. Are we just moving the problem from 1A up to those levels?

Edited December 4, 2003 by robjim

[MBAalumnus]

MBA, thanks for those kind words, but my concern is would the 2As or 3As take us without a fight/same complaint. Are we just moving the problem from 1A up to those levels?

 

Robjim, My take here would be that yes, they would complain, but how could it be taken seriously? I believe that public schools are entitled to complain about playing private schools with similar enrollment #'s, but how could someone be taken seriously if they have 2-3x the enrollement that CPA does and is still losing?

 

I think BA's failure to move to 3A in the mid 80's is what got us here in the first place.

[OnlineLC]

I wish CPA would move up. If we did, maybe the others would feel compelled to do the same.

 

As for being like MBA is 5-6 years. I went to the Clinic Bowl and I have to admit I was absolutely Gobsmacked at the skill level of MBA. I think most 1A Privated would have to triple their enrollment to even stay on the same field.

[37421]

I have (in confidence) spoken with several 1A private coaches and supporters who WERE itching to move up to AA or AAA but were stymied by the whole Collinwood proposal thing (wanted to see if they would be forced to change regions or divisions first. They are involved on successful programs who had out-performed their respective regions for the most part and thought that long-term it would be better for the program.