MillsHalf Posted February 6, 2004 Report Share Posted February 6, 2004 However, I think the "team title" at the traditional tourney is viewed as a championship for the coaches. Just look at the program at this year's state tourney. It lists all the individual winners by name back to the very begining. It also lists the team champions with the coach's name, no mention of the 12 to 14 wrestlers who actually scored the points. At the traditional tourney, how many coaches require their wrestlers to stay at the venue to support their teammates in the consulations? At the duals, they advance based on the performance of the group which to me is a better reflection of the team concept. I think that your right that the team scoring will never be dropped from the traditional tourney because the folks that would vote it out are the same one's who most want it to remain. Show me one ex wrestler who when asked how he did at the state will say that "my team won" before he says "I placed ____". Walkenvol, Point well taken. But I think many wrestlers would say "I placed third, which helped my team place first, second, etc." Every ex-wrestler knows the value of coming back through consolations to help the team. I've heard coaches at some of the premier tourneys in the state (McCallie, Ryan, Black Horse) tell their kids to keep fighting through consolations to get team points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
911 Posted February 6, 2004 Report Share Posted February 6, 2004 Blofish, how can you assume that no more than 8 of 130 D1 teams deserve or are not strong enough to compete in the State Duals Tourney? That is just dumb! And to make it even worse you are standing your ground when it comes to the magic number of 8 DII teams competing. I really think the sport is for the athelets and not the "fishermen" in the state, the TSSAA should take steps to give more wrestlers an opportunity to compete. There can not be anything wrong with that, right? 50% (or so) of the DII teams go to the state.....I think you did have one great idea whhen you said a 64 team field may bring this thread to a halt!! I also agree the If D1 is limited to 8 teams that DII should be droped to 2 teams...if TSSAA is going to be unfair to D1, lets show DII :justwrestle: the same treatment by percentage!! Of course, bringing D1 up by percentage makes much more sense, lets give more wrestlers a chance to wrestle!! Bayoubear, never mind, the Blowfish will never come off of the DII rush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
best_of_the_west Posted February 6, 2004 Report Share Posted February 6, 2004 Ok, D2 has at least 3 teams (4 if you count CBHS) that can compete at states. In D1, it would be a stretch to say that anyone can compete with Bradley. At most you can say 2 teams can compete. The talent is more diluted in D1, so it's harder to put together a very good team. I'm in favor of the 16 team D1 tournament, but there is no way that more than 3 or 4 teams will be able to compete for the title any time soon. That's just how I see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHSCOACH Posted February 6, 2004 Report Share Posted February 6, 2004 One of the best ways to increase the popularity of the sport and the quality of the state is to have more teams in the state duals. The duals is the only championship that I know of, were a average kid can be a state champion. Taking an average kid who can not be pinned and putting him up against a stud who has to pin could very well be the factor that determines who wins thestate tournament. What other sport has this? Every wrestling coach knows that they have to beat the hallways to find athletes to wrestle. This is not football or basketball, we have to recruit. What a great recruitment tool a coachwould have, when he could walk the hallls and tell athletes wrestle for us and we will take you to the state tournament. So what if a team gets knocked out the first round, most football team think advancing to the payoffs is an honor. What is the difference? Why are DII schools ranked higher than most DI? I would argue that they have already figured this out and use it to their advantage. If you start on a DII you qualify for the individual state tournament. How many DI kids can say they made it to the state tournament? And this is not a bash DII statement, it is exactly what I said before, they have already figured it out. Success breeds success. So bring on the 16 DI state duals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papbear3 Posted February 6, 2004 Report Share Posted February 6, 2004 I disagree with the last comment. I personally believe that D2 should have a sectional and the top four from each section (2) should advance to the state tournament. Even if that means that we only have 8 man brackets, at least the brackets will be full and there will be no switching weight classes. The state tournament is something that should be earned, I my opinion. Alas, I am in the minority on this matter. I agree that the D1 duals should be expanded to 16, but it will never happen unless TSSAA either splits the Duals into D1 and D2 in separate facilities or we can find a bigger venue to host all 24 teams that is cost effective. Remember my friends, to use modern nomenclature, it is all about the benjamins. Splitting the duals = less revenue for TSSAA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHSCOACH Posted February 6, 2004 Report Share Posted February 6, 2004 No the duals can remain together and host 16 teams. That has already been worked out. The start times and the finish times are pushed forward and back by 2 hours. That is with a single elimination in the first round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papbear3 Posted February 6, 2004 Report Share Posted February 6, 2004 It would be 24 teams if D2 is included. That is my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papbear3 Posted February 6, 2004 Report Share Posted February 6, 2004 If you are saying that we can do 24 together, then hey, let's do it, sounds great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachDelgado Posted February 6, 2004 Report Share Posted February 6, 2004 That is what CHSCoach is saying. The wrestling could start at 3:00 on Friday. The first round of DI, with 16 teams, would be single elimination. After that, they fall into double elimintaion just like it is now. This would necessitate an extra 2 hour round on Saturday. The DII schedule would remain as it is except for the Saturday rounds pushed back two hours. The new schedule could/would look like this: Friday 2:00 weigh in for DI 3:00 DI round of 16 on four mats. 4:00 weigh in for DII 5:00 DI round of 16 on two mats. DII round of 8 on two mats. 7:00 DI round of 16 on two mats. DII round of 8 on two mats. Saturday 8:00 weigh in for DI 9:00 DI round of 8 on four mats. 10:00 weigh in for DII 11:00 DI semi-finals on two mats. DII semi-finals on two mats. 1:00 DI consolation round 1 on two mats. DII consolation round 1 on two mats. 3:00 DI consolation semi-finals on two mats. DII consolation semi-finals on two mats. 5:00 DI and DII third place bout on 2 mats. 7:00 DI and DII finals on two mats. You could even "reward" the cons semifinals losers with a fifth place bout alongside the third place bout, although I don't think it will happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmasters Posted February 6, 2004 Report Share Posted February 6, 2004 (edited) Show me a really good D1 team that is not in the state tourney and maybe you'll convince me. OK...How about Kenwood? We beat Collierville, split with Clarksville, split with Christian Brothers, finished way ahead of Maryville in the Bradley Central Invitational, and ahead of Brentwood Academy at Father Ryan. We also beat Cleveland this year, a team that many keep making a case for to be at the duals. I have been the only head coach at Kenwood (7 years). For the last 6 years we have finished 2nd in our region duals to Clarksville and have beaten many teams that were able to represent their schools and communities at the state duals. In 2000 we finished 4th at the traditional state tournament, but we were not able to compete in the state duals because we finished 2nd in our region duals to the 2000 state champions, Clarksville. As a coach, I would like nothing more than for our team to be wrestling this weekend. By no means do I think that we would win the duals, but it would be nice for my kids to be able to say they competed with the "best." Johnny Masters KKW Edited February 6, 2004 by KKW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkenvol Posted February 6, 2004 Report Share Posted February 6, 2004 Coach Masters - it appears that the majority would prefer to expand the D1 div to 16 teams and possibly return the small school div also. I understand that at the traditional tourney each year, rule changes are presented to the coaches for a vote. If this is accurate, has the expantion of the duals tourney been voted down in the past? Is there a proposal on the table for this season's vote? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g-natin2005 Posted February 6, 2004 Report Share Posted February 6, 2004 ha ha maryville now its time for you to lose because this is bradley centrals best year that i can remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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