State Duals format

[gofish]

Maybe DI should have a 64 team bracket....a Feb Madness. Would that end this thread?

 

Just casue there are over 130 DI teams, doens't mean there are more than 8 that deserve to go to state duals. Show me a really good D1 team that is not in the state tourney and maybe you'll convince me.

 

As far as DII goes, maybe one of the teams doesn't deserve to be there in the grand scope of TN wrestling, but whatcha gonna go. Those are the rules.

[texas23]

I think Cleveland beat ND this year and it is not a typical year for them in talent. They may fit the "show me one great team" question. And they beat a team who is there in D2.

 

just a thought.

[BayouBear]

go fish-

 

I'll try again.

 

If you think that 8 out of 130 is good enough then you should agree that the DII State Duals should be limited to 2 teams. That would just about put the two divisions equal in terms of percentage representation at the State Duals.

 

Or perhaps the 64 man bracket you suggest would be a good idea. 64 out of 130 is about equal to 8 out of 18.

 

 

I don't understand why a DII diehard such as yourself should be concerned. You guys get to send around 50% of the DII teams to the State Duals and 100% of the wrestlers to the traditional. Whereas the DI schools send 6% of the teams to the State Duals and less than 25% of the wrestlers to the Traditional. A DII equivalent of the 64 man bracket would mean a serious reduction in State Tournament participation for DII wrestlers.

 

Interestingly enough, I don't have any problem whatsoever with the number of DII participants in either tournament and I have never heard anyone else have a negative comment. My issue is with the DI Dual Tournament only. The field should be enlarged.

Edited February 5, 2004 by BayouBear

[gofish]

Bayou, I'll try again

 

Just b/c there are more teams in D1(130ish) does not mean there are more than 8 good teams that need to go to state duals.

 

Having good, par, and sub par teams wrestle at state duals just cause D1 has an abundance of teams is ridiculous.

 

The best teams will be there this weekend in both public and private. No one team that has a good shot was left out.

 

OK, that being said.....Yes Cleveland deserves to be at State Duals more so the MUS....but public schools wanted to be seperate, so deal with it.

[texas23]

If that is the logic, which I agree with most of it, then Cleveland should be there more so than ...let's say Notre Dame and MUS.

 

Also,,,the percentages of representation do not need to be equal, that is a weak argument. However, the number of teams could easily be argued for a higher number.

[best_of_the_west]

Nothing against Maryville or Science Hill, but Cleveland is probably better than these two programs this year. It all depends on whether the state tournament's purpose is to find the best team or the top 2 teams or the top 4, etc. I know that we would consider it an honor and an accomplishment to finish in the top 4. Not everone can be Bradley Central. Good luck and see you tommorow.

[texas23]

Botw,,,,I agree that Cleveland would beat those two teams from the east side, but the question was posed to which team that did not make it should. Gofish wanted an example and that was a very accurate one.

 

BTW,,,Cleveland, in my opinion, would do some damage and most likely win against some of your beloved west teams as well, even this year.

[walkenvol]

Mills - I may be completely wrong on this, but IMHO at the traditional tourney the wrestlers are there to win an individual title/medal, how the team scores is secondary to the wrestlers. However, I think the "team title" at the traditional tourney is viewed as a championship for the coaches. Just look at the program at this year's state tourney. It lists all the individual winners by name back to the very begining. It also lists the team champions with the coach's name, no mention of the 12 to 14 wrestlers who actually scored the points. At the traditional tourney, how many coaches require their wrestlers to stay at the venue to support their teammates in the consulations? At the duals, they advance based on the performance of the group which to me is a better reflection of the team concept. I think that your right that the team scoring will never be dropped from the traditional tourney because the folks that would vote it out are the same one's who most want it to remain. Show me one ex wrestler who when asked how he did at the state will say that "my team won" before he says "I placed ____".

[best_of_the_west]

Tex, what do you mean? I don't see how that applies. I thought we were discussing how to get the best teams to state duals, but I didn't really read all of the posts. You could make a novel out of the conversations on this thread. I think Bartlett and Ridgeway would put up a good fight against Cleveland. I think Collierville would beat them. Also, it's pretty obvious that D2 has more talent per capita than D1. That's just accepted. For that reason, I don't see a problem with D2 taking the same number of teams to state duals. Also, just because a school has a program, doesn't mean they have a team, or a full team at least. Probably much more than half of the D1 schools do not have a full line up. Just a thought.

Edited February 5, 2004 by best_of_the_west

[jcu]

the argument about the best 8 teams being their is absurd. I believe Kenwood and Rossview could beat at least one or two of the participants in this weekends tourny. What about last year. I have no doubt that Clevelan was the second best DI school in the state, but were not able to wrestle in the state duals. It does us no good to complain unless there is something we, as coaches, can change about the state duals. Personally, I see nothing wrong with letting one winner from each region to the duals, but if you are going to place the top four, then the top four teams in the state should be in attendance.

I believe that they are this year, but last year they were not. Even this year, if we go by TN USA rankings, then the fourth ranked team in D1 is not particpating in the duals.

[WrestleSBA]

I just want to throw it all on out there for the last time:

 

I wish everyone luck this weekend at the duals, I will not be able to attned unfortunately but I look forward to hearing the results and the debates that are sure to spring from there.

 

I also have to say that I think right now we do have a fairly adequate system for keeping the divisions, however I do think that it would be good to expand the DI to a 16 team bracket. This might take more time but I don't think there is a wrestler or coach out there who would mind it if it settled some of these issues for everyone. Now I only coach in the DII but down here we wrestle a lot of DI schools and I have a lot of repect for the DI coaches that I know. I have also seen some DI teams from the middle of the state and I have nothing but good things to say about them as well. I think if the DI coaches can come to some sort of an agreement they should be able to get something done.

 

I think the situation in DII is about as good as it is going to get and nobody should be looking to change it because there is just not a more viable way to do it. Besides it gives a lot of our kids a chance to experience something they may not have seen otherwise.

 

Goodluck to everyone and let those of us unfortunate enough not to be able to go know what happens.

[ijtx]

At the traditional tourney, how many coaches require their wrestlers to stay at the venue to support their teammates in the consulations? 

 

 

 

ND does.

Edited February 5, 2004 by ijtx