State Duals format

[BayouBear]

Too late.

[LAUDERDALE]

gofish, what is unfair about Public VS Public and Private VS Private.

 

What can be viewed as unfair are small (enrollment) VS large (enrollment) schools.

 

In every other sport, schools are divided, based on enrollment, into regions. This allows schools of similar size to compete against one another. I mean, come one, even bowling (no offense intended against the sport) is divided into small/large divisions.

 

The arguement that "there are not enough schools that offer wrestling" or "Tennessee should have only 1 champion" just does not hold water anymore.

 

GA, AL, KY, FL, NC, VA, wrestling schools are divided into classifications that allow similar sized schools to compete agaist one another for state championships.

 

Football in Tennessee has 7 State Champions. (5 Public and 2 Private). There are between 50-60 teams in each division. Each team that won a state title this year deserved it. The were the best team in their classification.

 

Establishing an A and AA divisions for wrestling could only help the sport in Tennessee. More schools would be inclined to pick it up and more kids would participate in it. Also, the sport would receive alot more media attention.

 

I SEE NO NEGATIVES TO ESTABLISHING TWO DIVISIONS FOR OUR PUBLIC HIGH SCHOOL WRESTLING PROGRAMS. IT WOULD BE ALL POSITIVE.

[takedown42]

TDArtist, I read this and immediately thought back to the post by cbg on the thread Dream Team. He asserted that we want to make everyone happy and make them all feel good. Let us create a division for all the Private schools, large private schools, small private schools, and even smaller private schools, large public schools, small public schools, even smaller public schools, and even very small public schools. Does this cover everybody who wants to win a championship? Probably not! It all boils down to coaches coaching the kids they have, and make the best of the situation they have. After moving down here a number of years ago, I have noticed how many coaches complain about their situations and how unfair it is. They have the theory of "Its always greener on the other side". Well it isn't. I have a close friend who coaches in California and they, the largest state, have just one state tournament for all schools which include both private, public, large schools and small schools. They are not complaining, they are very proud of their system. I think a lesson that needs to be learned here in Tennessee.

[MillsHalf]

TD42,

Couldn't agree more. I wasn't in state for long before the split came. Didn't see the last two united tournaments but friends described exciting events to me. I've seen united tournaments work. Too many tournaments dilutes the product.

[LAUDERDALE]

Then why not have 1 College division. Public, Private, DI, DII, DIII, NAIA, ...

 

Is having so many NCAA Champions hurting our sport? I don't think so.

 

Within our sport we have a division that allows equal size athletes to compete against one another. Why can't the same be done for school teams?

 

I have friends that coach in FL, VA, AL, and GA. They all agree that classification has been good for wrestling in their state.

[BayouBear]

Coach Lauderdale makes a valid point.

 

TD42 and MILLS- Why are there divisions in all the other sports? Everyone needs to be looking past their front porch before forming an opinion.

 

Single division and single class participation is not a level playing field and there is no evidence you can present that will show otherwise. Sure, it is exciting from a fan perspective to see the best play the best, but that has zero to do with this subject.

[gofish]

Takedown42...well said

 

More divisions wouldn't help. College is a different story. This is a TN state tourney, not the NCAAs.

 

The more divisions you create, the weaker the system becomes. Have 5 or 6 state champs is ridiculous.

[MillsHalf]

BB,

I don't dispute everything Coach L states. I would take exception to the issue about one collegiate division. DIII student-athletes typically go to schools that don't offer athletic scholarships. Those kids got into college on their academic performance; athletics is a co-curricular for them (not a primary focus). It's understandable that they would be separated. One reason (among many) why the U of Wisconsin doesn't compete with Ripon College.

 

The argument following this post is that DII schools in TN give "athletic scholarships." I don't buy it. That topic has been beaten to death the last year and half on this board so I hope I'm not opening up a can of worms. (Believe me, I don't plan on starting a new thread on that dead subject.) Until someone starts listing names of students, dollar amounts, and tangible evidence that kids are getting paid for athletics, I won't buy it. I continue to believe that too many divisions dilutes the product. I also think our sport differs from football and basketball (where there are many divisions). Nonetheless, I can appreciate the arguments of the schools and coaches advocating that arrangement.

[walkenvol]

Slow down, your taking this the wrong way. Bayou is asking what might make the Duals championship more exciting, better attended, and accessable to more teams. Before there was a D2, the state duals had a small school division (I believe Cleveland and Chat Central were winners) and a large school division. The traditional tourney was not split along those lines. The possibility of a 14 man "Hoosiers" type of team coming from a small high school that can compete with the Bradleys and Soddys of the world is highly unlikely regardless of the commitment level of the coaches and wrestlers. IMHO, the best of both worlds would be to split the duals into the 3 divisions mentioned with a venue sized to accomodate the crowd and the traditional individual tourney to be unified with the restriction that all participants be Tennessee residents and not keep a team score.

[MillsHalf]

W,

I think we can agree to disagree on this one. I respect your view on the 3 divisions for duals. I most certainly agree that all venues need to be able to accommodate the event. A 3 division event would take the Duals out of Clarksville. We'd need to use a college/university gym. I disagree with your distinctions on the traditional tourney. Although, if it could reunite the event, I could be persuaded.

[LAUDERDALE]

I am not saying we need 6 State Champions. For now, a division of the Public schools into an A and AA would suffice. If they allow the private schools are allowed to return and compete against us, then I still say 2 will suffice.

 

I know we are not talking about the NCAA's but the comparison can be made.

 

It was 9 years ago when I became a head wrestling coach. Back then, the argument was that a Tennessee State Wrestling Champion should be from the state of Tennessee. They didn't mean born and raised, they simply meant that their families should live in the state of Tennessee. The point centered around a kid, whose family lived in New Jersey, won the Tennessee State Tournament. I may, or they may, have had their facts wrong, but that is the argument made back then.

 

The argument that football coaches, and I am one, make to defend the 7 state championships awarded this years, all center around the word "fairness!"

 

Whats good for the Goose, is Good for ther Gander!

[BayouBear]

Please...reread the original post!

 

This has nothing to do with the current classes or divisions. My point is....In the present environment of a single class Public Division and a single class Private Division, the DI State Dual Tournament should include Region winners and Region Runnerups. There are around 130 DI wrestling schools and less than 20 DII wrestling schools but the same number (8) of teams are allowed the experience of the State Duals tournament. I don't see that as being fair and equal.

 

walkenvol- Upon further thought....I like the large class and small class idea but the line should be drawn a lot further down than it was before. I'm thinking something like the bottom 35-40% based on enrollment of the 130 DI schools.

 

I guess my idea of a perfect State Duals would be 24 teams.

 

DII - 8 teams current format

DI Large - 16 teams (8 Region winners and 8 runnerups)

DI Small - 8 teams