Evaluation: Where are we now...

[supersteve17]

You are probably correct in your statement, it is found more in your Div. II than in Div. I. But I still do not see where someone can conclude that private students are more motivated to participate than their public counterparts. I have coached at one of the best private schools in the state as well as some of the best public schools in the state, I can honestly say that participation or number of players on the sideline has little to do with the success of the program. Tyner doesn't have lots of numbers, but seem to be a very competitive program in 2-A while Lipscomb has more numbers and are also competitive. Depth is mostly important as you move up in classification. Your school is a good example, Boyd has competed against higher competition and has been very successful. The difference is Boyd beats East Ridge and Rhea Co. then plays Lookout Valley and Copper Basin. Boyds schedule has a few region breathers while Rhea is facing Red Bank and Cleveland in their region. It takes more depth to compete week after week than it does to have to compete every other week. I really believe that Brentwood Academy had an advantage playing AA during there domination years. Their district schedule at the time gave them a chance to stay healthy for the play-offs and to compete against a couple of good teams during the regular season to prepare for a run at the state title. I think you would have to admit that depth at Rhea Co. may be a little bit better than Boyd. Small private schools may have lots of numbers, but that doesn't mean there is lots of talent in those numbers. Plus some of these small privates dress some of there Eighth graders during a varsity game. I am just not sold that participation is a great factor in success. Just because your chicken house is full of eggs doesn't mean you will have alot of chickens.

Now you've done it! Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

[mustang69]

Depth does matter.

[ELA]

Depth does matter.

Depth is extremely important! I have a saying, "Your only as good as your 3rd string guards."

 

Every time my teams get down to the 6th or 7th game of the season, injuries to the offensive line sometime make the difference between winning and losing! During the football season, your first string OL gets 60-65% of the reps in practice, your 2nd string guards get 25-30% of the reps, and in the heat of the season you may end up moving kids around and all of a sudden you find yourself with a 3rd and short in week nine and there goes a kid into the huddle who hasn't received more than 5% of the reps in practice throughout the season!

[Baldcoach]

Depth does matter.

 

I think what Gov is saying is that there is a difference between numbers and true depth. I would agree that teams with greater depth certainly can gain an advantage later in the season or later in a game...given that the depth players are really players. Sometimes, however, teams field large numbers of players but really don't have a lot of athletes. So the number of players dressing is probably a good indicator of depth but it doesn't ALWAYS mean that the team has any real players after their starters.

 

I can tell you that if a 1a team and a 4a team field the same number of players the 4a team almost certainly has more depth...more true athletes at the back-up positions. And that is really what we are talking about...not necessarily depth of numbers but numbers or good (or even decent) athletes...right?

 

Gov, sorry if I put the wrong slant on this...is this what you were saying?

[ELA]

I can tell you that if a 1a team and a 4a team field the same number of players the 4a team almost certainly has more depth...more true athletes at the back-up positions. And that is really what we are talking about...not necessarily depth of numbers but numbers or good (or even decent) athletes...right?

I think you had more depth this year than we did! You certainly had more players in uniform than we had when we played. My guess is if you had played Central or Cleveland, you're analogy would work, but in our game, my guess is you had more athletes in depth. Of course, this is not true with all private school teams. Notre Dame certainly doesn't have a lot of depth, and I'm sure there are other private schools who don't carry much depth, but anytime you can get more athletes in the program with the resources to develop them, it helps your program reload for the next season and overcome injuries throughout the season.

[Baldcoach]

ELA,

 

I thought you guys had some pretty good athletes. I don't think we had more athletic depth than you guys all around. Schools like Boyd tend to have a lot of skill players...wide outs, utility backs, D-secondary types. We certainly had those guys running out the wazoo. In fact, we had so many of them that we converted a couple of the larger ones (150 pounders lol) into outside linebackers!

 

On the other hand we were not deep in linemen. Or, for that matter, the kind of big-fast-strong kids that you guys had a lot of (and usually play linebacker/fullback/tight-end type positions). It's usually that way with us...plenty of soccer types, not so many in the trenches guys. I know you noticed that our kids tended to be smaller/lighter than yours, especially in the line/linebacker positions.

 

So we probably outnumbered you guys heavily in pretty good little fast guys...and were outnumbered by the bigger stronger guys on your team. I know you guys beat us up worse than anyone else we played as far as just a physical pounding. We went through several strings in a couple of positions.

Edited February 21, 2004 by Baldcoach

[ELA]

ELA,

 

I thought you guys had some pretty good athletes. I don't think we had more athletic depth than you guys all around. Schools like Boyd tend to have a lot of skill players...wide outs, utility backs, D-secondary types. We certainly had those guys running out the wazoo. In fact, we had so many of them that we converted a couple of the larger ones (150 pounders lol) into outside linebackers!

 

On the other hand we were not deep in linemen. Or, for that matter, the kind of big-fast-strong kids that you guys had a lot of (and usually play linebacker/fullback/tight-end type positions). It's usually that way with us...plenty of soccer types, not so many in the trenches guys. I know you noticed that our kids tended to be smaller/lighter than yours, especially in the line/linebacker positions.

 

So we probably outnumbered you guys heavily in pretty good little fast guys...and were outnumbered by the bigger stronger guys on your team. I know you guys beat us up worse than anyone else we played as far as just a physical pounding. We went through several strings in a couple of positions.

We had almost NO depth on the Line! We graduated all but two our our OL from 2002 and this year those two graduated, so we will be starting over on the line! I don't think the score really supported what happened on the field, but even your second string scored on our first unit! You guys did have lots of depth at all of the skill positions and I would rather have the smaller linemen (180-220) if they will work hard in the weight room and better themselves!

[Baldcoach]

This reminds me of the old UT/Auburn pre-game week. Both coaches talking about how weak their teams were lol. I agree that the score was one of those weird ones that was WAYYY out of proportion to how the teams matched up. We got several big plays early...the second half was pretty even if I remember it correctly.

 

I don't know what personnel you guys had. Here was our line at the time.

 

Center - 150 lb Sophomore first year starter. No backup

Guards - 180 pound Senior/doubled as middle linebacker (Davis) and 225 pound Senior/doubled as DE (Beagles) Backup = Freshmen

Tackles - 210 pound Sophomore first year starter and 225 pound Sophomore first year starter. Backup = same Freshmen as the guards lol.

TE (when we used one) - 180 pound Senior/doubled as DE (Yother) no backup

 

Later in the season another guard became eligible so Davis went to backup guard. In the playoffs our Senior Center who had had acl reconstruction was cleared to play and played the last 4 games.

 

On the other hand we had 5 or 6 QBs at the time and about 25 Wideouts lol.

[ELA]

On the other hand we had 5 or 6 QBs at the time and about 25 Wideouts lol.

With my spread offense, that would have been nice! IF I have four wide receivers in my formations and we're running VERTICAL STRETCH PLAYS 70% of the time (Pass and Draw), it would be nice to have three sets of receivers to sprint 40 yards down field every play, rotating fresh legs every play with a couple of solid TB's in the backfield!!

[Gov]

Gov, sorry if I put the wrong slant on this...is this what you were saying?

 

That is the correct slant, most of the time at small schools, the back-up may be a sophmore or freshman, where as you move up in class it is probably another senior or at least a junior. What everyone needs to realize is that numbers on the sideline doesn't always add up to the players in the program. Lots of 5-A as well as top programs throughout classification have a varsity squad along with J.V. with a seperate freshman team. By providing these programs participation increases. Programs lacking a freshman squad will not get alot of freshman out. In these programs players may not come out for the program untill there sophmore or junior year. There are lots of reasons why programs are not able to provide seperate teams; lack of coaching supplements, financial resorces, or facilities all may be a cause. Once again, motivation for students to participate is based on many factors in thier environment, it transcends public or private issues.

[Indian]

Here's a fact: Looking at the roster of the 7th and 8th grade team here from a couple of years ago. These players are 10th and 11th graders this school year. That team was something like 7-2 or 8-1, finished second in the title game of the conference that has 10 teams including feeders for teams like Rhea County, South Pittsburg and North Jackson AL. I recall a few games of 28-0, 35-0 halftime leads, and remember those are in eight minute quarters. The team had 26 players in 2 grades, that would be like a 52 player high school team which would be a coach's dream if all or most played to their potential. But out of those 26, only 9 were on the high school team here this year. I don't think that can all be blamed on coaches and inability to get players out. They were out, now they're not, that's the point.

[Baldcoach]

Here's a fact: Looking at the roster of the 7th and 8th grade team here from a couple of years ago. These players are 10th and 11th graders this school year. That team was something like 7-2 or 8-1, finished second in the title game of the conference that has 10 teams including feeders for teams like Rhea County, South Pittsburg and North Jackson AL. I recall a few games of 28-0, 35-0 halftime leads, and remember those are in eight minute quarters. The team had 26 players in 2 grades, that would be like a 52 player high school team which would be a coach's dream if all or most played to their potential. But out of those 26, only 9 were on the high school team here this year. I don't think that can all be blamed on coaches and inability to get players out. They were out, now they're not, that's the point.

 

Indian,

 

If it can't be blamed on an inability to get players out then what should we attribute the 67% attrition rate to? did 17 players die or move, or are they still there and just not playing?

 

Losing more than 50% of the players off of a good middle school team sure makes winning at the high-school level a tough row to hoe. Surely there is something that can be done to keep those kids out?