Brentwood Academy Coaching Change

[jek]

Redtwin Posted on May 10 2004 - 01:18 PM

The first year enrollment apparently didnt hurt MBA. Mr. Gioia said that admissions could not have been better and that MBA only missed on a handful of boys they wanted, which has pretty much been the case for the past 100 years.

 

WesVols Posted on May 8 2004 - 10:50 AM

My guess is they'll gather all the students who usually leave Ensworth MS to head to MBA or Harpeth Hall -- a significant demographic, but one that will affect MBA much more than BA.

 

If Ensworth is not pulling kids from BA and MBA, then why do so many people seem concerned about Ensworth relegating the current powers to second class

status?

[Redtwin]

I don't think anyone closely related to either BA or MBA would say that they felt threatened by Ensworth. They may feel the competition, but they aren't threatened. In my opinion, Ensworth was started by a small core of people who feel that Ensworth is the best place in TN, sort of in a cultish way, and outside of those people, no one really feels the same way. Ensworth probably will get a couple of kids a year MBA would like to have, but I don't see any large numbers leaving MBA, BA, or CPA to go to Ensworth.

[WesVLT]

Ditto. I don't know anyone who's worried...most people are happy to gain a new competitor. Brentwood Academy seldom sees Ensworth grads walking their halls, so the effect will be very minor. And though it will affect MBA more than BA, Redtwin echoes their feelings about the matter. Over time Ensworth will grow and become a force, but not enough to seriously threaten other Nashville private schools. Still, even if it were a threat, there would be no ill will from BA, MBA, or anyone else.

Edited May 11, 2004 by WesVols

[AintSkeerd59]

As an incredibly biased outsider to this discussion, I would like to say that it is always good to have thoughtful and supportive comments made by CoachT members (WesVols) and it isn't hard to tell which members are close-minded and stubborn(Fumanchu). But I can't talk about Ensworth.

[Manzikert]

Just found this thread. Ensworth will need good coaches, because they face some tough challenges. The biggest one is numbers. Their web site says HS classes will be about 120 kids-- that's 60 boys. MBA has more than 100 boys in a class, as do McCallie, Christian Bros, Ryan and MUS-- don't know about BA. Also-- high academic standards-- I hear they turned down a number of boys that MBA took this year--- & just look at Vanderbilt for an example of how tough it is to compete, esp in football, if your academic standards are the toughest in the league. However, its also true that 8 or 9 of MBA's starters this year were Ensworth graduates, and I also hear that none of Ensworth's 8th graders this year are going to MBA--- and Ensworth had an undefeated football team last fall. Also, the city is growing-- more talent for everybody. Lots of great coaches--- Flatt, Bowers, Rutledge--- not to mention the guys in Memphis and Chattanooga--- the private school kids work hard at conditioning etc. year round-- no surprise that DII has the best teams and best competition in the state-- should be fun to watch.

[Redtwin]

Also-- high academic standards-- I hear they turned down a number of boys that MBA took this year--- & just look at Vanderbilt for an example of how tough it is to compete, esp in football, if your academic standards are the toughest in the league. However, its also true that 8 or 9 of MBA's starters this year were Ensworth graduates, and I also hear that none of Ensworth's 8th graders this year are going to MBA

I heard the exact opposite of what you are saying. I was told that Ensworth was calling boys at Oak Hill and telling them to go to Ensworth because there would be less competition than at mba. they basically told them that they would ride the bench at mba, but not at ensworth. Also, I was told by a faculty member at mba that they got almost all of the kids that they wanted and that they did better than they had anticipated. There might have been 8 or 9 starters on mba's team this year, but that was never the case when I was there, and we always destroyed ensworth in almost every middle school sport (they're great at wrestling). I'm gonna hold my ground and say ensworth will have a minimal impact on mba.

[TheBigRedDog]

RedTwin is right on. I've spoken with three teachers at MBA and they said that they got every kid they wanted. I have heard its affected Harpeth Hall a little bit, but still not too much. Without getting too much into this, I must say that the academic standards at Ensworth will be very good, but not up to MBA standards. Also, Coach Bowers will do everything he can to get kids to go to Ensworth. It wouldn't surprise me if he was the one calling the Oak Hill kids . I've also heard he's tried extremely hard to keep all the Enswoth 8th graders(as he should) and several are headed to MBA anyway. I talked to Ricky at a wedding a few months ago and he was complaining about how unathletic the kids at Ensworth are. I thought it was pretty funny considering we were talking about 7th and 8th grade kids. He's probably already got them lifting . Also, Only 3-4 starters on my senior year team came from Ensworth.

[Manzikert]

I actually think we agree on most points---- and your comments support much of what I'm saying. Your middle school athletic experience for example, supports my point about numbers--- Ensworth's 8th grade classes were 50 or 60 kids up until last year-- 25 or 30 boys--- MBA's middle school classes were 70 or 80 boys-- you should've won most of the time, as you say you did. Also, those 25 or 30 were admitted at to the school at age 6---a little early to be picking good athletes, even if you're trying-- which I doubt they do----- easier when you're admitting 7th graders. Ensworth is now admitting some kids at 7th grade, and, obviously at 9th grade, so maybe there will be some evening up--- but 60 against 100 is still very tough odds--- so, as I said--- those coaches had better be as good as their reputations if Ensworth is going to compete, at least in football.---- On the admissions front, I'm pretty confident of my sources--- and if your source is right, then the Oak Hill calls-- if there were any--- couldn't have mattered, since MBA still got the boys it wanted--- so the boys from Oak Hill who chose to to Ensworth must have been boys MBA didn't want---- although several dads told me that MBA accepted them--- which is odd if they didn't want them--- or maybe their dads weren't being truthful---- hard to say. As far as the MBA starters this year who were Ensworth grads-- it was at least 8 or 9--- you're probably right that this was a high number by past standards-- but there have been a number pretty good kids in the past-- both Rich brothers, Andrew Wilson, Cole Barfield, Cook Wylly and Jack Turner to name a few. Anyway-- you're probably right about the football competition in the future--- I'd bet that way, in any case---- on other fronts, competition is a good thing-- as I said before, it will be fun to watch.

[rollredroll]

The biggest one is numbers. Their web site says HS classes will be about 120 kids-- that's 60 boys.

 

I, too, have heard conflicting information, mine coming from an unbiased source (a graduate of neither Ensworth Middle nor MBA) indicating that EHS had to let in students who didn’t necessarily “fit the mold” they are trying to create due to a lack of applicants. I do know that in EHS’s initial press release, classes of 120-125 were mentioned; however, in a subsequent interview with the Nashville City Paper, someone with the school said she would be happy with an initial class of 75 (Link). I also noted from the school website that the school apparently continued to accept applications past predetermined deadlines. Read into all of this what you want.

 

Also-- high academic standards-- I hear they turned down a number of boys that MBA took this year--- & just look at Vanderbilt for an example of how tough it is to compete, esp in football, if your academic standards are the toughest in the league.

 

MBA’s academic standards are the toughest in the league. They’ve done OK in football – six title game appearances, five titles, three USA Today Top 25s in seven years. And they’ve done it with well-rounded student-athletes – the Class of 2004 led the state with 21 National Merit Semifinalists and 16 Commended Students, and five of those also happened to be on the football team (not to mention the fact the list includes the school’s #1 tennis player and starters on numerous other athletic teams, including baseball and lacrosse).

 

 

Ensworth will be a fine school, there is no disputing that, and contrary to what some idiots who have previously posted on this thread have opined (not you, Manzikert), there is a decent segment of MBA supporters out there that hopes EHS does well, particularly those with no ties to Ensworth Middle but who have sons and daughters, with EHS being a potential destination for their daughters. However, the only problem I have with discussions regarding Ensworth is conversation that implies the demise of MBA (and other schools in town). MBA has been around for 140 years; there will be no towels thrown in the ring at 4001 West End Avenue.

Edited June 14, 2004 by rollredroll

[7059527176]

BA now averages around 50 boys a class and that number is way up from the past, aka BA's glory days, it's not the quantity it's the quality and the development of these players that matters.

[Manzikert]

Wow--- obviously a topic near and dear to some folks hearts--- do you guys have jobs? Because I'm going to lose mine if I try to keep up with pace of responses--- so I think I'll just say a few things and then shut up and listen. First--- to rollredroll's point, I sure wasn't suggesting the demise of MBA, BA or anybody else, in fact, I thought I was suggesting just the opposite---- my point was what a tough challenge Ensworth faces even trying to compete in football with programs with the sort of numbers, history and tradition that the other DII AAA teams have--- I don't even know if they'll try--- just from a numbers standpoint, they're closer to BGA size than to the Super 7 schools. This is a football discussion board, so all the admissions, academic standards stuff (some of which I admit I started) may be off topic--- although it does make a difference on competitiveness, so maybe not--- so--- my parting shots on those fronts are--- Looking at the EHS web site and reading the qualifications of the faculty that's been hired, I'm not sure how bigreddog can so confidently conclude that EHS' academic standards will not be as high or higher than MBA's--- I know from talking to the school's leaders that their objective is to have the highest standards in the region. Competition is a good thing on that front too. Regarding admissions, EHS was very clear throughout the admissions process that their classes would be 100-120 at capacity, but that they'd budgeted for an initial class of 75-- which is what the article rollredroll links says------ I thought that was smart, since its pretty tough to sell a brand new program, in a school that's under construction. However, they're building all the buildings-- more than 200,000 sq ft, to open in the fall, so if they get more than 75 good kids, they can take them--- they were very clear about that as well. My sources--- and again, I'm very confident they know what they're talking about say a) they've got 79 kids now, all very well qualified, a couple from HH and BA, none from MBA, they got a number of kids from Harding and other schools who were also admitted to MBA--- they also lost some kids to MBA, HH ,USN and boarding school that they would really like to have gotten; they turned down several kids who were admitted to MBA, Harpeth Hall and/or USN--- maybe they were wrong on the kids and the other schools were right, I don't know, can't be sure, but based on talks with parents, they didn't take anybody that MBA or HH turned down, c) 45 of 56 Ensworth 8th graders are going to EHS d) 4 applied to MBA, all got in, none are going-- 2 going to EHS, 1 to USN and 1 to boarding school, d) Last year (and just about every year in the past) more than 20 Ensworth kids went to both MBA and Harpeth Hall, a few went to USN, BA, boarding schools etc; e) they expect to open school in the fall with between 80 and 85 9th graders; f) (my comment not theirs) there is not likely to be a single serious college athlete prospect in the bunch, but there are some really outstanding students. That's all I know-- or even think I know---- and its only tangentially related to football, and, as I said, I have to get back to my job, so I'm done, except to say that Nashville really is lucky to have so many great schools, and that one of the reasons they're great is because people care so deeply about them-- so everybody keep it up-- all this change will just make everybody better, it won't kill anybody--- and its good for the city.

[rollredroll]

First--- to rollredroll's point, I sure wasn't suggesting the demise of MBA, BA or anybody else

 

I understand - it may have seemed that I was lumping you in since I quoted you, but I was referring to others (one or two posters) on this thread.

Edited June 14, 2004 by rollredroll