God & Football

[Indian]

Nobody is saying anyone can't, the legal questions are whether it should be organized by the school on taxpayer supported property (football stadium, in front of the school at the flagpole) or led by a taxpayer-paid school system employee (coach). If I had a problem with it (I don't though it may sound that way) and I was a taxpayer in a certain community I could claim since I help pay the coach's salary and helped pay for the school then I don't want it going on (the organized by the school and teacher-led parts). I don't think the students having their own prayer, before the game, at halftime, after, should ever be stopped if they want it, though I do think some students would participate even if they didn't feel comfortable just so they would be part of the group.

[Tezcatlipoca]

Look folks, as I've said time and time again, I'm just reporting the facts here. If you do not like our laws, then use the democratic process to your advantage and vote for a Representative or Senator who shares your views/thoughts. Otherwise, go live in China, where they make sure you follow the rules.

[Croach]

God and everything is a good mix.

[ELA]

I had a feeling this thread was going to in-flame some passion when I first read it. Look... everyone has a right to their views on this subject and it is interesting to debate, the only problem is EVERYONE ASSUMES THEIR RELIGION or VERSION is the CORRECT ONE! This is why our founding fathers left Europe! England had just spent many years fighting a bloody civil war between Catholics and Protestants (plus various protestant groups had been killing each other as well). You have no less than 136 years of war in Europe since the Protestant movement began that led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Christians (Catholic and Protestant). Our founding fathers wanted to create a Constitutional Framework that would embrace almost everyone while also limiting the role of government in Religion and our daily life. At least three of the framers were not even Christians (by most of your standards) and so it was written with the intent of being somewhat vague about who the "Creator" or God was, thereby allowing everyone to interpret it to mean "their God" (Catholic, Various Protestant groups, Jewish, etc) when they read it. BY HAVING A MOMENT OF SILENCE at a public school game we hold up to the original intent of the Constitution. Everyone had a chance to PRAY or NOT PRAY as they see fit and to whom they see fit. This is simply the BEST WAY to insure the perfection of the Constitutional intent and to uphold the laws of the land. We do it in school every morning in Hamilton County Public Schools and it works. NO ONE'S RIGHT TO PRAY is infringed upon, and at the same time, those who do not pray, may stand quietly while others do so. The same can be true at athletic competitions and everyone's rights can be protected in this manner!

 

I have coached football teams with Methodists, Church of Christ, Baptists, Episcopalians, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Pentecostals, Presbyterians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Unitarians, Catholics, Church of God, independents, charismatics, "snake handlers," and many non-believers. To which of these God's would you like for your son to pray when he is in my care? The only way I can insure that everyone is happy is to allow for a moment of silence and allow each to pray to his own. They are all citizens of America and are all protected under our Constitution!

Edited April 13, 2004 by ELA

[mctigersportsfan]

I feel that God should be in everybodys life in some form, fashion or manner. Without God none of the things that we enjoy daily would be possible. AS a parent if I had a child participating any any sport on any level I personally would appreciate a coach/adminstrator that would give my child and anyone elses child a chance to thank his/her God before, during or after any event whether it be sports or a simple field trip.

 

 

Marshall County has an open prayer before every sporting event. At football games it is a very meticulously (sp) prepared prayer that I believe was prepared for the school board by lawyers for the school board.

 

 

Maybe other administrations should look into this, if they are afraid of steepping on someones toes.

 

Like I said above, we owe all things to God. I don't care if you're black,white yellow, red or orange. That is the facts................

[gopher15]

For everyone who is so gung-ho on a moment of silence- Does this not infringe on people's rights just as much as a prayer. They are forced to sit in silence if they do not believe in prayer. Forced to acknowledge that there may be some people who feel differently then they do. The bottom line is you will never make everyone happy no matter what you do. Soemone will always find a way to pity themselves for being different and find a way to make everyone else suffer because of it. That is what makes America a great place! Eventually no one will be allowed to talk about anything because it might offend someone else. The PA announcer will have to be silent because someone in the stands disagrees with who made the tackle on the last play. We can just have a lifetime of silence instead of just a moment of silence. Come to think of it that doesn't sound half bad!!

[ELA]

Marshall County has an open prayer before every sporting event. At football games it is a very meticulously (sp) prepared prayer that I believe was prepared for the school board by lawyers for the school board. Maybe other administrations should look into this, if they are afraid of steepping on someones toes.

Tigerfan... As a coach at a public school, I think it is appropriate to do something; however, as a paid employee of a public school... I must also set an example by OBEYING THE LAWS OF THE UNITED STATES. I may not always agree with the law, nevertheless, I can't and shouldn't break the law in front of my students. This is why each school district must decide for themselves what is allowable and how much legal risk they are willing to take in this regard. I know of at least ONE HEAD FOOTBALL COACH who was fired by a school board for saying a prayer with his football team after a game. He is now a principal at another school in a different school system. The question always boils down to what is right for EVERYONE?

 

Let me poise a question to everyone: Let's say that your son's football coach is a practicing Buddhist. Would it be appropriate for him to have a small statue of the Buddha in his office or in the corner of the locker room? Would you want him talking to your children about becoming Buddhists? I ALREADY KNOW YOUR ANSWER! YOU WOULD SAY... NO! This is what we must all understand... SCHOOL BOARDS can't ask one's religious affiliation when they hire teachers or coaches (nor should they); likewise, we all worship and express our love for God in different ways! This is what America is all about!

Edited April 13, 2004 by ELA

[ELA]

For everyone who is so gung-ho on a moment of silence-  Does this not infringe on people's rights just as much as a prayer.  They are forced to sit in silence if they do not believe in prayer. The bottom line is you will never make everyone happy no matter what you do. 

Gopher... The Supreme Court has already said that a moment of silence DOES NOT VIOLATE THE CONSTITUTIONAL SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE BECAUSE IT DOES NOT RECOGNIZE any official religion. It is not a matter of if it offends anyone, the question is what is LEGAL?

 

P.S. I know a lot of PA announcers I would love to just turn off!

Edited April 13, 2004 by ELA

[gopher15]

Gopher... The Supreme Court has already said that a moment of silence DOES NOT VIOLATE THE CONSTITUTIONAL SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE BECAUSE IT DOES NOT RECOGNIZE any official religion. It is not a matter of if it offends anyone, the question is what is LEGAL?

 

P.S. I know a lot of PA announcers I would love to just turn off!

The point here is that legal definitions change. 200 years ago it would have been ridiciulous to think that praying out loud by anyone would be banned. Today it is legally not allowed by certain people at certain times. All it takes is one person to create a fuss and the law will likely change again. Just think about the pledge of allegiance. Who would have believed even 25 years ago that the words under god would even be considered to be removed. My point is that in another 25-200 years who knows how much of our speech will be limited. Maybe we should just isolate everyone completely and limit their speech to internet message boards and then the coacht moderators will control the world! Because if they don't like what people write about assistant coaches, they can just lock it up and never let anyone have a good discussion again!!

[ELA]

Gopher... The Supreme Court has already said that a moment of silence DOES NOT VIOLATE THE CONSTITUTIONAL SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE BECAUSE IT DOES NOT RECOGNIZE any official religion.  It is not a matter of if it offends anyone, the question is what is LEGAL?

 

P.S. I know a lot of PA announcers I would love to just turn off! 

The point here is that legal definitions change. 200 years ago it would have been ridiciulous to think that praying out loud by anyone would be banned. Today it is legally not allowed by certain people at certain times. All it takes is one person to create a fuss and the law will likely change again. Just think about the pledge of allegiance. Who would have believed even 25 years ago that the words under god would even be considered to be removed. My point is that in another 25-200 years who knows how much of our speech will be limited. Maybe we should just isolate everyone completely and limit their speech to internet message boards and then the coacht moderators will control the world! Because if they don't like what people write about assistant coaches, they can just lock it up and never let anyone have a good discussion again!!

The Constitution is a "Living Document" that is to say that the Interpretation of it by the Courts allows it to grow and expand to meet the needs and demands of changing time. This is how the framers wanted it to be and this is how it is. Without this flexibility, it would not survive the test of time... after all it is a "Framework" from which all other laws and actions of government derive their just powers.

 

The Supreme Court has ruled on this matter and that is THE LAW OF THE LAND. If local school boards elect to disobey these laws, that is within their right to do so but they must be willing to pay the cost of litigation when someone points out that they have broken the law. The only way the law will be enforced is when people complain.

[JC4life]

When I started the thread I was not talking about prayer over the PA system.Personally I don`t think that it is needed,Christ said that when you pray don`t pray like the hypocrites in public for all to see,but pray in secret and your father who sees in secret will reward you openly (Matt 6:5-6).I`m not for a big long prayer before a football game,I can see how that can offend someone.I`m talking more about prayer before a game or before practice by the team.

[kick4pat]

THis country if you know anything about History was founded on the "Supremacy of God"......now if you were to go to any of these comunist countries......or countries that are Theocracies....then you would be killed for practacing anything but the religion they select...so just be thankful that you are in American and have the freedom of religion....Christians fled here for Religious Freedom, and this country once again was founded on the Supremacy of Jesus Christ...if you disagree, well then I'm sorry....but at least you will not be put in jail for practacing whatever yuo believe..... So concerning the fact regarding what Faith this country was founded on...I see no problem for prayer, or anything of that fashion.....see the Passion, it will change your life.........Romans 10:13