Whats with the refs?

[gotmilk?]

I have been to a few games this year and for the most part the refs were good, but you have to understand they are not perfect and they are going to miss some calls, but good teams can overcome the refs MOST OF THE TIME! The reason i say most of the time, because i have been to one game where the refs decided the game, not the players on the floor! Last year RBS boys basketball team and Westmoreland boys basketball team was playing at RBS and this one tall ref was very whistle happy against RBS and he was handing out technical like suckers to RBS! This game was called so poorly that the other two refs would not even talk to the ref that was making the bad calls and when he would make a call they would stand on the other end of the court and shake their heads! At one point it actually came close to getting out of control! And as I sit there watching what was taking place with this one ref, I was thinking to myself, is this what high school sports is coming too? Why would a ref just plain and clear to everyone even the other refs make theses calls? Is it personal? is it political? Why has something so pure turned into a revenge device against one team and why? Sure the fans were on his case, but what fans dont get on a refs case every once in a while? The only thing i was every told about the situation was that he had something against RBS and he didnt like the fans and yada yada, you get the point! In saying that, i am not saying that RBS would have beat Westmoreland, but boy it would have made for a good game wouldnt it? But i understand the refs have it hard so i try to take it easy on them! I dont think no one in Tennessee expects refs to be perfect, all we ask for is that they BE CONSISTANT! Good Luck to all!

Edited December 6, 2004 by gotmilk?

[o21putt]

options86,

 

Rude response, if it has to get personal, maybe you should move on to something else. I guess that is just the way of the people today, be as rude as you can be and see what it leads to. By adjusting to the officiating in a game, that would mean that a player should adjust before they get 3 or 4 fouls. All of this talk is really wasted because nothing is going to change. So called fans have been complaining about officiating at sporting events for many years and will continue to do so. I guess if they can't play or coach they might as well complain about the officials. Probably just the good ole American way. Also someone elses fault, never my fault. Maybe we should put that on our money in the future.

[options86]

options86,

 

Rude response, if it has to get personal, maybe you should move on to something else.  I guess that is just the way of the people today, be as rude as you can be and see what it leads to.  By adjusting to the officiating in a game, that would mean that a player should adjust before they get 3 or 4 fouls.  All of this talk is really wasted because nothing is going to change.  So called fans have been complaining about officiating at sporting events for many years and will continue to do so.  I guess if they can't play or coach they might as well complain about the officials.  Probably just the good ole American way.  Also someone elses fault, never my fault.  Maybe we should put that on our money in the future.

825469796[/snapback]

 

 

You are right we can't change, but we can vent and share stories. Like I said if you was not there you cannt possibly understand how obvious it was. There was no adjusting. As for rude response, maybe you overlooked your first response, it had no substance and was directed personally.

[Storm55]

Here's a word on T. to the ref

in case you boys are deaf

you better start making the call

before some unlucky girl takes a fall

 

And TSSAA needs to hire some boys so slim

and rid the fat morons that keep on drinking jim

and call the game right on any court

not just for the team trying to hold their fort.

 

so next time the whistle blows

call both ways or I'll bust your nose

just ask Ronnie Hodge

a mountain city fist he couldn't dodge

 

so who knows, I might wear a striped suit

if a fan messes with me, I'll just give him the boot

and just remember when a game gets out of hand

dream of sipping iced tea on the winter Floridian sand!

[gshoops75]

I have played under, coached in, and reffed for the TSSAA. I have read over all the posts in this thread thus far, and have the following comments.

 

1. First, this thread comes up every year around this time, once people have been to enough games, etc to get into official-bashing mode. That says enough about the finicky nature of our opinion on officials.

 

2. The majority of the posters seems to have a "conspiracy theory" type of attitude towards the officiating they get. Never in my days as a player or coach did I feel like an official was "out to get me" or "had a problem". Never in my days as an official did I go into a gym thinking, "I'm going to screw so and so". When a team loses, there are hundreds of reasons why and 99% of the time, those reasons have nothing to do with the refs. You may want to place the blame outwardly on the refs, but until you accept personal resposibility for the outcome(s), you will never be able to move forward as a coach/team/player/fan. I will grant you that 1% of the time that a late call (or missed) call in a close game could swing the outcome one way or the other. But, that's the nature of the sport. But, even with that, most forward-thinking, responsible coaches will tell you that there were "plenty of chances to win" earlier in the game before the call even became a factor.

 

3. Officiating is an interpretive science. By definition, that means that you take the events that you see, measure them against an accepted standard, interpret the results, and make a ruling - much like a judge would in court (that's why they call it an "opinion"). Thus, inherently, anytime you have an opinion passed down, there will be two segregated groups of people created, those that agree and those who do not. Those that agree are generally always those in whose favor the opinion goes in. Those that do not agree are those in whose favor the opinion goes against. Might want to get used to this fact, in basketball and in life.

 

4. As one poster interestingly noted, "Also supervisors need to be harder on their offcials when they mess up but its hard to when you are short handed anyway with the number of refs you have." This is very true. Most assigning officers have trouble, and alot of stress, finding enough warm bodies to cover the games. Believe me, they cringe at the thought of sending an inexperienced, relatively untrained official out to do a set of games - but what choice do they have? As the same poster says, "Everyone loves to complain about the offciating but no one wants to step up and do it themselves". How true. In the past, I've had people who moan and groan about the officiating, tell me "but, I wouldn't have your job". Go ask any assigning officer for any association in the state, and they'll tell you how excited they get when a new young person comes along that wants to officiate. There are few folks out there who meet the job description: able bodied, willing to travel and work nights, basketball knowledge a plus, experience preferred, but not required, opportunities for advancement limited, moderate pay. will NOT train, must not have children playing (so you are free on game nights), have desire to be cussed at, threatened, chased, and assaulted.

 

5. Officials love basketball and love the kids. That's why they are there. Certainly not for any other reason (see above job description). They cringe when someone gets hurt. They think about it all the way home when they miss a call, even if no one else noticed that they did. They also cringe when they see and hear elementary school and middle school aged kids taking pot-shots at the officials because that's what they hear and see their parents (and sometimes coaches) doing, because they know that cuts right into the fabric of the game at that age - which is sportsmanship, respect, and teamwork.

 

Hopefully, for the sake of the game, at some point the tide of finger pointing towards officials will ebb. It really makes me wonder who else these "finger pointers" blame their shortcomings (losses) on. If you fail a class, do you point at the teacher and say "they didn't like me'? Do you get passed over for a promotion and say, "so and so kissed up to the boss"? Are you unable to afford the car you want, and say "if Kerry had won, I could"? For once, maybe, do think it could be you? Your fault? Did you ask the teacher to stay after school to help you? Did you show up early to work and do more than the bare minimum asked of you? Did you take night classes so you could get the promotion and the raise? Fortnately, I was lucky enough to play for coaches and have parents that recognized that players and coaches win AND lost games - not officials. As soon as we wanted to complain about the officiating, they were always quick to point out what we (or I) could have done better to have affected the outcome - as much as they may have wanted to complain themselves. And, I am so thankful for that. It really makes basketball (and life) more enjoyable when you accept responsibility for the things you can control and free yourself from the frustration of complaining about those things which you cannot.

 

This might be the longest post in coacht history, but this is an issue that cuts right to the core of our game - the game I love and am concerned about. I hope everyone can filter, funnel, and accept resposibility for the bad things and enjoy the games this season. It's a great game when you look at it purely. Which, is how your 8 yr old sees it when they get on the court for the first time. Remember that? Wasn't it fun?

[o21putt]

gshoops75,

 

Great post, I am envious that I did not have the intelligence to express myself in the manner that you did. It would have been much better than my first post on this subject as options86 pointed out. Hopefully, we can all move on to something more constructive. Thanks for your insight

[UCSportsFan]

I have been to a few games this year and for the most part the refs were good, but you have to understand they are not perfect and they are going to miss some calls, but good teams can overcome the refs MOST OF THE TIME! The reason i say most of the time, because i have been to one game where the refs decided the game, not the players on the floor! Last year RBS boys basketball team and Westmoreland boys basketball team was playing at RBS and this one tall ref was very whistle happy against RBS and he was handing out technical like suckers to RBS! This game was called so poorly that the other two refs would not even talk to the ref that was making the bad calls and when he would make a call they would stand on the other end of the court and shake their heads! At one point it actually came close to getting out of control! And as I sit there watching what was taking place with this one ref, I was thinking to myself, is this what high school sports is coming too? Why would a ref just plain and clear to everyone even the other refs make theses calls? Is it personal? is it political? Why has something so pure turned into a revenge device against one team and why? Sure the fans were on his case, but what fans dont get on a refs case every once in a while?  The only thing i was every told about the situation was that he had something against RBS and he didnt like the fans and yada yada, you get the point! In saying that, i am not saying that RBS would have beat Westmoreland, but boy it would have made for a good game wouldnt it? But i understand the refs have it hard so i try to take it easy on them! I dont think no one in Tennessee expects refs to be perfect, all we ask for is that they BE CONSISTANT! Good Luck to all!

825469794[/snapback]

 

 

I noticed you don't mention anything about the Clay Co. game last week. It was obvious to everyone in the gym that after they gave RBS's coach his second "T" they started calling everything on Clay Co. and nothing on RBS. RBS shot 25 free throws in the fourth quarter alone? Is it because you won this game? To me the officiating in this game was one of the worst i have ever seen, let me take that back the first 3 quarters were good, the fourth was out of hand. I have always said all you can ask for is consistency, if an official is going to let both teams play for the first 3 quarters then thats the way it should be called the entire game. But there is nothing we can do about it so why talk about it?

[tamirrt]

I think sometmes the refs have pre-determined the outcome of the game.  I don't necessarily think they are biased but they expect things to happen a certain way and therefore possibly without realizing they call less against the favored team.  They expect the favorite to be the better team and call against the underdog. 

 

I also do not necessarily think hometown refs call for their team.  It seems to me sometimes that refs from our area are afraid that it will be said homecooking is involved and therefore call more against the teams from the area in which they live. Intentional??Probably not but  is it happening I think so.

 

Also, there is one team we play every year when we go to their gym we have the same refs everytime.  I don't know if this is coincides or what but those refs seem to always call against us. 

 

We each have our opinion when it comes to refs and I realize someone has to win and someone has to lose.  I am just sorry that it is not always determined by the players and sometimes the results are atleast in part determined by the refs.  I know they will miss a call now and then but several bad ones can mean the difference in a game, especially a close one.

 

Sorry so wordy!! I had a lot to say on that subject!!

825469136[/snapback]

I have to agree...I think the refs come in biased for the favored or "more talented team"...we had a classic example Friday nite...neither the girls or the boys from our school were favored to win and the calls were unbelieveablely biased...our girls point(the best player on the team) had 3 fouls in the first 5 min of the game for nothing while meanwhile our girls were getting hammered by the other team....there were 9 and yes I mean 9 charging fouls called against us and none on the other side...it was pretty pathetic...I know they shot 3 times as many free throws as us and in both games they were in the bonus within 10 min of each half....even with all this bad officiating our girls played excellent and pulled out the win...the boys didn't but what could have been close was a blow-out in part because of officiating...I also think the coach influences the refs because the coach has the reputation of riding the refs about calls and they just lay off on that team to avoid the inevitable confrontation. Its sad really....someone will get hurt and then it'll be too late for the TSSAA to do something.

[UCSportsFan]

I for one am going to do something about it, as soon as my boys get out of school i am going to become an official, i love the game and i am used to getting yelled at (just ask anyone that knows me! lol ) so i am a perfect fit for it, heck if Mo' can do it anyone can!!! Lets all enlist an become referee's, we all seem to be making the right calls in the stands, how hard can it be on the floor? lol thumb

[options86]

There are some very good posts with good points. I am by far not bashing all officials, and I have said how difficult their job can be. I can understand a few calls missed. I see a whole lot more good officiated games than bad. I was referring to one in particular this weekend that was an embarassment to the league. It seems that there is always one or two a year that happens that way. So they get bashed and vented on.

 

Let me give another story. This concerns middle school football. I may be mistaken on the rules, but here goes. You guys can correct me.

 

Offense is punting out of their endzone, defense blocks punt and it goes out the back of the endzone. My assumption is a safety, the punting team Kicks back to the defense from the 20 yard line. Not the case, these officails came up with something different. Give the ball to the defense, but on the other 20, no kick. They gained 80 yards for a blocked punt. Obviously there was some anger expressed.

 

Later that game, same offense backed up again, fumbled in their endzone, ball goes out of bounds in the endzone. Third down. These wonderful officials, gave the ball back to the offense moved them out to the 20yard line, because of a holding call, they put it on the 10 and gave them 1 and 10.

 

Now of course some of the crowd had moved closer to let them Know how they feel.

 

The team on the short end still is leading less than a minute to play, hail mary on 4th down, 3 defenders and 1 offense player go up for ball. Normal jump ball situation,no foul should have been called, pass interference called. Official that called it looks over at fans and pumps his arm and winks at them.

 

Next play the team did score, defending team lost. Could have overcame officiating, but shouldn't have to overcome those situations.

 

People like this should be reviewed and not allowed to work games of any sort. Just needs to be ways of watching film and reviewing when things like this happen.

 

I would hope that they would not be biased, but sometimes it is hard not to believe anything different.

[gotmilk?]

I noticed  you don't mention anything about the Clay Co. game last week.  It was obvious to everyone in the gym that after they gave RBS's coach his second "T" they started calling everything on Clay Co. and nothing on RBS.  RBS shot 25 free throws in the fourth quarter alone?  Is it because you won this game?  To me the officiating in this game was one of the worst i have ever seen, let me take that back the first 3 quarters were good, the fourth was out of hand.  I have always said all you can ask for is consistency, if an official is going to let both teams play for the first 3 quarters then thats the way it should be called the entire game.  But there is nothing we can do about it so why talk about it?

825470438[/snapback]

 

 

LOL! You need to have your stats straight before you get on here saying this stuff! RBS shot 15-16 FT in the fourth quarter, not 25? So you are way off on that! And I also agree that the officiating wasnt that good in the game, but at least it didnt decide the game though it did have an impact on the game! Its like i said in another post, in the second quarter when CC stole the ball and Heady was running behind the player, Heady came up beside the player trying to distract him, but never touched him, but the refs thought he was going to and he blew the whistle and the ref was stunned when Heady never touched him but had to go ahead and make the call, because he blew the whistle and Heady had to sit down and that is when CC made there run to get back in the game, so why you are blaming the refs you need to be thinking them too! By the way most of those foul shots were off intentional fouls from CC trying to get back in the game and i know you are going to say they only did that twice but you need to recount those also! RBS made there FT and won the game! Good Luck to all and i am looking forward to Jan.14, boys and girls game!!!

Edited December 6, 2004 by gotmilk?

[7Awatcher]

It was obvious to everyone in the gym that after they gave RBS's coach his second "T" they started calling everything on Clay Co. and nothing on RBS. /quote]

 

 

 

Was that an ejection and $250.00 fine?