All-State List

[ELA]

Volunteer[/url]General' date='Dec 14 2004 - 03:33 PM']Hey ELA...we all know how the system is suppose to work.

 

The point is the system is not working well. I can complain all I want. So don`t have the attitude that I shouldn`t be able to complain. I`m just like everyone else that picks up a paper reads the TACA all-state list. It`s a joke. Anyone with half a brain can tell there are some serious omissions. So why bother with something that no one (except those coaches that happen to show up)has respect for? Heck...If by some strange circumstance Gibson County`s coach was the only 3A coach to show up for the 3A vote and the 3A all state team was made up entirely Gibson County players you`d still be here telling us to like it.

 

Hey it`s TACA that puts this thing out. If you or TACA doesn`t like criticism then quit putting one out until TACA has a better means to come up with an all state team.

 

The AP usually does a decent and thorough job with their team.

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Vol Gen... TACA is still yet another all-state team and they haven't released theirs yet. this is the Tennessee Football Coaches Association, not the TACA list! And I think you are missing the whole point. It's just for the coaches and teams who choose to participate. Let's say Little Johnny is the best TB in the state but his coach isn't a member,. I'm not going to nominate him and I can't vote for him if his coach doesn't submit his name! If you want that type of all-state team then look to the AP POLL, not the coaches association. TFCA is a very young organization. It's only been around for a few years and not every coach is a member. Until they all join and participate it will be this way.

 

VG, you just don't get it! It's really simple... you coach at JCM must be a member and must attend to get those kids on the list! I don't know the name of any football player from Madison County and the only way I can know anything about them is if your coach promotes the kid. That's how it has always been done. When I was a head coach, throughout the month of October, I would receive faxes, E-mails, letters, or phone calls from coaches who wanted me to vote for one of their kids for the MR. FOOTBALL AWARDS. They would also promote their kids to the all-state teams in the same way. The same thing is true with kids being introduced to colleges. It is the head coach's resposibility to promote his kids and if he isn't willing than I'm not because I don't know your kids!

Edited December 15, 2004 by ELA

[p9morbid]

if it's a coach's poll and the coaches have to vote, then why would it be a problem if coaches DON'T vote -- it's their choice to not be included.

[ELA]

if it's a coach's poll and the coaches have to vote, then why would it be a problem if coaches DON'T vote -- it's their choice to not be included.

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That's true, but what we are talking about is all these people that cry foul when the list comes out and no one from their team is on the list. If they're not it's because of one of two reasons...

 

1. They don't deserve to be listed.... or

2. Their head coach didn't nominate them.

 

I have less of a problem with coaches who don't want to join than I do with people who blame TFCA and those who participate. The system is designed to promote kids whose coaches are a part of the association!

[VolunteerGeneral]

ELA...My bad...I meant TFCA.

 

ELA you are the one that does not get it. Somehow you are equating my opinion that the TFCA All State team is not very representative to I must be upset because JCM didn`t have someone on it. You couldn`t be further from the truth.

 

Why don`t you just admit that and agree with what everyone is saying..The TFCA AllState selections are a joke. An all state team is suppose to honor the BEST in the state and the TFCA team fell far short of that objective.

 

Why do you persist in arguing the facts?

Edited December 15, 2004 by VolunteerGeneral

[FatCat]

....... The system is designed to promote kids whose coaches are a part of the association!

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AHA! You just proved my point! This is a list of the best players on the teams whose coaches participate in TFCA!!! This is NOT an All-State list!!! No matter how much you want it to be an All-State list, it is not. Just because TFCA calls it an All-State list does not make it so!!!

 

Since TFCA is so new, I go back to my original question. Why bother putting out a list until you can get membership to a point that it is much, much more representative of the WHOLE state?!?

[beethoven]

Volunteer[/url]General' date='Dec 14 2004 - 07:08 PM']ELA...My bad...I meant TFCA.

 

ELA you are the one that does not get it. Somehow you are equating my opinion that the TFCA All State team to I must be upset because  JCM didn`t have someone on it. You couldn`t be further from the truth.

 

Why don`t you just admit that and agree with what everyone is saying..The TFCA AllState selections are a joke. An all state team is suppose to honor the BEST in the state and the TFCA team fell far short of that objective.

 

Why do you persist in arguing the facts?

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I'll tel you why. The flaw isn't the process or who does vote...the flaw is the coaches who choose not to participate and ###### off the loyal fans who expect little johnny rotten ###### from podunk high to be on the list.

[ELA]

AHA!  You just proved my point!  This is a list of the best players on the teams whose coaches participate in TFCA!!!  This is NOT an All-State list!!!  No matter how much you want it to be an All-State list, it is not.  Just because TFCA calls it an All-State list does not make it so!!!

 

Since TFCA is so new, I go back to my original question.  Why bother putting out a list until you can get membership to a point that it is much, much more representative of the WHOLE state?!?

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Yes, and that is what it is designed to be... the Tennessee Football Coaches Association ALL STATE FOOTBALL TEAM. This is how it is with all athletic associations. It is not designed to be a statewide all encompasing list of the best players in as much as it is a list of the top players nominated by their coaches and voted on by all coaches who attend the convention. This is what I've been trying to say but so many don't understand. I just don't see why some have such problems with this concept. It will always go back to the fact that if your coach doesn't submit your name, chances are you won't be on the list for the other coaches to vote on!

[FBEmeritus]

Yes, and that is what it is designed to be... the Tennessee Football Coaches Association ALL STATE FOOTBALL TEAM. This is how it is with all athletic associations. It is not designed to be a statewide all encompasing list of the best players in as much as it is a list of the top players nominated by their coaches and voted on by all coaches who attend the convention. This is what I've been trying to say but so many don't understand. I just don't see why some have such problems with this concept. It will always go back to the fact that if your coach doesn't submit your name, chances are you won't be on the list for the other coaches to vote on!

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ELA you make some good points but I have a question and a comment. How many coaches are members? I know for a fact coaches with the Winn ingest teams and getting ready for the state games that were by far more important than taking the time or better still wasting their time voting on a list such as this. When a group takes a name like Tennessee Football Coaches assn. they falsely lead an interested party into thinking the kids on the list were among the best in the state. I think if anyone with any knowledge of the teams in the state read this list they would laugh themselves silly with it and have much the same reaction I had. Now you might think I'm miffed because a Maryville kid doesn’t get on the list, but you would be wrong Sir. Telling the public these are the best HS players in the state is a joke and dishonest the way it was originally reported. Did Murphy Fair make the meeting? He is a respected authority but does rely upon other information to a great extent to compile his pre-all state teams in his annual publication. If he uses this list then he is misleading the fans as well. A sad message too many better deserving players in the state.

[beethoven]

ELA you make some good points but I have a question and a comment.  How many coaches are members?  I know for a fact coaches with the Winn ingest teams and getting ready for the state games that were by far more important than taking the time or better still wasting their time voting on a list such as this.  When a group takes a name like Tennessee Football Coaches assn. they falsely lead an interested party into thinking the kids on the list were among the best in the state.  I think if anyone with any knowledge of the teams in the state read this list they would laugh themselves silly with it and have much the same reaction I had.  Now you might think I'm miffed because a Maryville kid doesn’t get on the list, but you would be wrong Sir.  Telling the public these are the best HS players in the state is a joke and dishonest the way it was originally reported.  Did Murphy Fair make the meeting?  He is a respected authority but does rely upon other information to a great extent to compile his pre-all state teams in his annual publication.  If he uses this list then he is misleading the fans as well.  A sad message too many better deserving players in the state.

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You've missed the point as well.....

[kwc]

Yes, and that is what it is designed to be... the Tennessee Football Coaches Association ALL STATE FOOTBALL TEAM. This is how it is with all athletic associations. It is not designed to be a statewide all encompasing list of the best players in as much as it is a list of the top players nominated by their coaches and voted on by all coaches who attend the convention. This is what I've been trying to say but so many don't understand. I just don't see why some have such problems with this concept. It will always go back to the fact that if your coach doesn't submit your name, chances are you won't be on the list for the other coaches to vote on!

825485119[/snapback]

 

Thank you ELA for explaining the nuts and bolts of the TFCA's proceedure for selecting it's All State team. I have no problem with it's selection process because I see what the association is trying to create. I do see your ... the TFCA's delima. Here is the issue that is the most critical, IMO. Because of this wonderful forum ... I am able to have it explained to me how and why this team was selected. The average Joe who isn't privilidged to this information does not. I'm of the belief that there are more folks out there, who aren't privy to this info, then those who are. It's blatently obvious that the selected team isn't reflective of a true All-State team. Even to the casual observer who has some high school football knowlegde. It's also appearent thet the current process isn't getting all of the coaches involved. Without their involvement ... the selected team will always be flawed.

 

So, as I have been contemplating this issue ... I've tried to come to a better understanding of it's process. If I understand this correctly ... first, I have to be a MEMBER of TFCA. Next, a MEMBER coach recieves a form asking him to submit players off of his team to voted upon later for the TFCA's All-State team. Then ... if I understand this correctly ... at some later date, the coach is to conveign with the entire association at some predetermined location centrally located in the state to VOTE on the names submitted. Do I understand this correctly?

 

So ... theoretically ... I could send in the form, then make the trip to vote, and if I am the only coach there from my area, let alone, in my particular classification. If no one is there that knows anything about my players but me ... my guys may not get elected on the team anyway ... even if they are more deserving? If I understand this correctly ... is the scenerio I just presented possible? If it is ... It would only take one trip for me, if I were a coach, to never want to return again, traveling from Memphis.

 

The first problem is getting every coach to join the association, as I see it. Then, you have the problem of participation amoungst the current member coaches. There has to be another way to get all of the coaches involved, because the system you have now, as simple as it is, isn't working as it was intended. Remove the need to travel or fax. Do it all by email. It could be set-up and executed and it would gather momentum rather quickly I think. What does everybody think about that idea?

[ELA]

ELA you make some good points but I have a question and a comment.  How many coaches are members?  I know for a fact coaches with the Winn ingest teams and getting ready for the state games that were by far more important than taking the time or better still wasting their time voting on a list such as this.  When a group takes a name like Tennessee Football Coaches assn. they falsely lead an interested party into thinking the kids on the list were among the best in the state.  I think if anyone with any knowledge of the teams in the state read this list they would laugh themselves silly with it and have much the same reaction I had.  Now you might think I'm miffed because a Maryville kid doesn’t get on the list, but you would be wrong Sir.  Telling the public these are the best HS players in the state is a joke and dishonest the way it was originally reported.  Did Murphy Fair make the meeting?  He is a respected authority but does rely upon other information to a great extent to compile his pre-all state teams in his annual publication.  If he uses this list then he is misleading the fans as well.  A sad message too many better deserving players in the state.

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1. This is the ONLY state football coaches association so there is no false claims.

2. All state coaches associations make their all-state teams the same way, coaches nominate them from their teams and then the whole body votes on the names nominated.

3. Murphy Fair is not a high school football coach and he puts out his own list every year.

 

Again, don't blame anyone who did there job for those who failed to do theirs!

[ELA]

Thank you ELA for explaining the nuts and bolts of the TFCA's proceedure for selecting it's All State team. I have no problem with it's selection process because I see what the association is trying to create. I do see your ... the TFCA's delima. Here is the issue that is the most critical, IMO. Because of this wonderful forum ... I am able to have it explained to me how and why this team was selected. The average Joe who isn't privilidged to this information does not. I'm of the belief that there are more folks out there, who aren't privy to this info, then those who are. It's blatently obvious that the selected team isn't reflective of a true All-State team. Even to the casual observer who has some high school football knowlegde. It's also appearent thet the current process isn't getting all of the coaches involved. Without their involvement ... the selected team will always be flawed.

 

So, as I have been contemplating this issue ... I've tried to come to a better understanding of it's process. If I understand this correctly ... first, I have to be a MEMBER of TFCA. Next, a MEMBER coach recieves a form asking him to submit players off of his team to voted upon later for the TFCA's All-State team. Then ... if I understand this correctly ... at some later date, the coach is to conveign with the entire association at some predetermined location centrally located in the state to VOTE on the names submitted. Do I understand this correctly?

 

So ... theoretically ... I could send in the form, then make the trip to vote, and if I am the only coach there from my area, let alone, in my particular classification. If no one is there that knows anything about my players but me ... my guys may not get elected on the team anyway ... even if they are more deserving? If I understand this correctly ... is the scenerio I just presented possible? If it is ... It would only take one trip for me, if I were a coach, to never want to return again, traveling from Memphis.

 

The first problem is getting every coach to join the association, as I see it. Then, you have the problem of participation amoungst the current member coaches. There has to be another way to get all of the coaches involved, because the system you have now, as simple as it is, isn't working as it was intended. Remove the need to travel or fax. Do it all by email. It could be set-up and executed and it would gather momentum rather quickly I think. What does everybody think about that idea?

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This is just one small aspect of the coaches association. It is designed to protect the rights of coaches and express the needs that football has in the state to those who are in charge of high school athletics.

 

Here is a link to the website and you can find out which coaches belong to it (the data base is probably not up to date).

 

http://www.tnfca.org/index.htm

 

The meetings are held on the Thursday night before the Blue Cross Bowl and it is the "dead center" of the state. Almost every high school football coach I know takes off from work and goes to the games. It is a part of the culture of coaching football (just like in basketball in March); therefore, this is the best time to have the meeting and the clinic.

 

Any coach can submit his players names to the association but only members vote. We want every coach in the state to join. Voting should only be for members. It's the same way in college with the AFCA.

 

ONE FINAL NOTE: There are only 12 slots in each classification for the all-star team. This means many great players will not make the list!

Edited December 15, 2004 by ELA