Jordan Leen

[Nainten]

Jordan Leen is having a great freshman year at Cornell. So far he has gone 14-11 in tournament and dual matches and has been in with the best in the country. Although he has lost decisions to Teyon Ware (12-4) and Cory Cooperman (8-2) he just upset 16th ranked Doug McGraw (Penn) and earlier this year gave Nate Gulosh (Navy, #17) all he could handle at the Southern Scuffle. He also beat highly regarded Tommy Owen of Minnesota at the same tournament.

 

Of note, he defeated Spencer Manley (3-1) who is currently wrestling at Navy. Manley himself has had a respectable year going somehting like 6-6 although he has not been in with the caliber of wrestlers that Leen has. Manley will have a shot to start at 141 next year for the Mids. Patrick Simpson beat Leen 4-1 in competition earlier this year but Leen looks to have a higher upside than the younger Simpson at this point. If Leens wins out in the Cornell room over Charlie Aggozzino and Mat Easter he will have his chance to make his mark at the EIWA tournament in March.

[fatkat]

Jordan Leen is having a great freshman year at Cornell.  So far he has gone 14-11 in tournament and dual matches and has been in with the best in the country.  Although he has lost decisions to Teyon Ware (12-4) and Cory Cooperman (8-2) he just upset 16th ranked Doug McGraw (Penn) and earlier this year gave Nate Gulosh (Navy, #17) all he could handle at the Southern Scuffle.  He also beat highly regarded Tommy Owen of Minnesota at the same tournament.

 

Of note, he defeated Spencer Manley (3-1) who is currently wrestling at Navy.  Manley himself has had a respectable year going somehting like 6-6 although he has not been in with the caliber of wrestlers that Leen has.  Manley will have a shot to start at 141 next year for the Mids.  Patrick Simpson beat Leen 4-1 in competition earlier this year but Leen looks to have a higher upside than the younger Simpson at this point.  If Leens wins out in the Cornell room over Charlie Aggozzino and Mat Easter he will have his chance to make his mark at the EIWA tournament in March.

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Great for Leen, I would of loved to have seen the Manley match! However, Patrick Simpson recently won the New York state championship, so his upside is looking pretty bright.

[Nainten]

I am a fan of both Simpsons and have a lot of admiration for anyone who attends the service Academies (yes, even West Point). Having watched Both Simpsons wrestle in college, and trying to be objective about it all, I don't think Pat's "up side" is apt to get too much "brighter."

First of all he is a junior and it is towards the end of the season so he doesn't have a lot of time left to develop much more. We don't normally talk about college juniors and seniors in terms of their "up side." Admittedly Pat has improved each year he has wrestled and is having an excellent junior campaign with an 18-7 record. He will certainly get twenty wins this year. Anyone who can win 20 times in DI is someone to be reckoned with. He even cracked the top twenty in one of the rankings earlier in the year but to be honest it left a lot of folks scratching their heads and he was removed from the very next rankings. In any case I expect him to post another twenty win season next year as well but it won't be an improvement unless he (as a senior) can beat some ranked guys, get ranked himself, and make it to the NCAAs. This year he is O-5 against ranked wrestlers so far. As far as his New York College States Tournament victory goes, I wouldn't use it as an indicator of potential. It's a minor tournament with a good number of division III schools. In fact here is Patrick's route to the championship:

Gerry Fortuna (Merchant Marine Academy) - DIII

Dan Ginerich (Buffalo Univ.) - a freshman with a 500 record.

Dan Roberts (SUNY Brockport) - DIII

 

Sorry if it sounds like I'm down on Patrick. I'm not. I'm just trying to be objective about it. I think Patrick will have a good senior year and finish with a respectable college career but Jordan Leen has made some noise this year already as a true frosh. If he keeps his weight down and improves as most wrestlers do from year to year, Jordan Leen will contend for EIWA championships and AA before he graduates from Cornell.

[thecia]

Nainten, I find your posts remarkably pointless. You start a thread about Jordan Leen, but somewhere along the way you decide to take a jab at Patrick Simpson. If you want to talk about Jordan Leen, that is fine. If you want to talk about Patrick Simpson, that is fine. But, who are you to get on here and say that Patrick has maxed out his potential and will not be an all american. Let the guy get it done on the mat and shut your mouth.

 

"Yes even West Point." Explain, is West Point considered one of the easier of the Academies now. Again, makes no sense.

Edited January 31, 2005 by thecia

[walkenvol]

Nainten,

 

We're all entitled to our opinions. As someone who has seen Patrick wrestle at both the high school and college levels, my opinion differs from yours. If I'm not mistaken, Patrick did not attend the West Point prep school which means he is a true junior (who has Brands not red shirted?). Almost every athlete and coach I've spoken with associated with the academies hold a similiar opinion that the freshman year is pretty much a blur and most of them are simply trying to survive the combined academic, military, and athletic requirements that started with the 3 month boot camp prior to school and that the athletic progress occurs mostly during the somp to senior seasons. I don't know Patrick's situation, but it is quite common for them to struggle with their health also adjusting to the tight quarters and the continually interrupted / abbreviated sleep. Not complaining - it's their choice, but it should be factored into any analysis when comparing Juniors to Juniors, especially when you're wanting to tag them with the "just doesn't have it" title. Anyone who follows the NCAA's also knows that many times there is very little differences between the guy who finishes #12 and the guy who places #4. Patrick appears much stronger then in HS and is wrestling well when I have seen him. If he can avoid injury and have a strong off season, I see no reason why he won't be in the mix next season and my very well get there this year. Remember the Pitt wrestler from 2 years ago who was unseeded, started in an out bracket and finished runner up? Nothing's guaranteed - they work their tails off, give it their best shot, and roll the dice. If you can get to the big dance, anything can happen.

 

Jordan's win over the Penn wrestler was huge, but if you asked his father I'd bet he would say his biggest wins were the challenge matches to make varsity. He's having a great 1st year and he wants to do well as much as anyone I know. If he can stay healthy, no reason not to add to the recent run of TN AA's. Having practiced some with him myself over Christmas, I don't envy his opponents when he gets on top. Kevin Ward, Darrin McKnight, and Matt Keller are in the mix also and I'll bet we hear more from Blackmon. Hope a big crowd will make the drive to St. Louis to cheer them on along with our UTC home team.

 

BTW, Nate Gulosh is currently ranked #10 in WIN mag and #9 in one of the other rankings I saw.

Edited January 31, 2005 by walkenvol

[Nainten]

Walkenvol, Thanks for the civil response. My original post was meant as a "pro" Jordan Leen post. Somehow my post seemed to take on an anti-Patrick flavor but it wasn't meant to. I was merely trying to justify why I see AA in Leen's future but in comparison not so much in the younger Simpson's. I apologize if anyone was offended. But I do agree with you that just because he may not have the inside track right now doesn't mean he can't pull off the upsets. I think the wrestler from Pitt you may be thinking of was Fronhoefer (sp), a 174 lber. He beat Shane Webster from Oregon in the semis with a great body lock throw and then lost to ...was it Rosholt? Any way here is another one perhaps closer to home. The Naval Academy had a 141 lber in 2001, Mark Conley, who was unranked most of the season and came into the NCAA's unseeded. In his first match he faced Iowa's Strittmater (sp) who tech'ed him by something like 23-6. Mark then went on to reel offf a string of wins in the consolations and finished 5th that year as a junior. The next year he also AA'd. So you point is well made and understood, however, if the past is any indicator of future performance (and I think it is) I stand by my posting that at best he is a long shot. I better stop before I offend another close friend or relative.

 

Why the reference to Nate Gulosh? Just curious.

[WrestleSBA]

Why the reference to Nate Gulosh?  Just curious.

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I believe Nate Gulosh was the Navy wrestler who defeated Jordan by 1 during the Southern Scuffle and went on to win the event if memory serves me correctly (I know he was the #1 seed). That would just be my guess for why walkenvol threw that one out there, I think you referenced it in your original post. Guess he was just trying to revalidate your earlier post... not to try and answer for the vol though .

Edited January 31, 2005 by WrestleSBA

[walkenvol]

Walkenvol,  Thanks for the civil response.  My original post was meant as a "pro" Jordan Leen post.  Somehow my post seemed to take on an anti-Patrick flavor but it wasn't meant to.  I was merely trying to justify why I see AA in Leen's future but in comparison not so much in the younger Simpson's.  I apologize if anyone was offended.      But I do agree with you that just because he may not have the inside track right now doesn't mean he can't pull off the upsets.  I think the wrestler from Pitt you may be thinking of was Fronhoefer (sp), a 174 lber.  He beat Shane Webster from Oregon in the semis with a great body lock throw and then lost to ...was it Rosholt?  Any way here is another one perhaps closer to home.  The Naval Academy had a 141 lber in 2001, Mark Conley, who was unranked most of the season and came into the NCAA's unseeded.  In his first match he faced Iowa's  Strittmater (sp)  who tech'ed him by something like 23-6.  Mark then went on to reel offf a string of wins in the consolations and finished 5th that year as a junior.  The next year he also AA'd.  So you point is well made and understood, however, if the past is any indicator of future performance (and I think it is) I stand by my posting that at best he is a long shot.  I better stop before I offend another close friend or relative.   

 

Why the reference to Nate Gulosh?  Just curious.

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I'm not offended neither am I a close friend or relative - simply someone who has seen him in action who had a differing opinion. I like the chances of both these young men and I still contend that if you are formulating your opinion on a single victory over the 16th ranked wrestler equals good prospect vs has been ranked as high as 20th before but no wins over ranked wrestlers equals unlikely prospect then you are being too simplistic in your analysis. You are not factoring into account everything else that is required of Patrick besides wrestling vs whomever he may compete against and how that could retard the learning curve somewhat. I may be proved wrong the 3rd week in March 2006, but I like his chances.

 

As for Nate, just correcting the facts of your earlier post.

[walkenvol]

Nainten,

 

If you will keep an open mind you might see how your example of Mark Conley supports my point that in many cases, the academy guys will show their stuff later in their careers. Patrick may be the Mark Conley of this season. Conley was ranked as high as 1 or 2 during the season and had a dissapointing tourney his senior year. I remember Army had a runner up a few years back named Maurice something. Do you remember what he did prior to his senior season?

 

Your right, it was Carl Fronhofer. I spoke to him on the phone last spring - a funny guy.

[Hamm]

Nainten,

 

If you will keep an open mind you might see how your example of Mark Conley supports my point that in many cases, the academy guys will show their stuff later in their careers.  Patrick may be the Mark Conley of this season.  Conley was ranked as high as 1 or 2 during the season and had a dissapointing tourney his senior year.  I remember Army had a runner up a few years back named Maurice something.  Do you remember what he did prior to his senior season?

 

Your right, it was Carl Fronhofer.  I spoke to him on the phone last spring - a funny guy.

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That was Maurice Worthy from Army

[Nainten]

I'm not offended neither am I a close friend or relative - simply someone who has seen him in action who had a differing opinion.  I like the chances of both these young men and I still contend that if you are formulating your opinion on a single victory over the 16th ranked wrestler equals good prospect vs has been ranked as high as 20th before but no wins over ranked wrestlers equals unlikely prospect then you are being too simplistic in your analysis.  You are not factoring into account everything else that is required of Patrick besides wrestling vs whomever he may compete against and how that could retard the learning curve somewhat.  I may be proved wrong the 3rd week in March 2006, but I like his chances.

 

As for Nate, just correcting the facts of your earlier post.

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Oh Okay. I should have cited my reference. I tend to favor the NWCA/Intermat and AWN rankings. In this case I used intermat. AWN actually has Nate Ranked higher (14) and as you've already pointed out he is apparently ranked even higher by WIN and other sources. I watched Leen wrestle at the Southern Scuffle for the first time and saw his matches with Gulosh and Tommy Owens. I can't tell you how impressed I was with him considering how much pub the other Cornell 141 lbers have had coming out of high school. Coach Koll does a great job year after year picking up great recruits. Where else did Leen think of going to school at?

[maj]

Nainten,

 

We're all entitled to our opinions. As someone who has seen Patrick wrestle at both the high school and college levels, my opinion differs from yours. If I'm not mistaken, Patrick did not attend the West Point prep school which means he is a true junior (who has Brands not red shirted?). Almost every athlete and coach I've spoken with associated with the academies hold a similiar opinion that the freshman year is pretty much a blur and most of them are simply trying to survive the combined academic, military, and athletic requirements that started with the 3 month boot camp prior to school and that the athletic progress occurs mostly during the somp to senior seasons. I don't know Patrick's situation, but it is quite common for them to struggle with their health also adjusting to the tight quarters and the continually interrupted / abbreviated sleep. Not complaining - it's their choice, but it should be factored into any analysis when comparing Juniors to Juniors, especially when you're wanting to tag them with the "just doesn't have it" title. Anyone who follows the NCAA's also knows that many times there is very little differences between the guy who finishes #12 and the guy who places #4. Patrick appears much stronger then in HS and is wrestling well when I have seen him. If he can avoid injury and have a strong off season, I see no reason why he won't be in the mix next season and my very well get there this year. Remember the Pitt wrestler from 2 years ago who was unseeded, started in an out bracket and finished runner up? Nothing's guaranteed - they work their tails off, give it their best shot, and roll the dice. If you can get to the big dance, anything can happen.

 

Jordan's win over the Penn wrestler was huge, but if you asked his father I'd bet he would say his biggest wins were the challenge matches to make varsity. He's having a great 1st year and he wants to do well as much as anyone I know. If he can stay healthy, no reason not to add to the recent run of TN AA's. Having practiced some with him myself over Christmas, I don't envy his opponents when he gets on top. Kevin Ward, Darrin McKnight, and Matt Keller are in the mix also and I'll bet we hear more from Blackmon. Hope a big crowd will make the drive to St. Louis to cheer them on along with our UTC home team.

 

BTW, Nate Gulosh is currently ranked #10 in WIN mag and #9 in one of the other rankings I saw.

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One of the more intelligent and insightfull posts I've read on this board in some time. Thanks for putting it up.