rollredroll

No apology necessary; my response was more of a preemptive olive branch, given the tenor these message boards evolve into at times.

I am sure the MHS bunch would have a name to add to the list (and rightfully so).

You should think not. Read the legend at the top of the page where you saw the rankings. It says: The Schedule Strength column (left) ranks teams based on the average win percentage of their scheduled opponents. The Strength + Success column (right) combines the opponent win percentage from the left with the team's own win percentage. Teams that perform better against opponents that perform better will rank higher. CPA had the third hardest schedule in 3A per the schedule strength column. Their pedestrian 5-5 regular season record puts them at 35th when factoring in the team's success with that schedule.

Point of clarification - BA has the 17-8 series advantage (8-5 post-split, 9-3 pre-split).

To see if anyone can validate. No name/school was provided; a lecture is not necessary.

Caught wind of a rumor of another defection in DII tonight. The age and associated naivete of the source lead me to dispel the rumor (read: I am acknowledging up front that I am not sold); the affiliation and a couple of details given do give cause for pause. Not trying to stir up trouble - I have far better things to do than sully a kid undeservedly - and as such, no name or school will be given. If true, the story will develop on its own; if not, no school or kid is harmed.

1974 and 1997

75% of the starters? Heck, why not 75% of the whole darn team? Starters have to be replaced at some point due to graduation or attrition, so similar logic would follow that they are being replaced by “scholarship†players. Is a player receiving $6.5K in aid at Webb, where the tuition is about $15K, at any more of an advantage than a player at CAK, where tuition is about $8.5K? That is what is warped about the financial aid rules in this state. Look at it another way: a student whose family can afford to pay $5K towards tuition would be eligible to play sports at Webb. He would not be able to play at CAK. Go figure. The powers-that-be need to stop drinking the Kool Aid. Many of the larger DII schools have their financial information posted in local newspapers each year (and that information itself is available in public tax returns found on the internet), and the percentage of students who receive aid in the typical school is usually anywhere between 5-20%. And that 5-20%, on average, is each paying at least $7-8K out of pocket at the larger schools to complement the aid for which they are eligible. My guess is that some smart non-athletes qualify for aid, too. Nevertheless, it’s the school’s decision – one made on principle, so it seems – and one can’t do anything but accept it. However, if it’s the “75%†that is the only factor playing into the decision not to play a DII school, then the parents at the school need to start clamoring for new powers-that-be who are willing to do some of their own free-thinking, or at the very least some simple discovery.

Conventional wisdom would say that is the case (having to go out of state because of the inability to get in-state games). However, where these debates have gone off track and become hypocritical in the past is when a private school goes out of state. There are plenty of threads in the past few months that have accused the large privates of playing out-of-state because they want to avoid the DI biggies. Of course, what makes those claims so asinine is that the list of those schools played is a Who’s Who of regional/national powers (Byrnes, Trinity, St. X (OH), Prattville, South Panola, Moeller, etc.). I think it’s safe to say that if a couple of small Kentucky schools (although one relatively good but not the top team in Kentucky) are scheduled because of an inability to get games in Tennessee, then the playing of out-of-state powerhouses is a pound-the-table argument for the same dilemma private schools face. On a side note related to Kentucky football, I came across a thread on another site that proclaimed Kentucky HS football dominance over Tennessee because of the results of the last six TN-KY all-star games. Of course, we all know those games evolved into rosters that were not nearly as strong as they were the first two decades of the series due to players wanting to avoid injury. I just checked my notes. Tennessee leads head-to-head matchups 19-5 this year. In the past five years, Tennessee has won 67% of the head-to-head matchups (even 64% if you count the on-the-field results of three forfeits Tennessee benefited from in 2006). There is a lot of fuzzy math being taught in the Commonwealth it appears.

The problem in these arguments lies in part with isolated examples. I loved seeing BSU beat VT this year. I rather enjoyed their victory over Oklahoma in the 2006 season. But I also remember that the 2006 Fiesta Bowl win over OU was just over a year removed from the Broncos getting their backsides violated by 35 by the Bulldogs in Athens. Same thing happened in Fayetteville three years prior to that in 2002 (27-point loss that time). Go another year back and the Gamecocks were using their tools to the tune of a 19-point victory in Columbia. One could argue that BSU was not as good back then. Sure, maybe. The 2005 team that lost to UGA had four losses – three to BCS schools. But, the 2002 team had one loss – to Arkansas. BSU has become much better from what was already a good level (although I still remember them as a decent but not great I-AA program back in college in the 80s), but I think the issue here is long term patterns and consistency. 2010 Virginia Tech win? Awesome. 2006 OU win? Even better. But let’s not forget these SEC beat-downs. Heck, just go back to 2007 and, nine months after that OU win, the Broncos are limping their way to a two-TD loss to Washington – a 4-9 Washington team. I think a flaw in the “afraid to schedule†parallel is that NCAA schedules are made years in advance. We have known that UT is going to play Oregon in three years, for what, three or four years now? Heck, I think UT scheduled a home-and-home with The Ohio State University ten years in advance (talk about SEC beat-downs! OSU has the market cornered on that one). Another issue is that Boise State, through its own success, is now a “Big Boyâ€, to the extent that they may have the shoe on the other foot and soon have to show that they aren’t afraid to play the next wave of up-and-comers. I don’t want to compare a dominant, smaller classification TSSAA team to Boise State (God forbid if I say the wrong thing). Sure, there are some parallels. I certainly think a smaller classification team could lay claim to “best in state†if enough dominance and a powerful, larger classification victory is sprinkled in here and there (translation – Alcoa has an argument to lobby). But, in the end, I think there has to be an understanding that teams, on both levels, that play stronger schedules – and consistently – are looked upon more favorably in terms of passing out the spoils – the BCS title game invitations, the “best in state†labels, etc. I don’t necessarily think it is right, but the BSUs of the world cannot control their own destiny. They have to hope for others to slip up, and in some years, that may not even be enough. That's not true on the HS level, as we have playoffs, although for each distinct classification, but when it comes to a "best in state" argument, that's an argument that no school - not his, hers, mine, or yours - can lay claim to with 100% conviction.

The Facts and Figures page will provide a variety of state titles, wins leaders, etc. I have been asked a couple of questions before related to this topic and think this may be a good time to address them. One regards the mythical state titles. I have been asked why the mythical titles are shown; one e-mail went so far as to imply that I show them as shown for self-serving reasons. Originally, when I started the site, I showed playoff era titles only. At one point, a set of fans from one particular school wanted to see their one mythical title shown (said school also has playoff era titles) in their listing. To be consistent, I had to show all mythical titles claimed by the various schools. Ironically, the fan who wrote the self-serving e-mail was a fan of the school that had all of the posters clamoring to have their mythical title shown. Also, as it relates to the completeness of the records, I implore people to help me with the research. States like Georgia and Alabama have literally dozens of people researching across those states to help complete all-time score histories. While I do get help from time to time (and all five of the schools named first - OR, DB, MHS, TCHS, AHS - have been very helpful with submissions), I could use a lot more. There are a couple of schools - BGA and Gallatin in particular - that should have high win totals in probably the Top 15 in the state, but I need a lot of help on those. There are plenty of great programs in the state. Many of the ones mentioned thus far are no-brainers - all are longstanding programs with multiple titles (including the mythical ones) and win totals in the top 5-10% of the state's programs. Pearl-Cohn may be a little of a stretch, however, even though I think highly of the program and the people around it over the years, especially Maurice Fitzgerald. While the program has the two titles from the 1990s, the program's overall winning percentage is less than 47%. PCHS has had 12 winning seasons and 16 losing seasons, although 12 of those were in the first 12 years of the program after the Pearl and Cohn merger in 1982.

Thanks, but I haven't always been respectful. I have taken my shots. I have been catty. But, just like in-person arguments, you have to step aside at some point or things get really nasty. This stuff isn't worth it. I saw a kid in a wheelchair at the BA-MBA game Friday night with some sort of disability. To see that happiness on his face for being at his team's game without an outward care in the world, juxtaposed next to a hard-on I had for a post I read on the Herbstreit thread that drove me nuts, really made me reassess how serious I/we take things. If I had to nominate the "class" representative for the DII boards, I would nominate KWoodroof. Met him in person at Herbstreit two years ago and a couple of MBA games since. I promise anyone who would meet him from the other side would immediately rethink any biases. And he has a sense of humor that really is fantastic if you take the time to look past the topics/issues at hand. And yes, DI/MHS/AHS has representatives as well. Honestly, my radar is up for only one poster these days. He is not a MHS fan. He has initials in his screen name. And I don't know how any logical, unbiased person cannot rolls his/her eyes when he comments. It's probably not a secret who it is. His primary argument these days is that his school's record against DII schools the past two decades - a set of only a few games, and a set that does not include MBA, MUS, a modern day Brentwood Academy, and the vast majority of DII schools - is the reason for his school's dominance and DII being dogmeat. That is flat out asinine. That's the equivalent of Briarcrest claiming 6A/5A superiority because they beat Craigmont this year. Because I run a website - one run out of pure love of the game - I have scores flying through my head every minute of the day pretty much. When I look at what a Maryville has done, it is, indeed, staggering. No one should question what MHS has done (as an aside, pepvol, I am sure it has been gratifying that the move to 6A has eliminated a lot of the DI flak about Maryville playing up), regardless of class or opponent. Similarly, though, I do believe that DII's record versus DI schools (an 80% winning percentage since the beginning of DII in 1997, and a lopsided winning % against every DI class) is, at the very least, enough to go by to say that said initialed-poster referenced in the last paragraph looks absolutley idiotic for his claims about DII strength. So, we live to live and fight another day.

msms06, please do read the other thread. You will then understand that it was by no means a direct or indirect reference to you. Food for thought as we enter tonight's game: Baylor 17-11 61% Father Ryan 26-12 68% CBHS 42-14 75% McCallie 30-8 79% MUS 37-4 90% BA 24-2 92% MBA 31-2 94% Total 207-53 80% What are these numbers? These are the original large DII schools' records versus non-DII teams and non-out of state teams since the split in 1997 (and by no means do I mean to exclude the current other large DII schools - EHS, BGA, etc. - I just threw these up for the sake of time. I will try to add those later). There may be an error or two, for which I apologize. I read on another thread that "DII IS NOT the elite high school football in the state of TN...It is far from it!". You know, there are good teams in all classes - classes of any enrollment, public or private. And the definition of "elite" probably differs from person to person - is it representation by the best team in a certain class, or a set of teams that make up the class? I don't care if DII represents elite high school football in this state. Whatever the answer is, I'd just like to thank all of the schools for a heckuva lot of entertainment the past 13 years. Win or lose, it has been a blast. RRR

Honestly, I did not know that was a phrase you used. Nevertheless, note that I said the use of the popcorn "emoticon" was my issue, not the saying of the phrase. For context, go to "Grins and Chuckles" and see post 7 on the first page. That's what I'm talking about - throwing a wordless, popcorn-emoticonned response into a discussion - which carries no value and implies contempt. You shouldn't be offended.

I have leaned towards giving the benefit of the doubt as to status of said bowl game. With that said, it would be nice for a newspaper (Times Daily or News Sentinel) to pick up on the story and give the specifics (where, when) and have a couple of quotes from ADs/coaches as to who has been contacted and who has accepted/declined (and accordingly, quotes from those ADs/coaches as to their interest/availability). Such an article would settle any uncertainties/conflicts on the message boards as well as promote the bowl to those schools needing games who don't look on CoachT for opponents. I don't know how anyone interested in a level playing field in terms of these debates (or whatever they are) can contest the impartialness a third party media mention would represent.

39-35? 15-10? Those aren't exactly traditional game scores. Gosh, it almost seems as if you would have to have a crystal ball to predict those scores. Or, at least a newspaper from 2008. Well done. I knew someone would catch on. Any TN representation in the Herbstreit games, count me in as a fan. With that said, some message board banter in other states questions whether these games will even continue next year. I'm sure the Dwyer game this year didn't help matters as far as out-of-state interest is concerned.

My enthusiasm for the games hasn't waned. I will say the wins aren't as redeeming and the losses aren't as depressing, perhaps a byproduct of priority changes in life. However, my enthusiasm for posting has diminished this year more than any other year. It is difficult to have respectful, rational discussions or debates anymore. The manner in which some approach debating these days is perplexing and can leave those who have the ability to separate their own biases from debates totally dumbfounded by the arguments of others. I wouldn't be surprised to find myself a 100% spectator on these boards at some point in the next few years. Whatever side or argument one supports many times can be promoted or elevated merely by just zipping the lips and letting those who can't leave good enough alone steer the course of the debate in a direction just the opposite of the way they think it is going (I think the saying is "...better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt"). And if I see one more debate that shows a popcorn-eating emoticon as a demonstration of knowledge or as a counter to a valid, well-thought out argument, I may swear off these boards completely. I think at least one title game participant will come from this game. Of course, given that has happened 12 of the 13 years, that's not exactly a stretch. I'll be rooting for the crimson team.

If you are interested in enrollments going back to 2000, you can find those here: Enrollments Dating To 2000

Kentucky high school football is suffering more than usual this year in head-to-head matchups with Tennessee. 18 wins for Tennessee, 5 for Kentucky. CCHS was 6-2 going into this matchup last year. Their two losses were to Bowling Green and Franklin. Those two schools were replaced with Warren Central and Clarksville this year, thereby making the schedule a bit easier and setting up the undefeated record to date. This is a sandwich game for Oakland, but given OHS is coming off of a loss, that doesn't bode well for CCHS. I'll take the good guys by 14 again.

Ironically, for all of the talk of private schools raiding the areas out of the country club zip codes to fill the athletic teams and student bodies, one would think that a private school would be a decent representation of the “real worldâ€, what with the melting pot of students roaming the halls. And yet, to think social education occurs only in school settings is somewhat short-sighted. I’ve read rationale like this for years, and while I don’t necessarily have a problem with it (nor fault anyone’s reasoning), it seems a little melodramatic. How does one define a “real worldâ€? Is it a race distinction? Is it a socio-economic distinction? Take the three largest cities (MSAs in particular) in this state, and you see rather different worlds, even though they are all so-called “big citiesâ€. And while those differences aren’t necessarily numerous, there are distinctions. Go further and compare any of those cities to the outlying, rural communities, and you see even more distinctions between the various worlds, and in some cases on a different level of criteria. The point being, “real world†is not singularly defined, and really is defined by an individual and the place and people surrounded by that individual. If you grow up in the most remote of rural counties in Tennessee, odds are you are going to return to that county and live your adult years (this is not a stereotype; I’d venture to say there is data out there that widely supports it). That person is likely not even going to even have a private school option. On the other hand – and not for the better or worse – the kid that grows up in a white collar family in Nashville and wants to work on Wall Street some day may find a private school environment more fitting of his/her perception of a real world. The comparison is a little tricky here, as there are plenty (a majority) of public school kids who work on Wall Street – partly a byproduct of better public educational systems in the Northeast – but the point remains the same. People gravitate towards what’s natural, what’s comfortable, what’s available. My father grew up dirt poor in Roane County and forged his adult years in Nashville. He raised his only son in Nashville (but yet hardly much richer). If his “real world†experience in Harriman prepared him better for a life in Nashville than my upbringing would for a life in Harriman, I’d love to hear opinions as to why. Harriman sure as heck ain’t Nashville, I can tell you that (and vice versa). On another ironic level, I’ll mention another aspect of the “real worldâ€; of course, with the understanding there is not one, true real world. The real world consists of all types – rich and poor, city and country, etc. – competing for jobs and the amenities of a community. Rich and poor alike share the same roads, utilize the same utilities. And yet, for all of the beliefs that the public school system is a microcosm of the “real worldâ€, many of the people with such beliefs espouse an athletic system in this state that represents just the opposite of the widely accepted definition of the “real worldâ€.

I'm just glad to see Bell County didn't disband the program after the reaming encountered on their home turf last year at the hands of a violent storm. In all seriousness, though, congrats to Bell County. Looks like they are strong again this year. Of course, it was easier for BCHS to get started off on the right foot this year. And congratulations to the Commonwealth...for narrowing the gap in head-to-head matchups this season to 17-5. Don't fret though - there's a big one on the college level between the two states that may be winnable this year. I'll believe it when I see it, though.

The play in question occurred on FRHS's first possession. They were up 7-0 less than three minutes into the game. MBA then reeled off 17 points, with one score aided by a blocked punt deep in FRHS territory. FRHS countered with two FGs, making it 17-13 at the half. No scoring in the third. MBA adds a FG late in the 4th. FRHS gets a two-minute-drill opportunity but failed on 4th down around their own 10. There was enough time on the clock that MBA could not just kneel, so they punched in a TD with about 1:00.

It did give FRHS some momentum that probably carried them through the entire game, as it wasn't decided until the last couple of minutes.

I, too, wondered where it went. If it was deleted for any kind of copyright issue, then the mod who deleted it needs to delete it on the 5A/6A boards as well. Anyway, as I mentioned earlier, DIIAA-East/Middle and DIIAA-West are counted as separate leagues in their calculations. DIIAA-E/M is second in Tennessee in those rankings; DIIAA-West is third. Combined, they are likely first, or just short. I would think that 6A District 7 benefits by having some E/M teams on its schedule; similarly, E/M benefits the same way playing some of those District 7 teams.