Who will win the NL central

[btowntigers]

The way i am hearing it, Prior will be on the DL come opening day!

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Dusty Baker said he would likely put him on the dl since his first start (game 5) isnt til April 12th so that he can bring someone up from the minors to help them out.

[btowntigers]

Whether they miss a start or not, they probably aren't HEALTHY.

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They are supposedly throwing now without any problems. they dont have to be 100% to still pitch good...we all know what they can do when healthy and they still had era's under 4 last year when they were battling injuries and Prior put up Johan Santana numbers last September to close out the season. Maddux is past his prime but he still gets the job done and Zambrano is only 23 or 24 and already is one of the top pitchers in the game. all 4 guys could be the ace on different teams so even if Wood and Prior dont have an era under 3 and strike out 250+ batters this is still the best staff in the league. lot of good bats there too...Patterson, Ramirez, Lee, Garciaparra. health will be an issue this season but if they can stay close to healthy they can win this division.

[gotmilk?]

We knew about Willis's talent, though we didn't know what he'd do.  And if you think Penny, Beckett, and Burnett hadn't shown anything, you're just as crazy as I thought.

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Please dont insult my intelligence of baseball, because if you knew baseball, you would know that before the 2003 season when the Marlins won the WS, those three guys(Penny, Burnett, and Beckett)were a combine 64-63, 1 game over .500! So please tell me how they were proven? Was it Penny's 4.66 era in 2002? Was it Beckett's 4.10 era in 2002? Or could it have been Burnett's 30-30 lifetime record before 2003? And by the way Burnett didnt help get them to the WS he only pitched in 4 games in 2003! So you knew theses guys were proven before they even made an impact on MLB? Wow, you are a genius! But inall seriousness, this proves that you cant count a team out before the season begins! thumb

 

Look for the Reds to do some very positive things this season!

[btowntigers]

Please dont insult my intelligence of baseball, because if you knew baseball, you would know that before the 2003 season when the Marlins won the WS, those three guys(Penny, Burnett, and Beckett)were a combine 64-63, 1 game over .500! So please tell me how they were proven? Was it Penny's 4.66 era in 2002? Was it Beckett's 4.10 era in 2002? Or could it have been Burnett's 30-30 lifetime record before 2003? And by the way Burnett didnt help get them to the WS he only pitched in 4 games in 2003! So you knew theses guys were proven before they even made an impact on MLB? Wow, you are a genius! But inall seriousness, this proves that you cant count a team out before the season begins! thumb

 

Look for the Reds to do some very positive things this season!

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im not gonna insult your intelligence(even though you and opp argued about Alex Sanchez on the other thread and he doesnt even play for the Tigers anymore) but i will comment on those pitchers. were they proven? no....but we knew(well atleast i did) that these guys had electric stuff they were just young and hadnt had time to prove it. that Marlins staff was supposed to be the old Atlanta Braves staff of the future. they hadnt proved it yet but any knowledgable fan knew that all 4 of those guys had the potential to be a future ace....before the season began.

[gotmilk?]

im not gonna insult your intelligence(even though you and opp argued about Alex Sanchez on the other thread and he doesnt even play for the Tigers anymore) but i will comment on those pitchers. were they proven? no....but we knew(well atleast i did) that these guys had electric stuff they were just young and hadnt had time to prove it. that Marlins staff was supposed to be the old Atlanta Braves staff of the future. they hadnt proved it yet but any knowledgable fan knew that all 4 of those guys had the potential to be a future ace....before the season began.

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Sad thing is, three years later, neither one of them have proven to be an ace! And before you argue that point, go look at the numbers! thumb

[btowntigers]

Sad thing is, three years later, neither one of them have proven to be an ace! And before you argue that point, go look at the numbers! thumb

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im not gonna argue that, they have been major dissapointments so far. however i can explain it....Beckett, Burnett, and Penny all battled injuries last year and Penny still isnt healthy. i dont know what happened to Willis i guess they just finally figured out how to read that ugly delivery...he was so dominate back then and this year coming into spring they talked about moving him into the bullpen...he had a good spring though and kept his spot in the rotation.

[Opperman]

Please dont insult my intelligence of baseball, because if you knew baseball, you would know that before the 2003 season when the Marlins won the WS, those three guys(Penny, Burnett, and Beckett)were a combine 64-63, 1 game over .500! So please tell me how they were proven? Was it Penny's 4.66 era in 2002? Was it Beckett's 4.10 era in 2002? Or could it have been Burnett's 30-30 lifetime record before 2003? And by the way Burnett didnt help get them to the WS he only pitched in 4 games in 2003! So you knew theses guys were proven before they even made an impact on MLB? Wow, you are a genius! But inall seriousness, this proves that you cant count a team out before the season begins! thumb

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Pitchers' win-loss record means jack squat. It's all about K rate, BB rate, and HR rate. If you know those three numbers, you can predicthow well he'll pitch. All three of those guys had outstanding K rates, pretty good HR rates, and were young enough that you could expect a solid improvement in their BB rates.

 

And like btown said, everybody knew all three of them had "future ace" written all over them, it was just a matter of harnessing their control.

[sportsradiotn]

let me state this one more time......Kerry Wood is scheduled to start game 4 and Mark Prior is scheduled to start game 5. everyone thinks they are out for a while but really they're not even gonna miss a start, just got bumped to the back of the rotation to get them some extra rest, games 4 and 5 rather than 1 and 2. then you add Carlos Zambrano(era under 3 last year) and Greg Maddux and that is the best rotation in baseball even with Wood and Prior not being at 100%.

 

Borowski stinks anyway he wont be missed, his era was around 8 (yes 8 thats not a typo) last year.

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Borowski may stink, but, you must have a closer and at the moment the Cubs do not. They traded Farnsworth - which may not have been a bad thing - but, they have yet to come up with a stopper in the bullpen. In fact, the pen will be their weakness. Ask the Cardinals of 2003 about a weak bullpen - it cost them a playoff berth.

[btowntigers]

Borowski may stink, but, you must have a closer and at the moment the Cubs do not.  They traded Farnsworth - which may not have been a bad thing - but, they have yet to come up with a stopper in the bullpen.  In fact, the pen will be their weakness.  Ask the Cardinals of 2003 about a weak bullpen - it cost them a playoff berth.

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Latroy Hawkins is the closer now. he was great when he was a setup man in Minnesota but last year the cubs tried to use him as the closer and it didnt work well...i guess they didnt learn their lesson. Borowski wasnt for sure gonna be the closer anyway, him and Hawkins were competing for it spring training. there are 2 closers on the block (Urbina in Detroit and Julio in Baltimore) and they havent made any offers so obviously they think they can make it with what they got. you're right though...their bullpen is very weak.

[Gerry Bertier]

thats true but the Marlins had an awesome pitching staff...Beckett, Willis, Burnett, Penny, Leiter...yes most of them were young but these are allstar caliber guys.

 

i think i would call Arod a major superstar since he's the highest payed player in baseball, he was on the mariners team. and that was when Edgar Martinez and Bret Boone could still stroke....throw Ichiro in and that was a loaded lineup.

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I don't know what team you were looking at but A-Rod was in Texas in 2001. Every year that A-Rod has been traded from a team the team trading him away had drastically improved (Seattle in 2001 and Texas in 2003) Maybe there is a trend there. But it is not about having the best talent in the league, but the team with the best chemistry and team hot at the end. Everyone said the Braves wouldnt win last year with a bunch of inconsistent pitchers and looked how that turned out. Coaching has lot to do with winning.

[jusdontno]

1. St Louis

2. Who Cares

3. Who Cares

4. Who Cares

5. Who Cares

6. Who Cares

 

 

 

Cardinals have enough pitching, a great offense and solid defense. Matheney is a key loss. Molina is as good if not better, but no one can handle a staff like Matheney. Womack was not that productive, Grudz can probably match. Renteria offensive numbers were down last year and the Birds won 105, missing his defense is more of an issue. Mulder will help, not a 105 win team, but easily the Central Division champs.

[gotmilk?]

Pitchers' win-loss record means jack squat.  It's all about K rate, BB rate, and HR rate.  If you know those three numbers, you can predicthow well he'll pitch.  All three of those guys had outstanding K rates, pretty good HR rates, and were young enough that you could expect a solid improvement in their BB rates.

 

And like btown said, everybody knew all three of them had "future ace" written all over them, it was just a matter of harnessing their control.

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But as I said, neither has turned into an "ACE" yet?