Who will win the NL central

[Gerry Bertier]

Mulder's win total has decreased since 2001. So him holding down the Cardinals staff will be a question mark for them. It will be interesting to see how they adjust. But the one team no one is talking about is the Houston Astros. Astros have the best pitching in the division, at least till the Cubs are healthy and in their ball park and average player can produce big numbers. Here are my predictions for the upcoming season.

 

1. Houston Astros

2. Chicago Cubs (Only if Wood and Prior stay healthy)

3. St Louis Cardinals

4. Cincinnati Reds

5. Pittsburgh Pirates

6. Milwaukee Brewers

[jusdontno]

Mulder's win total has decreased since 2001. So him holding down the Cardinals staff will be a question mark for them. It will be interesting to see how they adjust. But the one team no one is talking about is the Houston Astros. Astros have the best pitching in the division, at least till the Cubs are healthy and in their ball park and average player can produce big numbers. Here are my predictions for the upcoming season.

 

1. Houston Astros

2. Chicago Cubs (Only if Wood and Prior stay healthy)

3. St Louis Cardinals

4. Cincinnati Reds

5. Pittsburgh Pirates

6. Milwaukee Brewers

825634066[/snapback]

 

 

Loss of Kent and Beltran really takes a load of od Astros offense. Bags and Biggio are aging, leaving only Berkman to carry the load.

 

Not worried about the Cubs, really like Prior and Woods, but Zambrano will be their best pitcher, but they will not win the Central.

[Gerry Bertier]

Loss of Kent and Beltran really takes a load of od Astros offense.  Bags and Biggio are aging, leaving only Berkman to carry the load.

 

Not worried about the Cubs, really like Prior and Woods, but Zambrano will be their best pitcher, but they will not win the Central.

825634071[/snapback]

 

Just wait and see, everyone counted the Astros out at the All-Star break and looked what happened. Great Manager and Front Office will bring in some bats, just wait and see.

[btowntigers]

Loss of Kent and Beltran really takes a load of od Astros offense.  Bags and Biggio are aging, leaving only Berkman to carry the load.

 

Not worried about the Cubs, really like Prior and Woods, but Zambrano will be their best pitcher, but they will not win the Central.

825634071[/snapback]

 

its gonna be kinda hard for Berkman to carry a team from the DL.

[Opperman]

Just wait and see, everyone counted the Astros out at the All-Star break and looked what happened. Great Manager and Front Office will bring in some bats, just wait and see.

825634082[/snapback]

 

They're as thin as the phone advertised in the banners up top occasionally, though.

 

Houston can win this division if nothing goes wrong. But I think they're the least-prepared of the contenders to withstand a couple of things going wrong. There's just not a lot of help ready to change roles and/or come up from AAA to keep them in it for a month and a half if/when somebody goes down.

[Opperman]

But as I said, neither has turned into an "ACE" yet?

825634061[/snapback]

 

They pretty much all pitched like aces for about three months, and they have some jewelry to show for it. And, again, it's a question of consistency with all of them, not talent. The 2004 Reds have nobody on the roster who has ace potential. The nominal "ace" of their staff is a league-average pitcher who appears to be the exact wrong fit for a homer-happy place like GAB. And also unlike Florida in 2003, they don't have any pitching prospects who look like they're likely amount to much...certainly none on the horizon for 2004 or 2005.

[gotmilk?]

They pretty much all pitched like aces for about three months, and they have some jewelry to show for it.  And, again, it's a question of consistency with all of them, not talent.  The 2004 Reds have nobody on the roster who has ace potential.  The nominal "ace" of their staff is a league-average pitcher who appears to be the exact wrong fit for a homer-happy place like GAB.  And also unlike Florida in 2003, they don't have any pitching prospects who look like they're likely amount to much...certainly none on the horizon for 2004 or 2005.

825634551[/snapback]

 

Eric Milton's career record:71-57

Willis, Beckett, Burnett combined career record:87-81

 

I consider Milton an ACE, some people dont, because he hasnt got the recognition some pitchers have but he is a very solid pitcher! If Ramon Ortiz can return to his form of 2002, look for him to be a major impact! Luke Hudson from UT come up late last season and looke very impressive, Starting 9 games, going 4-2 with a 2.42 era! And Joe Valentine at times last season looked untouchable out of the bullpen, but then also had alot of shaking outings! And Paul Wilson looked pretty decent last season(11-6) after having a mediocre career! I just feel like they have a few young arms that will put up some big numbers this season!

[Opperman]

Eric Milton's career record:71-57

Willis, Beckett, Burnett combined career record:87-81

 

I consider Milton an ACE, some people dont, because he hasnt got the recognition some pitchers have but he is a very solid pitcher! If Ramon Ortiz can return to his form of 2002, look for him to be a major impact! Luke Hudson from UT come up late last season and looke very impressive, Starting 9 games, going 4-2 with a 2.42 era! And Joe Valentine at times last season looked untouchable out of the bullpen, but then also had alot of shaking outings! And Paul Wilson looked pretty decent last season(11-6) after having a mediocre career! I just feel like they have a few young arms that will put up some big numbers this season!

825634860[/snapback]

 

Hudson may be ok if he can stay healthy, but he never has. Valentine, Wilson, etc. are nothing noteworthy. Ortiz is an average pitcher, no more no less.

 

As for Milton, all you're looking at is his W/L record. There's more to it than that. First off, I'd usually like to see my "ACE" post at least one ERA better than 4.32 in his career.

 

Milton is a pitcher who walks more batters than he should and gives up a lot of flyballs. You can get away with that in some ballparks, like Comerica National Park or the HHHDome. But when you go someplace with short fences, fly balls turn into runs...which is why he gave up 43 homers last year en route to an awe-inspiring 4.75 ERA.

 

I'll admit I was wrong if I am. Will you admit you're wrong when this year's Reds staff is one of the worst in MLB history?

[gotmilk?]

Hudson may be ok if he can stay healthy, but he never has.  Valentine, Wilson, etc. are nothing noteworthy.  Ortiz is an average pitcher, no more no less.

 

As for Milton, all you're looking at is his W/L record.  There's more to it than that.  First off, I'd usually like to see my "ACE" post at least one ERA better than 4.32 in his career.

 

Milton is a pitcher who walks more batters than he should and gives up a lot of flyballs.  You can get away with that in some ballparks, like Comerica National Park or the HHHDome.  But when you go someplace with short fences, fly balls turn into runs...which is why he gave up 43 homers last year en route to an awe-inspiring 4.75 ERA.

 

I'll admit I was wrong if I am.  Will you admit you're wrong when this year's Reds staff is one of the worst in MLB history?

825636092[/snapback]

 

Oh for sure, but I just believe the Reds will be alot better than what they are getting credit for! Sure all I am looking at is W/L, because thats what is all about! Sure he has a 4.75 era, but thats what you have to love, he still finds a way to put his team in a situation to win! But I really look for Milton to have a career year if he stays healthy, because the potential is there!

[Opperman]

Oh for sure, but I just believe the Reds will be alot better than what they are getting credit for! Sure all I am looking at is W/L, because thats what is all about! Sure he has a 4.75 era, but thats what you have to love, he still finds a way to put his team in a situation to win! But I really look for Milton to have a career year if he stays healthy, because the potential is there!

825636192[/snapback]

 

If by "put his team in position to win", you mean "is lucky enough to have an offense behind him scoring 5 runs a game".

 

Which of these pitchers pitched better?

Pitcher A: 233 IP, 187 H, 60 R, 49 ER, 8 HR, 33 BB, 159 K, 1.89 ERA, 17-11 record

Pitcher B: 230 IP, 215 H, 107 R, 98 ER, 28 HR, 77 BB, 160 K, 3.83 ERA, 18-10 record

 

Tell me, which one pitched better? Not which player's team did more for him, which one pitched better?

 

Pitcher B did it for a team that scored 759 runs in the season and went 88-74, going to the LCS.

Pitcher A did it for a team that scored 688 runs for the year and was 80-82.

[btowntigers]

If by "put his team in position to win", you mean "is lucky enough to have an offense behind him scoring 5 runs a game".

 

Which of these pitchers pitched better?

Pitcher A: 233 IP, 187 H, 60 R, 49 ER, 8 HR, 33 BB, 159 K, 1.89 ERA, 17-11 record

Pitcher B: 230 IP, 215 H, 107 R, 98 ER, 28 HR, 77 BB, 160 K, 3.83 ERA, 18-10 record

 

Tell me, which one pitched better?  Not which player's team did more for him, which one pitched better?

 

Pitcher B did it for a team that scored 759 runs in the season and went 88-74, going to the LCS.

Pitcher A did it for a team that scored 688 runs for the year and was 80-82.

825636252[/snapback]

 

great point, ive gotta an example from last season i'd like to throw into this conversation:

Pitcher A: 237 IP, 201 H, 71 ER, 264 K, 32 BB, .226 opponent BA, 2.70 ERA, 12-14 record

Pitcher B: 208 IP, 215 H, 116 ER, 158 K, 71 BB, .265 opponent BA, 5.01 ERA, 18-12 record

 

pitcher A is clearly by far the superior pitcher here but yet he had a losing record while pitcher B had horrible stats but still won 18 games. wins and losses dont mean jack its all about the other stats...specifically K/BB ratio, WHIP, and ERA. in this case, Ben Sheets(pitcherA) fell victim to playing for a pathetic Brewers team while Bartolo Colon(pitcherB) got more wins thanks to having one of the most explosive offenses in all of baseball behind him.

Edited April 2, 2005 by btowntigers

[Opperman]

They are supposedly throwing now without any problems. they dont have to be 100% to still pitch good...we all know what they can do when healthy and they still had era's under 4 last year when they were battling injuries and Prior put up Johan Santana numbers last September to close out the season.

825633221[/snapback]

 

...and Prior is on the DL to start the year.